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+--- Thread: What is the problem with the run game? (/thread-10447.html)
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What is the problem with the run game? - Shake n Blake - 03-13-2017
It seems people worry way more about sacks than our effectiveness running the football, and I'm not sure why. I did some research the other day and found that from 2006-2016 (11 seasons), the Bengals have been a run first team, with an average rank of 13th in rush attempts and 17th in pass attempts. Despite this identity as a running team, we've had an average rank of 25th (25th!) in yards per carry. For one season, that would be awful. For that to be the average ranking over an 11 year period - for a run first team - is hard to fathom.
So what do you think the biggest problem is? Discuss.
RE: What is the problem with the run game? - coachmcneil71 - 03-13-2017
Jeremy Hill sucks! That's the problem. Yes, the line needs help but as has been mentioned more than once; Rex managed to get positive yards when he carried the ball.
It's real simple, Rex is a pro. Hill is an out of shape,fumbling,pos that is just playing for the money. He is terrible!!
A new young back will help make this shitty oline look a lot better. Mark my words on this one!
RE: What is the problem with the run game? - Benton - 03-13-2017
I think it's a mix of RB coaching (we're on three in four years if I remember right, and none are exactly dynamos at that position), talent and blocking.
I've already mentioned the coaching. With the talent, we've had a mix of bad draft picks and guys were tried to get a little life out of. Since Rudy we haven't had a clear, effective and consistent back.
And blocking plays into that some, although I don't think as much as the first two. But a good line should be able to get even a bad back positive yardage on almost every play.
RE: What is the problem with the run game? - Wyche'sWarrior - 03-13-2017
There's one constant over that time period......
RE: What is the problem with the run game? - J24 - 03-13-2017
Its a combination of three different things.
1.) We use every RB the same way even though they have different strengths.
2.) Lack of deep speed without AJ Green Teams no we can't beat them deep so they just fill the box.
3.) Poor center play we really haven't had a good center since Barham left.
RE: What is the problem with the run game? - CageTheBengal - 03-13-2017
Honestly idk but I've always wondered. Btw what has Caskey done prior to coaching our RBs?
The 09 season we were stellar in the run game but that was just a moment in time. I know that Ced Benson was running like a mad man that season. Very aggressive. Bobbie Williams started on that line one of my favorite Bengals an absolute beast at run blocking.
Larry Johnson was on our team then too.
I almost forgot about that.
RE: What is the problem with the run game? - Wyche'sWarrior - 03-13-2017
(03-13-2017, 02:49 PM)CageTheBengal Wrote: Honestly idk but I've always wondered.
The 09 season we were stellar in the run game but that was just a moment in time. I know that Ced Benson was running like a mad man that season. Very aggressive. Bobbie Williams started on that line one of my favorite Bengals an absolute beast at run blocking.
Larry Johnson was on our team then too.
We ran a SHIT TON of unbalanced sets that season, remember Roland at "TE"? My memory may be fuzzy, but I think we ran more sets with a FB too. That made for easier sledding.
RE: What is the problem with the run game? - Yojimbo - 03-13-2017
I voted PA, but it's not just his schemes, it's the type of o-line he likes. We have no heavies, especially with Whit gone. Every lineman on the roster is 310 (Winston and Ced) or less. Nobody in the 325 - 340 range, which is the size you need to move these 320lb DTs off the line of scrimmage.
RE: What is the problem with the run game? - bengalhoel - 03-13-2017
2014: Cincinnati 132.8 yards a game 6th in the NFL
2015: Cincinnati 111.5 yards a game 13th in the NFL
2016: Cincinnati 110.6 yards a game 13th in the NFL
So we were excellent in 2014 and above average in 2015 and 2016 according to how much stock you put into rush yards a game.
These stats seem misleading because of the eye test last year , I figured we would be worse.
RE: What is the problem with the run game? - Yojimbo - 03-13-2017
(03-13-2017, 02:59 PM)bengalhoel Wrote: 2014: Cincinnati 132.8 yards a game 6th in the NFL
2015: Cincinnati 111.5 yards a game 13th in the NFL
2016: Cincinnati 110.6 yards a game 13th in the NFL
So we were excellent in 2014 and above average in 2015 and 2016 according to how much stock you put into rush yards a game.
These stats seem misleading because of the eye test last year , I figured we would be worse.
QB scrambles count? How many attempts per game? How many runs of zero or negative a game?
RE: What is the problem with the run game? - CageTheBengal - 03-13-2017
(03-13-2017, 02:51 PM)Wyche Wrote: We ran a SHIT TON of unbalanced sets that season, remember Roland at "TE"? My memory may be fuzzy, but I think we ran more sets with a FB too. That made for easier sledding.
Yeah I do now that you mention it (still can't stand that guy.) . We had Jeremi Johnson too I forget if that was when he was good or too fat for practice. That was a fun year to watch until the post-season we swept the AFC North and played the type of run first smash mouth football I enjoyed the most.
I forget who started on the o-line I think it was
Collins
Mathis
Cook
Williams
Whitworth
Did Whit ever play RT? I know Andre Smith was a rookie but I'm not sure he was starting yet Idk that seems like forever ago.
RE: What is the problem with the run game? - eoxyod - 03-13-2017
A mix of poor run blocking, running Hill with a square peg/round hole regarding his running style, and Hill also just being bad while getting the majority of snaps
RE: What is the problem with the run game? - Crowe - 03-13-2017
(03-13-2017, 02:30 PM)J24 Wrote: Its a combination of three different things.
1.) We use every RB the same way even though they have different strengths.
2.) Lack of deep speed without AJ Green Teams no we can't beat them deep so they just fill the box.
3.) Poor center play we really haven't had a good center since Barham left.
This right here.
We use Gio just like we use Hill and we seldomly use Burkhead. Hill isn't a shifty back, he's a ground n' pound rb that needs to run up the middle however our C is a turd so that makes running through any holes up the middle nearly impossible. Gio is a fast shifty back, but for some reason we try to pound the rock with him up the middle and Burkhead just makes plays, but hey let's not give him any meaningful snaps.
RE: What is the problem with the run game? - eoxyod - 03-13-2017
(03-13-2017, 02:59 PM)bengalhoel Wrote: 2014: Cincinnati 132.8 yards a game 6th in the NFL
2015: Cincinnati 111.5 yards a game 13th in the NFL
2016: Cincinnati 110.6 yards a game 13th in the NFL
So we were excellent in 2014 and above average in 2015 and 2016 according to how much stock you put into rush yards a game.
These stats seem misleading because of the eye test last year , I figured we would be worse.
It was worse than that on an efficiency basis is why. Rex Burkhead in limited touches had an awesome 41.9% DVOA while Hill had a -4.9% and Gio had a -2.0% DVOA (Gio also on less touches). So besides Rex we were just bad with our RBs
We ranked 19th in power running success, and 26th and 23rd regarding 2nd level yards and open field yards (Mostly Hill and OL inability to reach 2nd level)
RE: What is the problem with the run game? - Joelist - 03-13-2017
The problem with yards per game is a scramble or a splash run can hide the fact that we were horrible at consistently moving the pile. The best way to see that is to - for each game - remove the longest and shortest single runs and then work up yards per carry.
RE: What is the problem with the run game? - Wyche'sWarrior - 03-13-2017
(03-13-2017, 03:05 PM)CageTheBengal Wrote: Yeah I do now that you mention it (still can't stand that guy.) . We had Jeremi Johnson too I forget if that was when he was good or too fat for practice. That was a fun year to watch until the post-season we swept the AFC North and played the type of run first smash mouth football I enjoyed the most.
I forget who started on the o-line I think it was
Collins
Mathis
Cook
Williams
Whitworth
Did Whit ever play RT? I know Andre Smith was a rookie but I'm not sure he was starting yet Idk that seems like forever ago.
Shucks man, it was almost a decade ago! I can't remember if it was Johnson at FB, or if we had Chris Pressley by then.....
RE: What is the problem with the run game? - XenoMorph - 03-13-2017
(03-13-2017, 01:52 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: It seems people worry way more about sacks than our effectiveness running the football, and I'm not sure why. I did some research the other day and found that from 2006-2016 (11 seasons), the Bengals have been a run first team, with an average rank of 13th in rush attempts and 17th in pass attempts. Despite this identity as a running team, we've had an average rank of 25th (25th!) in yards per carry. For one season, that would be awful. For that to be the average ranking over an 11 year period - for a run first team - is hard to fathom.
So what do you think the biggest problem is? Discuss.
Blocking at the second level.... We hardly ever have the big runs.
& at the first level to some point..
RE: What is the problem with the run game? - BonnieBengal - 03-13-2017
I chose RB talent, but it's probably all of the above.
RE: What is the problem with the run game? - Bengal Dude - 03-13-2017
(03-13-2017, 03:40 PM)Wyche Wrote: Shucks man, it was almost a decade ago! I can't remember if it was Johnson at FB, or if we had Chris Pressley by then.....
2009 was Jeremi at FB. Of course, it was supposed to be Vakapuna vs. Pressley, but neither one stood out in OTAs/TC so that's why Jeremi was brought back. All 300 pounds of him.
RE: What is the problem with the run game? - milksheikh - 03-13-2017
RB that can't hit the holes quick enough and not a good running scheme...