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Dispute or Agree? - THE PISTONS - 12-06-2017
These are the PFF grades for the players so far this year. Post if you dispute or agree. Keep in mind this isn't like Madden ratings and is based on actual play in games.
Offense
Dalton - Average (Almost Above Average)
AJ Green - High Quality - #4 WR
Lafell - Poor - #97 WR
Mixon - Above Average - #14 RB
Kroft - Average - #15 TE
Bodine - Poor - #32 Center
Boling - Average
Hopkins - Poor
Smith - Poor - #51 Tackle
Ogbuehi - Poor - #71 Tackle
Fisher - Poor - #66 Tackle
That's 6 guys rated Poor on Offense that have played A LOT this year. Mixon and Green are bright spots.
Defense
Jones - Poor - #91 CB
Kirkpatrick - Poor - Poor - #98 CB
Jackson - Above Average - #19 CB
Dennard - Average - #41 CB
Williams - Below Average
Iloka - Average - #39 Safety
Vigil - Poor - #83 LB - Our worst rated starter on the entire team.
Burfict - Above Average - #9 LB
Minter - Below Average
Billings - Poor - #105 DI
Atkins - Elite - #2 DI
Johnson - Average - #62 Edge
Dunlap - Above Average - #29 Edge
Lawson - Above Average - #30 Edge
Our defense looks better with only 4 starters rated Poor. Atkins is our only player having an Elite season.
Overall 10 guys who start are rated Poor. You're not going to win a ton of games with that.
RE: Dispute or Agree? - SunsetBengal - 12-06-2017
I'm going to dispute your assessment that Vigil is the worst rated starter on the team. Bodine is rated #32, out of 32 starting Centers in the NFL. Vigil is ranked 83rd, and there are much more than 83 starting LBs in the NFL.
RE: Dispute or Agree? - TheLeonardLeap - 12-06-2017
Looks about right.
Not sure I would put AJ at #4 with all the drops he's had this year, some being crucial situations or causing turnovers, but he'd still be in the same category.
Kroft seems rated too high at #15, but I haven't been paying a ton of attention league-wide, so maybe TE play is down this year, or maybe they have his run blocking graded high.
(12-06-2017, 09:10 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I'm going to dispute your assessment that Vigil is the worst rated starter on the team. Bodine is rated #32, out of 32 starting Centers in the NFL. Vigil is ranked 83rd, and there are much more than 83 starting LBs in the NFL.
He meant rated as far as their 0-100 scale goes, not positional ranking. But yeah, it is pretty amazing Bodine 32nd, and Ogbuehi is 71st (so there's two full teams worth of tackles ahead of him and then some).
RE: Dispute or Agree? - Derrick - 12-06-2017
Well, where to start?
Is it really poor draft scouting? Is it complete ineptness at coaching up these picks; Is it NO high quality FAs?
I contend it is ALL OF THE ABOVE!
RE: Dispute or Agree? - snowy - 12-06-2017
I don't put a lot of faith in PFF. That said, I might rate Hopkins a little closer to Average than Poor, but Poor Plus or Average Minus sounds about right. I like him, though, and I'm glad he's getting a chance. The rest of it sounds about right. I guess the rest of the team doesn't play enough to be graded.
RE: Dispute or Agree? - SunsetBengal - 12-06-2017
(12-06-2017, 09:11 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Looks about right.
Not sure I would put AJ at #4 with all the drops he's had this year, some being crucial situations or causing turnovers, but he'd still be in the same category.
Kroft seems rated too high at #15, but I haven't been paying a ton of attention league-wide, so maybe TE play is down this year, or maybe they have his run blocking graded high.
He meant rated as far as their 0-100 scale goes, not positional ranking. But yeah, it is pretty amazing Bodine 32nd, and Ogbuehi is 71st (so there's two full teams worth of tackles ahead of him and then some).
Yep, every starter and 7 backups. Hey, he was also a 1st round pick. Then when you think about how John Ross has dominated the league this year, you gotta wonder who the hell is making these 1st round selections?? At least WJ3 is panning out, thus far...
RE: Dispute or Agree? - Synric - 12-06-2017
(12-06-2017, 09:10 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I'm going to dispute your assessment that Vigil is the worst rated starter on the team. Bodine is rated #32, out of 32 starting Centers in the NFL. Vigil is ranked 83rd, and there are much more than 83 starting LBs in the NFL.
Vigil also graded decent according to PFF in games he was the WILL Linebacker and grades out poor in games as the SAM. So that has to be taken into consideration.
Also to the OP: Smith grades mostly poor in games he was playing musical chairs and has really come on in games he's actually went full time at RT....except for the Broncos Von Miller has his number.
RE: Dispute or Agree? - SunsetBengal - 12-06-2017
(12-06-2017, 09:21 PM)Synric Wrote: Vigil also graded decent according to PFF in games he was the WILL Linebacker and grades out poor in games as the SAM. So that has to be taken into consideration.
Also to the OP: Smith grades mostly poor in games he was playing musical chairs and has really come on in games he's actually went full time at RT....except for the Broncos Von Miller has his number.
We can try to sugarcoat it anyway we want to, but let's face it. We suck on OL this year. They didn't "magically" get better, as the year went on. DL could have been much better, as well. However, for some odd reason, MJ continues to receive time at DE...
RE: Dispute or Agree? - Socal Bengals fan - 12-06-2017
cut MJ, Bodine, Lafell, Vigil, Kirkpatrick n Pacman.. look how much better we instantly become
RE: Dispute or Agree? - bengalfan74 - 12-06-2017
Agree for the most part
RE: Dispute or Agree? - J24 - 12-06-2017
Offense- not really a surprise that 5 out of the 6 guys rated poor where on the Offensive line.
Defense- I said we shouldn't have signed Pacman in 2016 and we did and we shouldn't have signed Kirkpatrick to long term deals. Don't know if the soft zone Defense is because of them or is what is causing there down fall.
RE: Dispute or Agree? - corpjet - 12-06-2017
Id say its pretty close, I do think WJIII would be higher with more playing time...
Dennard has been solid all year and is doing good when finally given a chance
RE: Dispute or Agree? - THE PISTONS - 12-06-2017
(12-06-2017, 09:19 PM)snowy Wrote: I don't put a lot of faith in PFF. That said, I might rate Hopkins a little closer to Average than Poor, but Poor Plus or Average Minus sounds about right. I like him, though, and I'm glad he's getting a chance. The rest of it sounds about right. I guess the rest of the team doesn't play enough to be graded.
So while people may disagree with PFF...you have to admit that these rankings are pretty accurate.
I mean for a large portion of the season our line was giving up direct pressure up the middle...sometimes unblocked.
As far as the rest of the team...a lot of them do have rankings...but I compiled this list by hand and just did the guys who generally start.
RE: Dispute or Agree? - THE PISTONS - 12-06-2017
(12-06-2017, 09:21 PM)Synric Wrote: Vigil also graded decent according to PFF in games he was the WILL Linebacker and grades out poor in games as the SAM. So that has to be taken into consideration.
Also to the OP: Smith grades mostly poor in games he was playing musical chairs and has really come on in games he's actually went full time at RT....except for the Broncos Von Miller has his number.
Smith and Hopkins numbers have indeed improved some lately so they're playing better.
Ced and Vigils numbers have been declining so they have and had been playing worse in Vigils case.
I'd have to think that Vigil would improve with playing the system more.
Dispute or Agree? - BenZoo2 - 12-06-2017
My sense is those grades feel about right. I admit to not knowing what factors go into their ratings.
What this does show is a lack of scouting, coaching and development that doesn’t keep up with the losses this team keeps incurring in free agency. The draft can only re stock so much so fast
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RE: Dispute or Agree? - THE PISTONS - 12-06-2017
(12-06-2017, 09:28 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: We can try to sugarcoat it anyway we want to, but let's face it. We suck on OL this year. They didn't "magically" get better, as the year went on. DL could have been much better, as well. However, for some odd reason, MJ continues to receive time at DE...
Yeah...you have to wonder why Westerman hasn't been given a shot.
But yeah..start Jackson and bench Pacman or Kirkpatrick and the secondary gets better.
We need a DT by Atkins and Clemson DT Christian Wilkens is projected around our pick. He is nasty and disruptive. He'd be a great fit...but IF we took him my fear would be that they'd let Atkins walk.
The big picture is we have 10 guys that start or play a lot rated Poor. That's not the formula for a competitive team. Maybe 2-3 guys could be hidden...but not that many. And I didn't even look at guys like Shaw and Fej.
RE: Dispute or Agree? - J24 - 12-07-2017
(12-06-2017, 11:59 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yeah...you have to wonder why Westerman hasn't been given a shot.What they really need is a guy that can fill the 3T when Geno goes to the bench not so much a nose to play next to them. Part of the problem is when Glasgow, Sims, and Billings are in the game their playing next to one another and not with Geno.
But yeah..start Jackson and bench Pacman or Kirkpatrick and the secondary gets better.
We need a DT by Atkins and Clemson DT Christian Wilkens is projected around our pick. He is nasty and disruptive. He'd be a great fit...but IF we took him my fear would be that they'd let Atkins walk.
The big picture is we have 10 guys that start or play a lot rated Poor. That's not the formula for a competitive team. Maybe 2-3 guys could be hidden...but not that many. And I didn't even look at guys like Shaw and Fej.
RE: Dispute or Agree? - THE PISTONS - 12-07-2017
(12-07-2017, 12:14 AM)Jakeypoo Wrote: What they really need is a guy that can fill the 3T when Geno goes to the bench not so much a nose to play next to them. Part of the problem is when Glasgow, Sims, and Billings are in the game their playing next to one another and not with Geno.
Yeah...in a sense with all the Poor starters we have it could really open the draft up. We could use upgrades at Offensive Line, WR2, Defensive Line, LB, and maybe CB.
The big free agents after next year are Dunlap, Atkins, and Dennard...and as we know the Bengals like to draft with an eye on losing those guys.
With Willis and Lawson, I doubt they go DE.
RE: Dispute or Agree? - Hammerstripes - 12-07-2017
Lawson at #30 edge? No way on that one. He's much higher than that with the limited time he plays.
RE: Dispute or Agree? - BengalChris - 12-07-2017
(12-06-2017, 08:56 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: These are the PFF grades for the players so far this year. Post if you dispute or agree. Keep in mind this isn't like Madden ratings and is based on actual play in games.
Offense
Dalton - Average (Almost Above Average)
AJ Green - High Quality - #4 WR
Lafell - Poor - #97 WR
Mixon - Above Average - #14 RB
Kroft - Average - #15 TE
Bodine - Poor - #32 Center
Boling - Average
Hopkins - Poor
Smith - Poor - #51 Tackle
Ogbuehi - Poor - #71 Tackle
Fisher - Poor - #66 Tackle
That's 6 guys rated Poor on Offense that have played A LOT this year. Mixon and Green are bright spots.
Defense
Jones - Poor - #91 CB
Kirkpatrick - Poor - Poor - #98 CB
Jackson - Above Average - #19 CB
Dennard - Average - #41 CB
Williams - Below Average
Iloka - Average - #39 Safety
Vigil - Poor - #83 LB - Our worst rated starter on the entire team.
Burfict - Above Average - #9 LB
Minter - Below Average
Billings - Poor - #105 DI
Atkins - Elite - #2 DI
Johnson - Average - #62 Edge
Dunlap - Above Average - #29 Edge
Lawson - Above Average - #30 Edge
Our defense looks better with only 4 starters rated Poor. Atkins is our only player having an Elite season.
Overall 10 guys who start are rated Poor. You're not going to win a ton of games with that.
Offense
Dalton - Average (Almost Above Average) [Given the state of the OL, I give Dalton the benefit of the doubt]
AJ Green - High Quality - #4 WR [Agreed]
Lafell - Poor - #97 WR [Agreed - Production way down this year]
Mixon - Above Average - #14 RB [Agreed]
Kroft - Average - #15 TE [Has played better than I expected he would, he's better than the eternally injured Eifert]
Bodine - Poor - #32 Center [#32 out of 32 - Yes, it wasn't my imagination. Agreed]
Boling - Average [I guess, maybe - certainly not above average]
Hopkins - Poor [Agreed]
Smith - Poor - #51 Tackle [Agreed]
Ogbuehi - Poor - #71 Tackle [Agreed]
Fisher - Poor - #66 Tackle [Agreed]
That's 6 guys rated Poor on Offense that have played A LOT this year. Mixon and Green are bright spots.
Defense
Jones - Poor - #91 CB [Disagree - I think he's better than #91]
Kirkpatrick - Poor - Poor - #98 CB [Agreed]
Jackson - Above Average - #19 CB [Agreed - except for the play where standing there watching the Steeler run past him, otherwise he pretty good]
Dennard - Average - #41 CB [Agreed]
Williams - Below Average [Agreed]
Iloka - Average - #39 Safety [Agreed]
Vigil - Poor - #83 LB - Our worst rated starter on the entire team. [Disagree on being the worst start on the entire team, but otherwise agree]
Burfict - Above Average - #9 LB [Agree - he'd be higher if he didn't get suspended each year]
Minter - Below Average [Agreed]
Billings - Poor - #105 DI [Don't know]
Atkins - Elite - #2 DI [Agreed]
Johnson - Average - #62 Edge [Agreed]
Dunlap - Above Average - #29 Edge [Agreed]
Lawson - Above Average - #30 Edge [Agreed]