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+--- Thread: Derek barnett? (/thread-10531.html)
Derek barnett? - Jpoore - 03-19-2017
Wondering why he is falling so far?? He was a consensus top 10 pick 5 weeks ago, but yet now hes at 17-18-19 in a lot of mocks and still dropping.... Is this due to his poor combine?? If he has an equally poor pro day will he fall to the second? Just a question ive been asking myself lately. Not a fan of his and dont want him but its still weird to me?
RE: Derek barnett? - wolfkaosaun - 03-19-2017
He's not as "athletic" as some of the other pass rushers. Doesn't have the same size and such. A lot of his tape he beats snap counts and basically 8.5 time outta 10 he beats you on the outside/corner. He doesn't really counter much with inside moves. But if he can refine that skill, he will be VERY good.
I still have him as my #2 pass rusher behind Garrett.
RE: Derek barnett? - Jpoore - 03-19-2017
(03-19-2017, 04:12 AM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: He's not as "athletic" as some of the other pass rushers. Doesn't have the same size and such. A lot of his tape he beats snap counts and basically 8.5 time outta 10 he beats you on the outside/corner. He doesn't really counter much with inside moves. But if he can refine that skill, he will be VERY good.
I still have him as my #2 pass rusher behind Garrett.
right but how is charlton still staying pat/slightly increasing while barnett still falls? Bc to me charlton looked like he had the agility of a tank at the combine.
RE: Derek barnett? - masonbengals fan - 03-19-2017
I may be proven wrong but I'd grab him @ 9 if I had the chance.
RE: Derek barnett? - CJD - 03-19-2017
The funny thing was he didn't even have a poor combine. His 3 cone drill was great for a DE (arguably the most important drill in the combine), he measured fine and had decent numbers despite being sick all week.
I can't find a valid reason why he's dropping. I think the media just finds one player every year to just shit on for no determinable reason and this year it's Barnett.
They did it with Anthony Barr in 2014 (dropping to anywhere between 16 and 30 in many mock drafts. He went 9th, where he was projected early on), they did it with Melvin Gordon in 2015, saying he'd fall to the 30th pick when he went 16th. They did it with Leonard Floyd in 2016 etc etc.
There always seems to be one player that the media picks on for being a tweener or not being athletic enough. But then they just get drafted where they were projected after the season. Because tape is the main thing that counts. And Barnett has stellar tape.
RE: Derek barnett? - masonbengals fan - 03-19-2017
Stellar tape and broke a lot of longstanding records.
RE: Derek barnett? - Whatever - 03-19-2017
(03-19-2017, 03:02 AM)Jpoore Wrote: Wondering why he is falling so far?? He was a consensus top 10 pick 5 weeks ago, but yet now hes at 17-18-19 in a lot of mocks and still dropping.... Is this due to his poor combine?? If he has an equally poor pro day will he fall to the second? Just a question ive been asking myself lately. Not a fan of his and dont want him but its still weird to me?
There's a number of issues causing him to drop. Scouts are questioning his ability to play 3-4 OLB, and he's not big or strong enough to play 3-4 DE or even reduce inside to 4-3 UT on passing downs. Basically, he's a pure 4-3 RDE and if that's not what you're looking for, he doesn't have much value. The lack of scheme versatility hurts his draft stock, big time, because his number of landing spots is limited. Think Grady Jarrett from a couple of years ago.
Another issue is that he's pretty much a one move wonder as a pass rusher. I haven't seen him beat a draftable guy with a bull rush, yet, and as others have touched on, he doesn't have an inside counter move. His only reliable move is rush outside and try to bend the corner, and even there, he is guessing at the snap count to try and make up for his lack of an elite get off. QB's who are good with the hard count will be able to neutralize him, to a degree. He can be undisciplined and I've seen multiple teams run screens right at him for TD's when he gets overaggressive and goes after the QB instead of recognizing the play.
On the plus side, the kid is a great finisher. I haven't seen a QB escape his grasp, yet.
Bottom line is, he will need at least a year in the weight room to develop the strength for an effective bull rush so he can mix up his rush. As a rookie, he is probably just a situational rusher, and will need the DT's to collapse the pocket to keep QB's from just stepping up in the pocket outside of his arc. He could be a fit for us, since we have Geno inside, but he just doesn't currently have enough ways to win for me to want him at 9. If he slides to the 2nd, I'd run that card up to the podium, though.
RE: Derek barnett? - Nati#1 - 03-19-2017
Not a fan. I only like Allen and Garrett in this draft and they won't fall to us. I'd take Reuben Foster even after the signing of Minter. To much of a talent to pass up.
RE: Derek barnett? - Hammerstripes - 03-19-2017
Man, stop with the whole "player (fill in the blank) is sliding"
Who says? The media? Nobody knows who is falling until the day of the draft. None of these media "experts" know anything about who is sliding.
The two guys that I trust the most - Pat Kirwan and Jim Miller had Barnett going at #4 in their first mock draft, so not everyone thinks he is sliding.
RE: Derek barnett? - Au165 - 03-20-2017
He is a guesser which scares people. He guesses the snap count and will sometimes guess on the hole and jump inside or outside. I think he is going to give up a lot of false starts against some of these guys with really good hard counts. Would I take him at #4? Sure. Is he my top pick? Na.
RE: Derek barnett? - fredtoast - 03-20-2017
I like Barnett a lot but I never saw him as the #4 overall pick.
And going from #9 to #18 is not really much of a drop at all. Basically guys in that range are all rated about the same and the piucks depend on the team needs.
Also, saying that a DE can "only beat guys ariound the edge" is like saying that a WR can "only run by DBs for the deep ball". You draft those players because they have skills you can't teach, then you teach them the rest.