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+--- Thread: We need a Strong Draft........ (/thread-14934.html)
We need a Strong Draft........ - corpjet - 02-19-2018
lets be honest we have ALOT of holes to fill this year............more than ever we are going to need some "kids" to step up.....
not to mention our last 3-4 drafts have been less than stellar and its starting to show on our lack of quality depth......and then there is the whole AJM debacle and now the need for a quality back up QB......
we all know we wont sign any studs in FA, so the draft is how we are going to have to do this......not to mention Marvin needs to change his ways about not playing/trusting rookies.......
one might say I'm very nervous!
RE: We need a Strong Draft........ - SunsetBengal - 02-19-2018
Honestly, I don't think all that we need can be had in one draft. I mean, even if they "kill it", there are still going to be holes to fill. A great draft might yield what, two maybe three day one starters? Add in a couple more "solid" contributors, and a few developmental guys. And, that is if they really nail it.
What really needs to be done is some serious roster management. Getting rid of a few "dead weight" contracts, signing quality FAs to satisfy a couple of immediate needs, AND the motherlode of a draft.
RE: We need a Strong Draft........ - Nate (formerly eliminate08) - 02-19-2018
What we needed was to move on from Paul Alexander and get a decent O-line coach IMHO.
Frank Pollack is more than decent. If he can coach up our one weakness this team is tough.
Just have to keep Geno, Dunlap draft a top Center and bring in a good LT.
I know we probably are not going to make the big moves in FA that get us over the hump though.
This is evident from the past.
If we make a big move like signing Nate Solder, Ryan Jensen or Zach Fulton i will believe the fluff regarding FA.
But i doubt we do that smart move knowing our owner.
RE: We need a Strong Draft........ - sandwedge - 02-19-2018
(02-19-2018, 07:06 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Honestly, I don't think all that we need can be had in one draft. I mean, even if they "kill it", there are still going to be holes to fill. A great draft might yield what, two maybe three day one starters? Add in a couple more "solid" contributors, and a few developmental guys. And, that is if they really nail it.
What really needs to be done is some serious roster management. Getting rid of a few "dead weight" contracts, signing quality FAs to satisfy a couple of immediate needs, AND the motherlode of a draft.
Well said! Every spot on the o-line, except maybe 1 needs upgraded. That's 4 right there. Go to the other side of the ball, 1 LB and a safety needed. 6 altogether that I can think of. After about Rd3 you are usually looking at depth players unless someone falls thru the crack at draft time.
RE: We need a Strong Draft........ - Nate (formerly eliminate08) - 02-19-2018
(02-19-2018, 07:40 PM)sandwedge Wrote: Well said! Every spot on the o-line, except maybe 1 needs upgraded. That's 4 right there. Go to the other side of the ball, 1 LB and a safety needed. 6 altogether that I can think of. After about Rd3 you are usually looking at depth players unless someone falls thru the crack at draft time.
I think you are forgetting about players progressing. One of Westerman or Redmond should be decent under Pollack.
Boling is atleast solid. I bet we bring back Andre who at the very least is solid depth at RT.
Jordan Evans should get better at LB who has great speed and length and can deliver the boom.
Our Safeties are not as bad as some on here claim and Fej and Brandon Wilson are young.
RE: We need a Strong Draft........ - BenZoo2 - 02-19-2018
(02-19-2018, 07:06 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Honestly, I don't think all that we need can be had in one draft. I mean, even if they "kill it", there are still going to be holes to fill. A great draft might yield what, two maybe three day one starters? Add in a couple more "solid" contributors, and a few developmental guys. And, that is if they really nail it.
What really needs to be done is some serious roster management. Getting rid of a few "dead weight" contracts, signing quality FAs to satisfy a couple of immediate needs, AND the motherlode of a draft.
That's exactly what's needs to happen. But we will be lucky to get a third of that, and that's the draft. Ebenezer's to loyal to his dead weight, free agency won't be delivering much. Boosting the leagues smallest scouting would help, too
RE: We need a Strong Draft........ - SunsetBengal - 02-19-2018
(02-19-2018, 08:05 PM)BenZoo2 Wrote: That's exactly what's needs to happen. But we will be lucky to get a third of that, and that's the draft. Ebenezer's to loyal to his dead weight, free agency won't be delivering much. Boosting the leagues smallest scouting would help, too
If ever there was a year to go with some wishful thinking, this would be it. Both MJ and Adam Jones can be released with minimal impact in "dead money". Even though it is highly unlikely, that is the perfect situation for an anomaly like that to happen.
RE: We need a Strong Draft........ - Nate (formerly eliminate08) - 02-19-2018
(02-19-2018, 08:23 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: If ever there was a year to go with some wishful thinking, this would be it. Both MJ and Adam Jones can be released with minimal impact in "dead money". Even though it is highly unlikely, that is the perfect situation for an anomaly like that to happen.
Yeah these guys are overpaid and Adam is over the hill and MJ only plays DT good anymore.
Let these guys go, re-sign Geno and Dunlap, sign Nate Solder, bring back Andre and the draft is freed up IMHO.
I don't think we are far off as you say Sunset, but it is unlikey we make all these moves i agree.
RE: We need a Strong Draft........ - Benton - 02-19-2018
With Marvin's philosophy of not playing younger players until he has to, the last couple drafts have been detrimental.
We've had a lot of good years because we had good drafts. When someone retired, parted ways or whatever, we just pulled up a younger guy. But we've had some misses lately and that's not boding well, especially since we're (whether Marvin wants to admit it or not) rebuilding. Our better players (AJ, Carlos, Geno) likely only have 2-3 more years at the same level they're at now. Even some of our more mid-tier guys like MJ, we aren't really seeing their replacements coming along. It could be they're on the roster and just not getting snaps, but it's not inspiring a lot of confidence.
RE: We need a Strong Draft........ - Nate (formerly eliminate08) - 02-19-2018
(02-19-2018, 08:41 PM)Benton Wrote: With Marvin's philosophy of not playing younger players until he has to, the last couple drafts have been detrimental.
We've had a lot of good years because we had good drafts. When someone retired, parted ways or whatever, we just pulled up a younger guy. But we've had some misses lately and that's not boding well, especially since we're (whether Marvin wants to admit it or not) rebuilding. Our better players (AJ, Carlos, Geno) likely only have 2-3 more years at the same level they're at now. Even some of our more mid-tier guys like MJ, we aren't really seeing their replacements coming along. It could be they're on the roster and just not getting snaps, but it's not inspiring a lot of confidence.
Definately true that if we think we are going to build through the Draft we damn sure should play those guys.
But i could see guys like Lawson, Ross, Willis, WJ3, Billings, Malone, Glasgow, Evans coming along soon.
These guys all have talent. They are just young and Ross, WJ3 and Billings all pretty much missed their rookie season.
RE: We need a Strong Draft........ - SunsetBengal - 02-19-2018
(02-19-2018, 08:37 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yeah these guys are overpaid and Adam is over the hill and MJ only plays DT good anymore.
Let these guys go, re-sign Geno and Dunlap, sign Nate Solder, bring back Andre and the draft is freed up IMHO.
I don't think we are far off as you say Sunset, but it is unlikey we make all these moves i agree.
Even if those things were to happen, draft still isn't as "freed up" as we might like it to be. Andre Smith isn't young, and he's rarely held up for an entire season. = Still need to draft OT, early. We still are faced with needs at C and RG, now Westerman and Redmond might be the guys for the job, I don't know, just hoping. If they do pan out, there goes our bench. Still have to draft to replace those guys on the bench. However, I'm not big on TJ Johnson. In his limited action, I see him topping out at the bottom of "average", if thrust into a starting role.
Team still needs to draft a serious LB, in a big way. Could use a Safety, but after the top 2 or 3 in the draft, it's all developmental guys.
Draft being "freed up" would mean being able to take the very best player available, which we cannot. I'd love for them to be able to take a Vita Vea, or a WR, or even a TE, but the team is handcuffed by way too many needs.
RE: We need a Strong Draft........ - Nate (formerly eliminate08) - 02-19-2018
(02-19-2018, 08:49 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Even if those things were to happen, draft still isn't as "freed up" as we might like it to be. Andre Smith isn't young, and he's rarely held up for an entire season. = Still need to draft OT, early. We still are faced with needs at C and RG, now Westerman and Redmond might be the guys for the job, I don't know, just hoping. If they do pan out, there goes our bench. Still have to draft to replace those guys on the bench. However, I'm not big on TJ Johnson. In his limited action, I see him topping out at the bottom of "average", if thrust into a starting role.
Team still needs to draft a serious LB, in a big way. Could use a Safety, but after the top 2 or 3 in the draft, it's all developmental guys.
Draft being "freed up" would mean being able to take the very best player available, which we cannot. I'd love for them to be able to take a Vita Vea, or a WR, or even a TE, but the team is handcuffed by way too many needs.
Well i mean the first pick is freed up somewhat if we sign Solder and bring back Andre.
We can draft whoever at 12 and draft our Center in the 2nd. One of Ragnow, Price or Daniels should be there.
Roquan Smith or Edmunds at 12, Ragnow in the 2nd.
Shaw being moved to Safety could solve that problem. I like Vea but i think Billings will be back to who i thought he would be this year.
Took Geno another year after his ACL tear to get back to himself. Glasgow looked alright in limited action.
RE: We need a Strong Draft........ - SunsetBengal - 02-19-2018
(02-19-2018, 08:56 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Well i mean the first pick is freed up somewhat if we sign Solder and bring back Andre.
We can draft whoever at 12 and draft our Center in the 2nd. One of Ragnow, Price or Daniels should be there.
Roquan Smith or Edmunds at 12, Ragnow in the 2nd.
Shaw being moved to Safety could solve that problem. I like Vea but i think Billings will be back to who i thought he would be this year.
Took Geno another year after his ACL tear to get back to himself. Glasgow looked alright in limited action.
Honestly? I don't think that's going to happen. Last year, we were all hell-bent for the Bengals taking Pat Elfien. He was there, they passed.
The Front Office simply does not value the position enough to spend a high pick on a good one.
RE: We need a Strong Draft........ - Nate (formerly eliminate08) - 02-19-2018
(02-19-2018, 09:06 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Honestly? I don't think that's going to happen. Last year, we were all hell-bent for the Bengals taking Pat Elfien. He was there, they passed.
The Front Office simply does not value the position enough to spend a high pick on a good one.
Yeah, been pushing for a Center early for like 10 years.
I would think eventually they would come to the inevitable conclusion that a QB needs to be able to step into a pocket.
Just kind of hoping bringing in Pollack would help them see the light.
He had the best Center in the league in Dallas, kind of a big reason they have been successful the last 3 years.
Mack went to the Falcons and instantly they were so much better. Could go on about how much value a good Center brings...
RE: We need a Strong Draft........ - SunsetBengal - 02-19-2018
(02-19-2018, 09:11 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yeah, been pushing for a Center early for like 10 years.
I would think eventually they would come to the inevitable conclusion that a QB needs to be able to step into a pocket.
Just kind of hoping bringing in Pollack would help them see the light.
He had the best Center in the league in Dallas, kind of a big reason they have been successful the last 3 years.
Mack went to the Falcons and instantly they were so much better. Could go on about how much value a good Center brings...
All of us diehards that care about smashmouth football have...
RE: We need a Strong Draft........ - RASCAL - 02-19-2018
(02-19-2018, 07:06 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Honestly, I don't think all that we need can be had in one draft. I mean, even if they "kill it", there are still going to be holes to fill. A great draft might yield what, two maybe three day one starters? Add in a couple more "solid" contributors, and a few developmental guys. And, that is if they really nail it.
What really needs to be done is some serious roster management. Getting rid of a few "dead weight" contracts, signing quality FAs to satisfy a couple of immediate needs, AND the motherlode of a draft.
that stuff right there is for championship minds, DEFINATELY NOT HERE!!
RE: We need a Strong Draft........ - Nate (formerly eliminate08) - 02-19-2018
(02-19-2018, 09:14 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: All of us diehards that care about smashmouth football have...
True.
(02-19-2018, 09:20 PM)RASCAL Wrote: that stuff right there is for championship minds, DEFINATELY NOT HERE!!
Don't want those damn Championships.
Who would want that shit?
RE: We need a Strong Draft........ - BengalFanInNJ - 02-19-2018
Knowing what we know of Boling, Westerman and Redmond, if Quenton Nelson is available do you grab him? If you do, do you put Boling at one of the Tackles and leave Westerman/Redmond in at the other Guard (provided Nelson beats them out in camp)?
RE: We need a Strong Draft........ - Nate (formerly eliminate08) - 02-19-2018
(02-19-2018, 09:33 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: Fredrick did not start out at center on the Cowboys.
I believe he played guard first.
Unfortunately I just don't think our team has the luxury of time for plugging a high drafted center in at guard.
They need someone who can grasp it quick at the NFL level.
That's why I'm on the Price bandwagon.
I'm also sick of our team basically ignoring the Big 10 for many years.
That's not me being a homer. You just see lots of them in the league and contributing.
Burkhead isn't a world-beater but even he is contributing. He's a 6th rounder!
Devon Still was a flop out of Penn State but with good reason. His mind was just not in the game.
Does take a bit for a Center to get accustomed to the NFL but i betcha immediately a guy like Price, Ragnow or Daniels
would be an upgrade over what we have seen the last dozen years or so. I agree, just look around, the Big 10 has put
out some fine players as of late.
Was all for Elflien last year and look what happened though.
Just hoping with Pollack, a different mind will help guide these people to the light. Center is extremely valuable in
growing a Superbowl contender.
Hint, Jason Kelce grabbing two Patriot pass rushers to ward off a sack in the Superbowl. Eagles win.
RE: We need a Strong Draft........ - Nate (formerly eliminate08) - 02-19-2018
(02-19-2018, 09:33 PM)BengalFanInNJ Wrote: Knowing what we know of Boling, Westerman and Redmond, if Quenton Nelson is available do you grab him? If you do, do you put Boling at one of the Tackles and leave Westerman/Redmond in at the other Guard (provided Nelson beats them out in camp)?
You take Nelson if he is there, no question.
He can play either Guard spot. As good as Boling looked at LT the last game he wasn't that good against the Lions.
I just think Og was so terrible it made Boling look great. Still, nice to see him play in a pinch at LT.
That is not an easy switch.