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Have to fix 3rd down defense - fredtoast - 09-17-2018
After 2 weeks our defense ranks 26th in yards allowed and 30th in first downs. Even with multiple teams playing overtime games the Bengals defense is still dead last in plays ran by the opponent.
It all boils down to 3rd down conversions. Overall our defense ranks 7th in yards per play allowed. (9th passing, 2nd rushing) But we are dead last in the league in 3rd down conversion percentage. We are the only team in the league allowed over fifty percent (54%).
Our offense is 11th in yards per play, but only 6 teams have fewer offensive snaps than we do.
Got to work on our 3rd down defense.
RE: Have to fix 3rd down defense - CornerBlitz - 09-17-2018
Definitely a concern. If I remember correctly, this was also an issue last season. Considering our pass rush and solid secondary, it's a very surprising issue.
RE: Have to fix 3rd down defense - Sled21 - 09-17-2018
Brown and Burfict will be back soon, and that will help with 3rd down conversions.
RE: Have to fix 3rd down defense - Luvnit2 - 09-17-2018
I agree, if they are going to be legit, they have to win 3rd downs on defense and offense. Burfict out and Brown getting injured did not help, but have to overcome injury. We have to overcome injury also and the 2 PI calls against Dennard and Dre on 3rd down were iffy at best. Both resulted in 3rd down first downs and both also resulted in TD's.
RE: Have to fix 3rd down defense - Go Cards - 09-17-2018
Luck threaded the needle on several of those and Flacco did his Ben impression throwing with defenders draped all over him
Believe it will improve.
RE: Have to fix 3rd down defense - Nate (formerly eliminate08) - 09-17-2018
(09-17-2018, 11:36 AM)fredtoast Wrote: After 2 weeks our defense ranks 26th in yards allowed and 30th in first downs. Even with multiple teams playing overtime games the Bengals defense is still dead last in plays ran by the opponent.
It all boils down to 3rd down conversions. Overall our defense ranks 7th in yards per play allowed. (9th passing, 2nd rushing) But we are dead last in the league in 3rd down conversion percentage. We are the only team in the league allowed over fifty percent (54%).
Our offense is 11th in yards per play, but only 6 teams have fewer offensive snaps than we do.
Got to work on our 3rd down defense.
Yes, this is our weakness right now, have to get it figured out. Strange with our pass rushers and Secondary.
Need better coverage from our LB's. Need Burfict and Brown back.
RE: Have to fix 3rd down defense - bengalfan74 - 09-17-2018
If I remember correctly we were among the league's worst at giving up 3rd and long last season. Gotta get better !
RE: Have to fix 3rd down defense - CJD - 09-17-2018
Yea, Andrew Luck really messed up our 3rd down numbers so far haha. Hopefully we improve them starting next week. We had a decent showing against Flacco, holding him to 44%, but we need to improve on that further. As the pass rush continues to get home, that number will go down. And our pass rushers look like they're just getting started!
RE: Have to fix 3rd down defense - 3wt - 09-17-2018
I'm sure there are a number of reasons for this, but I think scheme figures into the problem. In an effort to keep everything in front of them they end up giving them the yardage and the time of possession.
I think it would be worth giving less cushion and seeing if we can get off the field quicker - especially with tight ends.
RE: Have to fix 3rd down defense - Wyche'sWarrior - 09-17-2018
(09-17-2018, 11:45 AM)CornerBlitz Wrote: Definitely a concern. If I remember correctly, this was also an issue last season. Considering our pass rush and solid secondary, it's a very surprising issue.
Your memory is correct. It looked initially like it might have more to do with the putrid offense early on not giving them enough of a breather. However, as the offense improved down the stretch, the defense still struggled on 3rd down, and we're still seeing it. Doesn't make a lot of sense. It has to be a LB issue.
RE: Have to fix 3rd down defense - SunsetBengal - 09-17-2018
(09-17-2018, 04:32 PM)Wyche Wrote: Your memory is correct. It looked initially like it might have more to do with the putrid offense early on not giving them enough of a breather. However, as the offense improved down the stretch, the defense still struggled on 3rd down, and we're still seeing it. Doesn't make a lot of sense. It has to be a LB issue.
Good point about the LB play, aside from Burfict is on top of his game, this has been an issue for quite some time. However, CJD touched on a good point, about the defense holding the Ravens to 44% in that game. From my point of view, it looked like Nickerson stepped up and had a pretty good game. I hope that is a sign of development, rather than just him having a great game.
RE: Have to fix 3rd down defense - impactplaya - 09-17-2018
as the season goes on the pass rush will improve with Hubbard Willis figuring out how to finish off the qb.
Vigil is a bit improved over last year but he cant cover a tightbend to save his life.
hes the weak spot of the defense will continue to get picked on....on 3rd down.
RE: Have to fix 3rd down defense - Wyche'sWarrior - 09-17-2018
(09-17-2018, 04:35 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Good point about the LB play, aside from Burfict is on top of his game, this has been an issue for quite some time. However, CJD touched on a good point, about the defense holding the Ravens to 44% in that game. From my point of view, it looked like Nickerson stepped up and had a pretty good game. I hope that is a sign of development, rather than just him having a great game.
I feel like Hardy has steadily improved since he arrived here. He's not the fastest or strongest guy out there, but he seems to have good instincts. If just a little of his old man rubbed off on him, he could become a solid contributor.
RE: Have to fix 3rd down defense - Joelist - 09-17-2018
Zimmer used to handle this by having the D jam the receivers at the line and thus throw the timing off on those quick slants and such.
RE: Have to fix 3rd down defense - bonesaw - 09-17-2018
Vontaze will change some of the 3rd and fives to 3rd and nine's. But on the other hand I think Austin doesn't want to give up the big play so I think we might have to get used to a little more yardage and first downs given up than we'd like.
RE: Have to fix 3rd down defense - jfkbengals - 09-17-2018
Simple solution...
Take away the ball on first or second down!
RE: Have to fix 3rd down defense - Bilbo Saggins - 09-17-2018
(09-17-2018, 04:46 PM)Joelist Wrote: Zimmer used to handle this by having the D jam the receivers at the line and thus throw the timing off on those quick slants and such.
Mhmmm. A nice press and all of a sudden the qb has to hold onto the ball a little longer than he wanted to, or can't throw it into exactly the same spot that he wanted to.
Side note: I've always wondered why slot receicers/TEs aren't pressed at the line by rushers and then passed off to coverage dudes. I'd bet that a Hubbard or a Lawson could jam a receiver pretty good before going at the QB.
RE: Have to fix 3rd down defense - jfkbengals - 09-17-2018
(09-17-2018, 10:33 PM)Bilbo Saggins Wrote: Mhmmm. A nice press and all of a sudden the qb has to hold onto the ball a little longer than he wanted to, or can't throw it into exactly the same spot that he wanted to.
Side note: I've always wondered why slot receicers/TEs aren't pressed at the line by rushers and then passed off to coverage dudes. I'd bet that a Hubbard or a Lawson could jam a receiver pretty good before going at the QB.
Your not putting your rushers out there if they are detached, as it is too long of a path to the QB.
When they are inline, it is expected in the offensive play that they will be engaged, often they are chipping in some way before they release.
RE: Have to fix 3rd down defense - J24 - 09-18-2018
(09-17-2018, 08:35 PM)bonesaw Wrote: Vontaze will change some of the 3rd and fives to 3rd and nine's. But on the other hand I think Austin doesn't want to give up the big play so I think we might have to get used to a little more yardage and first downs given up than we'd like.
Not saying you are wrong but that would be a dumbass strategy on his part. No reason for our defense to play conservative like that.
RE: Have to fix 3rd down defense - SHRacerX - 09-18-2018
(09-17-2018, 11:36 AM)fredtoast Wrote: After 2 weeks our defense ranks 26th in yards allowed and 30th in first downs. Even with multiple teams playing overtime games the Bengals defense is still dead last in plays ran by the opponent.
It all boils down to 3rd down conversions. Overall our defense ranks 7th in yards per play allowed. (9th passing, 2nd rushing) But we are dead last in the league in 3rd down conversion percentage. We are the only team in the league allowed over fifty percent (54%).
Our offense is 11th in yards per play, but only 6 teams have fewer offensive snaps than we do.
Got to work on our 3rd down defense.
I think these stats are the result of their desire to not give up "chunk" plays by being beat over the top. While I understand this somewhat, especially in the Raven's game with such a lead, I believe that if you wait for today's QBs to miss a five or ten yard pass that leads to a tipped ball and, potentially, and INT that you will be waiting a long time.
One other point about the two QBs we faced: Luck goes 6'5" and Flacco goes 6'6". Even with a pass rush in their face, they can still see down the field.
I can't wait to see this defense with Burfict back if he comes back as the Burfict we know and love. Fearing the first tackle he makes, though.