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+--- Thread: Need to train college o lineman (/thread-11092.html)
Need to train college o lineman - bengals67 - 05-01-2017
Not a fan of Alexander or Bodine.
Nor am I as expert in football as many others who post on this board.
But I am hearing a consensus that college o linemen are not as pro ready as in the past because of all the spread offenses run by college football teams.
I hope this proves to be true as it relates to Fisher and Og.
The ball is clearly in Alexander's court to coach those two players up this year.
Our draft will be off the charts great if Og and Fisher raise the level of their play this year and even just get to an average level for NFL OTs.
RE: Need to train college o lineman - Sled21 - 05-01-2017
(05-01-2017, 10:26 AM)bengals67 Wrote: Not a fan of Alexander or Bodine.
Nor am I as expert in football as many others who post on this board.
But I am hearing a consensus that college o linemen are not as pro ready as in the past because of all the spread offenses run by college football teams.
I hope this proves to be true as it relates to Fisher and Og.
The ball is clearly in Alexander's court to coach those two players up this year.
Our draft will be off the charts great if Og and Fisher raise the level of their play this year and even just get to an average level for NFL OTs.
I think Fish is going to do well if they leave him alone and let him play one position. I'm hoping Ced has some pride, and let's the drubbing he received last year motivate him to improve. Word is he has put in a tremendous off season of workouts. Time will tell....
RE: Need to train college o lineman - Au165 - 05-01-2017
I know a guy who played 5 years in the NFL at RT relatively recently (think 2006/07 was last year). He is adamant that Paul Alexander is one of the most well respected O line coaches in the league. He said from a technical stand point there really isn't anyone better which is why he is part of the premier offensive line conference that is held each year (can't remember the name). I think too often people get upset with his projects, but in reality he doesn't pick the guys only gives his opinion. If we need a Center and they won't give us one until the 4th then he is going to work with what he gets. When he has been given high picks they have actually turned out pretty good.
As for the whole Bodine thing, if you look at his 2015 PFF grade to 2017 he literally was twice as good. If we can get that same jump from last year to this year he will be fine.
RE: Need to train college o lineman - bengals67 - 05-01-2017
(05-01-2017, 10:34 AM)Au165 Wrote: I know a guy who played 5 years in the NFL at RT relatively recently (think 2006/07 was last year). He is adamant that Paul Alexander is one of the most well respected O line coaches in the league. He said from a technical stand point there really isn't anyone better which is why he is part of the premier offensive line conference that is held each year (can't remember the name). I think too often people get upset with his projects, but in reality he doesn't pick the guys only gives his opinion. If we need a Center and they won't give us one until the 4th then he is going to work with what he gets. When he has been given high picks they have actually turned out pretty good.
As for the whole Bodine thing, if you look at his 2015 PFF grade to 2017 he literally was twice as good. If we can get that same jump from last year to this year he will be fine.
Alexander has always had his defenders. My expertise at football is not great. But watching the Bengals for a long time, we never seem to have as good an offensive line as the Steelers or the Pats.
It seems our pass blocking is better than run blocking which may be related to Andy's quick release. It is also a bad circumstance since Marvin has always wanted us to be a run first team.
We have been very poor on short yardage running for as long as I can remember.
Bodine went from being one of the worst center in the league to maybe 25th or so but still way below average.
From my unlearned perspective, he is particularly bad against 3-4 defenses, which just happens to be the system run by Steelers and Ravens. His better games seem to be against teams who run a 4-3 system like our system.
I hope he improves. I would love for Bodine to become an above average NFL center. I will be pleasantly surprised.
RE: Need to train college o lineman - milksheikh - 05-01-2017
I don't get it...
We had one of the best offensive lines like 2-3 years ago and now everyone wants to get rid of Paul Alexander?
I don't get it....
RE: Need to train college o lineman - THE PISTONS - 05-01-2017
While people bash Alexander...I'm not sure that Bodine is solely his issue. I think the bigger issue is that the Bengals don't invest in the Center position.
Alexander was basically handed a 4th Round pick and forced to start him at Center.
To put that in perspective, the team doesn't even expect 1st Round picks to start...yet a 4th Round pick is drafted and handed the starting C position.
We've had an issue at Center basically since Rich Braham retired.
RE: Need to train college o lineman - Au165 - 05-01-2017
(05-01-2017, 10:47 AM)bengals67 Wrote: Alexander has always had his defenders. My expertise at football is not great. But watching the Bengals for a long time, we never seem to have as good an offensive line as the Steelers or the Pats.
It seems our pass blocking is better than run blocking which may be related to Andy's quick release. It is also a bad circumstance since Marvin has always wanted us to be a run first team.
We have been very poor on short yardage running for as long as I can remember.
Bodine went from being one of the worst center in the league to maybe 25th or so but still way below average.
From my unlearned perspective, he is particularly bad against 3-4 defenses, which just happens to be the system run by Steelers and Ravens. His better games seem to be against teams who run a 4-3 system like our system.
I hope he improves. I would love for Bodine to become an above average NFL center. I will be pleasantly surprised.
The guy I am referencing never played for Paul Alexander, so while the guy may defend Alexander he has no direct ties to him other than watching him speak and what others in the league told him. As for Bodine I pointed it out in another thread, According to PFF (I know I know) he basically doubled his score from 2015-2016, if he can get a little more improvement he could have a solid season this year.
RE: Need to train college o lineman - bengals67 - 05-01-2017
(05-01-2017, 10:51 AM)milksheikh Wrote: I don't get it...
We had one of the best offensive lines like 2-3 years ago and now everyone wants to get rid of Paul Alexander?
I don't get it....
with all due respect, I do not agree that we had one of the best o lines 2-3 years ago.
we have good scores on pass blocking which is impacted by Dalton's quick release.
Run blocking has been an issue for a long time in my opinion. Maybe I am wrong but that is my opinion.
And it is an issue since Marvin wants to establish the run.
RE: Need to train college o lineman - Sled21 - 05-01-2017
(05-01-2017, 10:55 AM)Au165 Wrote: The guy I am referencing never played for Paul Alexander, so while the guy may defend Alexander he has no direct ties to him other than watching him speak and what others in the league told him. As for Bodine I pointed it out in another thread, According to PFF (I know I know) he basically doubled his score from 2015-2016, if he can get a little more improvement he could have a solid season this year.
There was also the Sports Illustrated thing where he was voted Oline coach of the year, decade or some sort of thing. Certain things get said on this board and get parroted enough that people start thinking they are true. Like the piano man jokes. What the hell does the fact he plays piano have to do with anything, Dick LeBeau plays guitar but no one calls him guitar man. It's nonsense, but there's really no point in even trying to address it, it takes a life of it's own. Paul Alexander is one of the most respected line coaches in the league..... everywhere but here.
RE: Need to train college o lineman - ochocincos - 05-01-2017
(05-01-2017, 11:51 AM)Sled21 Wrote: There was also the Sports Illustrated thing where he was voted Oline coach of the year, decade or some sort of thing. Certain things get said on this board and get parroted enough that people start thinking they are true. Like the piano man jokes. What the hell does the fact he plays piano have to do with anything, Dick LeBeau plays guitar but no one calls him guitar man. It's nonsense, but there's really no point in even trying to address it, it takes a life of it's own. Paul Alexander is one of the most respected line coaches in the league..... everywhere but here.
I thought it was because PA looks kinda like Billy Joel?
![[Image: PaulAlexanderHS12.jpg]](http://s3.amazonaws.com/sidearm.sites/cortlandreddragons.com/images/2012/10/18/PaulAlexanderHS12.jpg)
![[Image: billyJoel.jpg]](http://www.nndb.com/people/683/000022617/billyJoel.jpg)
RE: Need to train college o lineman - Sled21 - 05-01-2017
(05-01-2017, 11:58 AM)ochocincos Wrote: I thought it was because PA looks kinda like Billy Joel?
RE: Need to train college o lineman - Truck_1_0_1_ - 05-01-2017
(05-01-2017, 12:45 PM)Sled21 Wrote:
That was awesome.
Always have been indifferent towards PA, but that was great insight and a great piece.
RE: Need to train college o lineman - Sled21 - 05-01-2017
(05-01-2017, 01:07 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: That was awesome.
Always have been indifferent towards PA, but that was great insight and a great piece.
I'm not a PA cheerleader or anything, but like a lot of other people on this team, he is not near as bad as portrayed by some....
RE: Need to train college o lineman - eoxyod - 05-01-2017
He most definitely isn't that bad. The fans of every team in the league sans the Cowboys think their OL is trash because they give up more than 1 sack a year. This isn't to disparage Andy but there are most definitely a lot of sacks that are his fault other than 2015.
Regarding players that Paul pounds his fist for in the draft: Just because someone is a good coach does NOT mean they are a good evaluator. Even if Paul were the best evaluator, everyone has misses and Paul has had more offensive linemen play well here than not. I know fans want to always hate coaches, but Paul isn't really the biggest problem in terms of coaching here
RE: Need to train college o lineman - THE PISTONS - 05-01-2017
(05-01-2017, 01:08 PM)Sled21 Wrote: I'm not a PA cheerleader or anything, but like a lot of other people on this team, he is not near as bad as portrayed by some....
We've had a pretty good hit rate for 1st and 2nd Round lineman since he's been here. Ced is the only real potential bust that I can remember.
Bodine was a 4th Round pick and starts in the NFL from Day 1. That's not terrible either.
RE: Need to train college o lineman - Sled21 - 05-01-2017
Yep... the list of lineman that played here under him is pretty impressive....
RE: Need to train college o lineman - ochocincos - 05-01-2017
(05-01-2017, 01:42 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Yep... the list of lineman drafted in rounds 1-2 that played here under him is pretty impressive....
Fixed.