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+--- Thread: Has pitching improved for the Reds? (/thread-16606.html)
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Has pitching improved for the Reds? - guyofthetiger - 08-10-2018
We know the ugly start of the season this year. Pitching was horrible. Now, we are coming towards the final stretch and IMO the pitching is still horrible. We've had a few games that looked promising. However, the pitchers have fallen back into their losing ways of late. If the Reds want to contend in 2019, they better shore up the pitching. I keep thinking they are trying to throw as hard as they can instead of using better control at slower speeds. Bronson Arroyo had some good stuff and never was considered a hard thrower. Why can't the pitching coach see it too?
Has pitching improved for the Reds? - Storer50 - 08-10-2018
Very simple. Homer Bailey is a soul sucking vampire. He leaves, team gets good. He comes back, everything turns to crap.
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RE: Has pitching improved for the Reds? - Yojimbo - 08-10-2018
Riggleman is keeping a short leash on starters. He wants to avoid the starters facing batters for a third time. It's an interesting strategy, but you can burn out your bullpen.
RE: Has pitching improved for the Reds? - bengalfan74 - 08-10-2018
NO
The problem with the Reds starting pitching is they have a team full of bottom of the rotation starters !
Castillo is 6-9 with a 4.91 ERA
Mahle is 7-9 with a 4.95 ERA
Romano is 7-9 with a 4.94 ERA
DeScalfani 5-3 with a 4.98 ERA
None of these guys is thus far, better than a #5 starter !
Bailey is 1-9 with a 6.19 ERA
And just flat out needs to go. I had a tiny sliver of hope when he first came back but it was false hope, he's never getting better.
Harvey is 5-5 with a 4.79 ERA
Maybe, possibly he's a #4 starter but I'm not so sure ?
Are any of the top three ever going to develop into better than a 5th starter ? I dunno perhaps there's a number three among them ? But I don't believe we have anybody in the Majors that's even a #2. Will Hunter Greene be ? Let's hop but he's probably at least 2 years away.
If this team is to have any hope of competing next season or the year after they have to go out and get a true #1 and a true #2
RE: Has pitching improved for the Reds? - guyofthetiger - 08-11-2018
Last night Disco pitched a 3 hit shutout in 7 innings. The Reds won 3-0. The problem is there are a few good games pitched followed by lots of bad games. Tonight will probably be batting practice. That's the story of this season.
RE: Has pitching improved for the Reds? - bengalfan74 - 08-13-2018
(08-11-2018, 10:33 AM)guyofthetiger Wrote: Last night Disco pitched a 3 hit shutout in 7 innings. The Reds won 3-0. The problem is there are a few good games pitched followed by lots of bad games. Tonight will probably be batting practice. That's the story of this season.
That's the problem with the entire staff really. 1 good game 2 bad games, 2 good games 3 bad games. They're up and down like a yo-yo ! That's why they hover around a 5 ERA. Harvey might be a #4 possibly a #3 ?
But the other guys are pretty much #5's, will one break out ?
RE: Has pitching improved for the Reds? - Yojimbo - 08-14-2018
Bailey strikes again. 1-10 6.63 era.
RE: Has pitching improved for the Reds? - Hoofhearted - 08-14-2018
(08-10-2018, 08:54 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: NO
The problem with the Reds starting pitching is they have a team full of bottom of the rotation starters !
Castillo is 6-9 with a 4.91 ERA
Mahle is 7-9 with a 4.95 ERA
Romano is 7-9 with a 4.94 ERA
DeScalfani 5-3 with a 4.98 ERA
None of these guys is thus far, better than a #5 starter !
Bailey is 1-9 with a 6.19 ERA
And just flat out needs to go. I had a tiny sliver of hope when he first came back but it was false hope, he's never getting better.
Harvey is 5-5 with a 4.79 ERA
Maybe, possibly he's a #4 starter but I'm not so sure ?
Are any of the top three ever going to develop into better than a 5th starter ? I dunno perhaps there's a number three among them ? But I don't believe we have anybody in the Majors that's even a #2. Will Hunter Greene be ? Let's hop but he's probably at least 2 years away.
If this team is to have any hope of competing next season or the year after they have to go out and get a true #1 and a true #2
Castillo and Mahle have top 3 potential. Luis only has 216 innings pitched, and Tyler has 129. Both under 25. Sometimes it takes a little while for them to figure out how to get batters out at the MLB level. The bottom of the rotation is a different story honestly.
RE: Has pitching improved for the Reds? - Hoofhearted - 08-14-2018
(08-14-2018, 11:30 AM)Yojimbo Wrote: Bailey strikes again. 1-10 6.63 era.
The Reds did him 0 favors by stranding 4,000 runners. I think they left the bases juiced two times?
5.1 IP, 10 H, 5 ER, 2 BB, 5 K. is not horrible, but certainly not great, either.
RE: Has pitching improved for the Reds? - fredtoast - 08-14-2018
(08-10-2018, 08:54 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Are any of the top three ever going to develop into better than a 5th starter ?
In DeScalfino's first two seasons with the Reds ('15-'16) he had over 50 starts and 300 innings pitched with a 3.77 ERA.
He will never be a #1, but if he regains that form he will be better than anything we have right now.
RE: Has pitching improved for the Reds? - bengalfan74 - 08-14-2018
(08-14-2018, 01:46 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: Castillo and Mahle have top 3 potential. Luis only has 216 innings pitched, and Tyler has 129. Both under 25. Sometimes it takes a little while for them to figure out how to get batters out at the MLB level. The bottom of the rotation is a different story honestly.
(08-14-2018, 01:52 PM)fredtoast Wrote: In DeScalfino's first two seasons with the Reds ('15-'16) he had over 50 starts and 300 innings pitched with a 3.77 ERA.
He will never be a #1, but if he regains that form he will be better than anything we have right now.
I have some hope that from the bunch we have now we can fill positions 3, 4, and 5 in the rotation. But they're gonna have to go out and get 1 and 2 if they hope to contend next season. I doubt Greene is gonna be ready next year.
RE: Has pitching improved for the Reds? - fredtoast - 08-14-2018
(08-14-2018, 03:07 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I have some hope that from the bunch we have now we can fill positions 3, 4, and 5 in the rotation. But they're gonna have to go out and get 1 and 2 if they hope to contend next season. I doubt Greene is gonna be ready next year.
Agree.
RE: Has pitching improved for the Reds? - Goalpost - 08-14-2018
(08-14-2018, 03:07 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I have some hope that from the bunch we have now we can fill positions 3, 4, and 5 in the rotation. But they're gonna have to go out and get 1 and 2 if they hope to contend next season. I doubt Greene is gonna be ready next year.
There is so much risk involved with pitchers. Felix Hernandez is now a bullpen pitcher struggling to throw 90. Guys like Darvish and Cueto cant maintain their health. And of course our own Bailey has also been a big whiff.
RE: Has pitching improved for the Reds? - Hoofhearted - 08-15-2018
(08-14-2018, 03:07 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I have some hope that from the bunch we have now we can fill positions 3, 4, and 5 in the rotation. But they're gonna have to go out and get 1 and 2 if they hope to contend next season. I doubt Greene is gonna be ready next year.
Somewhat agree. I don't think they need to go out and get two top of the line pitchers. It would be nice to go out and find one, but the price to pay for that is absolutely hefty (ever seen the top 10 pitchers salaries?). Add to the fact pitchers are also very risky, I think they should see how Luis and Tyler end up by next year. Not saying it's a bad idea, just that I think there's some potential there for a very good good number two with Luis and number three with Tyler. Fill out rest with good pitchers, good pen, and good positions players and see what we have after that.
Remember Luis missed spring training because of the birth of his first child, too. So I doubt he's got to work on a lot of mechanical and location improvements.
RE: Has pitching improved for the Reds? - Hoofhearted - 08-15-2018
(08-14-2018, 10:28 PM)Goalpost Wrote: There is so much risk involved with pitchers. Felix Hernandez is now a bullpen pitcher struggling to throw 90. Guys like Darvish and Cueto cant maintain their health. And of course our own Bailey has also been a big whiff.
Agreed. Just look at our own Hunter Greene and how he's already got a UCL (aka as Tommy John) at 18 years old. Pitchers are the most important piece, but also the riskiest.
RE: Has pitching improved for the Reds? - guyofthetiger - 08-15-2018
The Reds should learn something from the Cleveland pitchers this week. They know how to pitch a game. The Reds offense struggling to get a hit. The Indians are a good hitting team. When the Reds pitch, they are a great hitting team.
RE: Has pitching improved for the Reds? - grampahol - 08-16-2018
Robsteve is and always will be a career minor league phenom, but in the bigs he's a total dud.. He's like the practice squad player who absolutely dominates during preseason against the other teams scrubs, but once the lights come on they completely disappear . Isn't Bobsteve from Estonia?
RE: Has pitching improved for the Reds? - TheLeonardLeap - 08-17-2018
(08-14-2018, 01:49 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: The Reds did him 0 favors by stranding 4,000 runners. I think they left the bases juiced two times?
5.1 IP, 10 H, 5 ER, 2 BB, 5 K. is not horrible, but certainly not great, either.
Almost a run per inning and over two baserunners per inning isn't horrible in your books?
RE: Has pitching improved for the Reds? - Hoofhearted - 08-18-2018
(08-17-2018, 02:27 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Almost a run per inning and over two baserunners per inning isn't horrible in your books?
Not for Home Run bailey. Have you seen his stat line this season? It’s who Homer is now.
RE: Has pitching improved for the Reds? - grampahol - 08-20-2018
Well , the standings alone indicate they've improved some, but not enough. They're just not consistent .. Just looking at the era's of the pitching staff of 1990 team 4 starters had eras under 4.00 with only Ron Robinson @ 4.88..
One really odd one was in the bullpen, Rosario Rodriguez with a 6.10 era and a 9-0 record, heck of a lucky setup with the 'nasty boys' behind him.. These pitchers need consistency more than anything else. They're capable, but actually achieving it is a whole different story .
Bailey is the carved in stone dud among them.. He can throw ok the first few innings, but the wheels fall off after that and I don't think he has it in him to fix it anymore..