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+--- Thread: What will Bengals do re: DE in the draft (/thread-10541.html)
What will Bengals do re: DE in the draft - fredtoast - 03-20-2017
Everydown 4-3 DEs who are strong enough to stop the run and quick enough to rush the passer are first round picks like CBs, LTs, and QBs. They are also one of the most expensive positions to fill in free agency. So it is very possible that the Bengals use the #9 pick on that position.
But it is also possible that the bengals could acquire a guy who is more of an edge rush specialist who would play in a rotation on passing downs. Even though Marvin has not had much luck finding one of these guys lately (Chris Carter, Dontay Moch) he has a history of looking for them (David Pollack, Ahmad Brooks, even Michael Johnson was a 265 lb DE/LB hybrid his first two seasons). Used to these guys would switch back and forth between DE and OLB, but now they just run in a new player on passing situations. The thing about these smaller guys is that they can be found in the second and third rounds instead of being so rare they are a "first round position".
Michael Johnson was still just 29 at the end of the '16 season and is under contract 2 more years for a total of only $8.1 million. That is a great bargain for a player who is still as productive as MJ, but I think he would be even better if he played fewer snaps. And we could upgrade the pass rush by bringing in a speed guys on passing downs.
So my position is. If the Bengals want an every down DE to immediately replace MJ then they need to do it with the #9 pick, but if they want to get a speed guy to rotate in on passing downs they can get one later in the draft.
The Poll question is "What do you think the BENGALS will do?" but you are free to expound on what YOU think they should do.
RE: What will Bengals do re: DE in the draft - leonardfan40 - 03-20-2017
I think either way we will see basically the same thing this year, and that is a rookie rotating in on passing downs for MJ. Don't see MJ going anywhere so even if we do go DE at 9 he will probably be a rush specialist his first season. I don't get why everyone wants MJ cut, especially this year when we'd only save like $2 mil which wouldn't come close to being enough to upgrade the position.
Idk if they go for a 3 down DE at 9 or a pure rusher later, think like always it depends on who is available and how they view the guys. I'm not convinced there will be a guy left at pick 9 who is worth the pick, and I don't see the Bengals reaching for a lesser talent just to fill the need, especially since they like MJ so much. One I like at 9 if available is Barnett, but I've seen very mixed opinions on him so who knows where he'll go and how the bengals view him
What I don't want is a guy who plays outside on running downs but can only be effective rushing from the inside. We need an EDGE rusher imo I'll be more than happy to see what hardison, billings, or Clarke can do to provide pass rush next to Geno. We need another player who can get around the edge because we really only have Dunlap at this point
RE: What will Bengals do re: DE in the draft - Crowe - 03-20-2017
I think they need a new full time DE to take MJ's starting role and a situational pass rusher. Last year we had Dunlap and Atkins and that's it. We see teams like Pittsburgh and Seattle thrive with rushing the qb because they cause confusion with using so many pass rushers whether it's the dline or their linebackers. We need to utilize a pass rushing lb like Devonte fields or Hassan Reddick or some other player to go along with a traditional defensive end like Harris or Charlton. Personally I'm hoping for Thomas, a traditional DE and a pass rushing LB, that would help take our defense over the top.
RE: What will Bengals do re: DE in the draft - Benton - 03-20-2017
They should have picked up better linemen the last couple. I'm only saying that because that's still my second biggest gripe.
My whining out of the way, I think the Bengals SHOULD go with a someone to rotate with MJ. At this point I don't care if it's a run stopper or a rusher. Anyone who can throw the offense off their plan. I want every opposing QB to come to the line, look at who we changed up with, shake his head and audible.
But I think the Bengals WILL go with whoever they think is the best shot at a playmaker at RB or WR. It's unlikely, but I think if Fournette or Williams is there, they go with one of those two. And I wouldn't rule out CB, but I think they'll go CB in 2 or 3... which is where I think they'll also look for DL.
RE: What will Bengals do re: DE in the draft - eoxyod - 03-20-2017
If Thomas is there at 9, they will take him. If he isn't, I can imagine they will trade down and take Charlton or get one in the 2nd regardless of BPA
RE: What will Bengals do re: DE in the draft - Yojimbo - 03-20-2017
Big question is, does the team see Clarke as the MJ run stoping replacement, so they are going to be gong for the pass rush specialist first? i.e Barnett. Then later, take a more well rounded DE that can play outside and inside like a Gillberry. I think if Thomas or Allen are still there at 9, it's a pretty easy choice, if they are gone and the team's best option is Barnett, could still be fine if they see Clarke taking on a bigger run stopping role.
RE: What will Bengals do re: DE in the draft - Nate (formerly eliminate08) - 03-20-2017
(03-20-2017, 11:47 AM)leonardfan40 Wrote: I think either way we will see basically the same thing this year, and that is a rookie rotating in on passing downs for MJ. Don't see MJ going anywhere so even if we do go DE at 9 he will probably be a rush specialist his first season. I don't get why everyone wants MJ cut, especially this year when we'd only save like $2 mil which wouldn't come close to being enough to upgrade the position.
Idk if they go for a 3 down DE at 9 or a pure rusher later, think like always it depends on who is available and how they view the guys. I'm not convinced there will be a guy left at pick 9 who is worth the pick, and I don't see the Bengals reaching for a lesser talent just to fill the need, especially since they like MJ so much. One I like at 9 if available is Barnett, but I've seen very mixed opinions on him so who knows where he'll go and how the bengals view him
What I don't want is a guy who plays outside on running downs but can only be effective rushing from the inside. We need an EDGE rusher imo I'll be more than happy to see what hardison, billings, or Clarke can do to provide pass rush next to Geno. We need another player who can get around the edge because we really only have Dunlap at this point
I agree with you here LF40. MJ should not be cut, he would still be solid in a rotation. Barnett is the guy i want
most right now even if he did most of his damage against lower competition he has natural pass rushing moves
that like you said only Dunlap has on this team right now.
With Dunlap, Barnett, MJ, Clarke and Hardison rotating we could be very good at End. Just need that other guy
opposite Dunlap. Then having Atkins and Billings in the middle = very exciting.
RE: What will Bengals do re: DE in the draft - fredtoast - 03-20-2017
I have no problem with giving Clarke a bigger role. He actually had more sacks per snap played than Dunlap did last year. But we still need to add talent.
RE: What will Bengals do re: DE in the draft - fredtoast - 03-20-2017
(03-20-2017, 04:40 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: With Dunlap, Barnett, MJ, Clarke and Hardison rotating we could be very good at End.
Hope the Bengals don't try to turn Hardison into a DE/DT hybrid. He needs to get bigger and stronger and concentrate 100% on DT.
RE: What will Bengals do re: DE in the draft - THE PISTONS - 03-20-2017
I could see Cook, Fournette or a DE.
The fact that they signed Minter to me indicates that they won't go with Foster who I like.
I wonder what the Bengals would do if a highly projected Safety or CB falls?
RE: What will Bengals do re: DE in the draft - PDub80 - 03-20-2017
(03-20-2017, 05:13 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I could see Cook, Fournette or a DE.
The fact that they signed Minter to me indicates that they won't go with Foster who I like.
I wonder what the Bengals would do if a highly projected Safety or CB falls?
No way they go Safety in round 1. They just signed two young ones to long term deals.
CB would be mind blowing since they have real holes elsewhere along the depth chart and several young CB 1st rounders and Shaw as it is.
RE: What will Bengals do re: DE in the draft - PDub80 - 03-20-2017
I think DE is very deep this draft and that the DE spot will be addressed after round 2.
Actually think they go...
- WR Davis 1st
- RB Mixon 2nd
- RG Moton 3rd
- DE 4th
RE: What will Bengals do re: DE in the draft - SunsetBengal - 03-20-2017
I took the selection of both A and B to mean A or B, if A doesn't happen. So, I went with both A and B.
My reasoning is because the Bengals need another true, 3 down DE. Speed rusher is a niche position, and a luxury at this moment that they cannot afford. MJ is adequate, Clarke has looked better. With Clarke, he is still the off the bench guy. Should MJ get injured, or continue to diminished production, Clarke may not be ready to go from being a spot player to full time. Once a body gets used to being the part time, it's tough to swing the metabolism back to full time. (see Wallace Gilberry, when we tried to just plug him into full time, when MJ was with the Buccaneers)
RE: What will Bengals do re: DE in the draft - BengalsRocker - 03-20-2017
(03-20-2017, 06:24 PM)PDub80 Wrote: No way they go Safety in round 1. They just signed two young ones to long term deals.Passing on Malik Hooker if he was there would be a mistake though IMO.
CB would be mind blowing since they have real holes elsewhere along the depth chart and several young CB 1st rounders and Shaw as it is.
I really don't think the picks they have gotten have filled any real holes.
It sure would be nice to see a guy actually get on the field and make some plays for once.
I get what you're saying about it not really being a priority but a guy like Hooker could really make up for losing Nelson back there and help the young CBs as well.
RE: What will Bengals do re: DE in the draft - BengalsRocker - 03-20-2017
Fresh legs and a new presence at DE is exactly what this team has needed.
Let's just hope the DT & DE on the other side of the line can be bolstered.
I wouldn't mind seeing MJ in rotation. Not getting as many snaps as he did last season... for sure.
Whether that's a rookie DE or someone else on roster we'll just have to see.
RE: What will Bengals do re: DE in the draft - SunsetBengal - 03-20-2017
(03-20-2017, 07:15 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: Passing on Malik Hooker if he was there would be a mistake though IMO.
I really don't think the picks they have gotten have filled any real holes.
It sure would be nice to see a guy actually get on the field and make some plays for once.
I get what you're saying about it not really being a priority but a guy like Hooker could really make up for losing Nelson back there and help the young CBs as well.
Would be huge mistake to pass on Malik Hooker at 9. He is the consensus #4 or #5 overall talent in this draft. He is one of those players at his position, that only comes along once every 5-10 years. Not because of his overwhelming speed, size or hitting ability, but his intelligence as a football player and knack for being in perfect position to make a play on the ball. This is a guy that within his second year in the league, gives your defense a new identity.
If he's still on the board at 9, that means that a few teams definitely reached for need, over best on the board.
RE: What will Bengals do re: DE in the draft - Fan_in_Kettering - 03-20-2017
This may sound like somewhat circuitous logic but hear me out please. I'm with Fred that the Cincinnati defensive line needs more speed and better backfield penetration but I believe the Bengals have already made one move in that direction and could make another in the draft.
Signing linebacker Kevin Minter will make the defensive line better and drafting Malik Hooker will provide better downfield coverage which will result in more sacks. That's what's missing: Reggie Nelson's ability to create coverage sacks which could be restored with Hooker at free safety. As for Kevin Minter, I saw film where he came off the edges like a defensive end when necessary.
RE: What will Bengals do re: DE in the draft - PDub80 - 03-20-2017
(03-20-2017, 07:15 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: Passing on Malik Hooker if he was there would be a mistake though IMO.
I really don't think the picks they have gotten have filled any real holes.
It sure would be nice to see a guy actually get on the field and make some plays for once.
I get what you're saying about it not really being a priority but a guy like Hooker could really make up for losing Nelson back there and help the young CBs as well.
(03-20-2017, 07:30 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Would be huge mistake to pass on Malik Hooker at 9. He is the consensus #4 or #5 overall talent in this draft. He is one of those players at his position, that only comes along once every 5-10 years. Not because of his overwhelming speed, size or hitting ability, but his intelligence as a football player and knack for being in perfect position to make a play on the ball. This is a guy that within his second year in the league, gives your defense a new identity.
If he's still on the board at 9, that means that a few teams definitely reached for need, over best on the board.
Maybe they trade down out of that spot if someone wants him?
The Bengals and marvin do NOT place a premium on the S position. they just don't. Plus they have money tied up in two young guys long term. if Hooker comes in and starts that means the Bengals will have a 3rd string young guy being payed starters money. I just can't see it.
Hooker has also only had one year of production.
If the kid is that good, he's that good. I won't be honked off no matter who they take.
RE: What will Bengals do re: DE in the draft - SunsetBengal - 03-20-2017
(03-20-2017, 07:53 PM)PDub80 Wrote: Maybe they trade down out of that spot if someone wants him?
The Bengals and marvin do NOT place a premium on the S position. they just don't. Plus they have money tied up in two young guys long term. if Hooker comes in and starts that means the Bengals will have a 3rd string young guy being payed starters money. I just can't see it.
Hooker has also only had one year of production.
If the kid is that good, he's that good. I won't be honked off no matter who they take.
Hooker only had one year, in a showcase role. His talent is what it is. As for the Bengals not "valuing" the S position, the fact that they gave Iloka the contract that they did, proves otherwise. Hooker is the type that makes Williams completely tradable. Besides, it wouldn't make the 3rd man the "third string", as two S are always on the field, would make him the first backup, or the wildcard in a 3 S set.
RE: What will Bengals do re: DE in the draft - Shake n Blake - 03-20-2017
Dunlap = 2nd round
M. Johnson = 3rd round
Hunt = 2nd round
Clarke = 3rd round
Just saying. That seems to be the spot where the Bengals look at pass rushers/DE's.