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If I told you once, I told you twice... - jj22 - 05-07-2019
Be careful of the fake news manipulating you.
They hate Dalton and want nothing more to replace him. They've beat the dead horse over the last 8 years. However. Dalton for all of his faults, has led his team to far greater heights then some of the NFL and media darlings who still underachieve and haven't led their teams to nearly the success as Dalton. This isn't about the team, it's about the qb and who the media has given time to and who the media (Dalton) has deemed needing replaced since his 3rd season in the league.
So let's take a look at some of the media darlings who have had chance after chance after chance to succeed without the calls for him to get cut and replaced.
Matt Stafford - Really people. A strong arm and that has bought him all these years without calls for Detroit to get a new QB? Need I say more.
Marcus Marriota - Rarely do they speak ill of him or call for him to be replaced. Mock QB's to them each year. Even though he's accomplished nothing and far less then Dalton.
James Winston - need I say more. They've been calling for Dalton to be replaced since 2014. 4 years into his career. Mariota and Winston are young, but well past the point in their careers Dalton was taking serious heat. Did making the playoff's 5 times in a roll hurt Dalton more than these qb's who can't even sniff the playoffs but get the benefit of doubt by the media?
Kirk Cousins. They would be outraged if Dalton commanded (and got) the contract he got. Cousins was always Dalton-lite, without the success. But somehow the media has led folks to believe he's the better qb. Not sure what he's done for his teams to give them that idea, but the media pushed it and it's "fact" now.
Joe Flacco. Ok. He's got the ring and the mega playoff run. But I'd take Dalton over him (as many of us probably would given what we've seen from Flacco over the last 5 years. However, I don't think the MSM considers him the better QB. He is.
I would throw Carr into this mix, as he hasn't led his to much outside of a 12-4 season which is great, but I think Carr is getting (well they didn't draft a qb, so maybe not) the raw end of the deal with the way Gruden seems to be not sold. Carr still has potential, and I think the media still thinks highly of him even if they think Gruden doesn't. Either way, Dalton has had a more successful winning percentage and career.
Matt Ryan - I'd argue his teams have underachieved under him more than they've reached their potential. Is Ryan to blame for this? Maybe not, but Daltons the blame for everything so we must be fair. Ryan is overpaid and overrated.
Cam Newton - A better athlete then Dalton, yes, a better QB? He had his superbowl run, but like Ryan, his teams underachieved more than they reached their potential.
The rest of the qb's are solid or relatively new and shouldn't be judged so quickly (even though Dalton was judged after 2 straight playoff losses in back to back years to start his career) while some of these young qb's haven't even had a winning record let alone a playoff appearance in their first 2 years, but let's be fair and give them the time Dalton was never allocated.
Other qb's over the years were media darlings with far less success (Bradford). Many were crowned Kaep, RGIII and aren't even in the league anymore (for whatever reasons) or barely holding on to spots.. Cutler was another one that had to retire and the media still hadn't turned on him after years of underachieving.
It's time to circle the wagon around Dalton for this year, and not let the media manipulate us into thinking Dalton is a bad qb while turning a blind critical eye to these other qb's with far less career success (team or otherwise).
This is another "Dalton" thread, but it's really a thread about how the media has manipulated people to think Dalton is such a bad qb, while letting these other qb's with far less team success get away with not taking the blame for the underachieving teams.
Folks will say the qb doesn't win or lose games. They only say that with some of these other media darlings. When it comes to Dalton, it's always been on him.
RE: If I told you once, I told you twice... - OSUfan - 05-07-2019
(05-07-2019, 05:05 PM)jj22 Wrote: Be careful of the fake news manipulating you.
They hate Dalton and want nothing more to replace him. They've beat the dead horse over the last 8 years. However. Dalton for all of his faults, has led his team to far greater heights then some of the NFL and media darlings who still underachieve and haven't led their teams to nearly the success as Dalton. This isn't about the team, it's about the qb and who the media has given time to and who the media (Dalton) has deemed needing replaced since his 3rd season in the league.
So let's take a look at some of the media darlings who have had chance after chance after chance to succeed without the calls for him to get cut and replaced.
Matt Stafford - Really people. A strong arm and that has bought him all these years without calls for Detroit to get a new QB? Need I say more.
Marcus Marriota - Rarely do they speak ill of him or call for him to be replaced. Mock QB's to them each year. Even though he's accomplished nothing and far less then Dalton.
James Winston - need I say more. They've been calling for Dalton to be replaced since 2014. 4 years into his career. Mariota and Winston are young, but well past the point in their careers Dalton was taking serious heat. Did making the playoff's 5 times in a roll hurt Dalton more than these qb's who can't even sniff the playoffs but get the benefit of doubt by the media?
Kirk Cousins. They would be outraged if Dalton commanded (and got) the contract he got. Cousins was always Dalton-lite, without the success. But somehow the media has led folks to believe he's the better qb. Not sure what he's done for his teams to give them that idea, but the media pushed it and it's "fact" now.
Joe Flacco. Ok. He's got the ring and the mega playoff run. But I'd take Dalton over him (as many of us probably would given what we've seen from Flacco over the last 5 years. However, I don't think the MSM considers him the better QB. He is.
I would throw Carr into this mix, as he hasn't led his to much outside of a 12-4 season which is great, but I think Carr is getting (well they didn't draft a qb, so maybe not) the raw end of the deal with the way Gruden seems to be not sold. Carr still has potential, and I think the media still thinks highly of him even if they think Gruden doesn't. Either way, Dalton has had a more successful winning percentage and career.
Matt Ryan - I'd argue his teams have underachieved under him more than they've reached their potential. Is Ryan to blame for this? Maybe not, but Daltons the blame for everything so we must be fair. Ryan is overpaid and overrated.
Cam Newton - A better athlete then Dalton, yes, a better QB? He had his superbowl run, but like Ryan, his teams underachieved more than they reached their potential.
The rest of the qb's are solid or relatively new and shouldn't be judged so quickly (even though Dalton was judged after 2 straight playoff losses in back to back years to start his career) while some of these young qb's haven't even had a winning record let alone a playoff appearance in their first 2 years, but let's be fair and give them the time Dalton was never allocated.
Other qb's over the years were media darlings with far less success (Bradford). Many were crowned Kaep, RGIII and aren't even in the league anymore (for whatever reasons) or barely holding on to spots.. Cutler was another one that had to retire and the media still hadn't turned on him after years of underachieving.
It's time to circle the wagon around Dalton for this year, and not let the media manipulate us into thinking Dalton is a bad qb while praising these other qb's with far less career success (team or otherwise).
This is another "Dalton" thread, but it's really a thread about how the media has manipulated people to think Dalton is such a bad qb, while letting these other qb's with far less team success get away with not taking the blame for the underachieving teams.
Folks will say the qb doesn't win or lose games. They only say that with some of these other media darlings. When it comes to Dalton, it's always been on him.
Absolutely excellent post!
RE: If I told you once, I told you twice... - jj22 - 05-07-2019
I think a playoff win (just one) would work wonders for Daltons reputation. No matter his future with the team, I hope he can get one for his reputation. Since he can't get any respect any other way (and they'll still likely credit the team and ZT if it happens), and blame Dalton on not making the Superbowl. A far more demanding set of hurdles to jump to get respect then many other qb's around the league.
RE: If I told you once, I told you twice... - HarleyDog - 05-07-2019
(05-07-2019, 05:15 PM)jj22 Wrote: I think a playoff win (just one) would work wonders for Daltons reputation. No matter his future with the team, I hope he can get one for his reputation. Since he can't get any respect any other way (and they'll still likely credit the team and ZT if it happens), and blame Dalton on not making the Superbowl. A far more demanding set of hurdles to jump to get respect then many other qb's around the league.
A SB win would have the same naysayers shouting they supported him all along. I hate fake media and fake people. Shit, I just realized I said that on a message board where probably less than 10 people know my real name?
RE: If I told you once, I told you twice... - depthchart - 05-07-2019
(05-07-2019, 05:28 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: A SB win would have the same naysayers shouting they supported him all along. I hate fake media and fake people. Shit, I just realized I said that on a message board where probably less than 10 people know my real name?
Are you saying that you are not really a Dog named Harley & I am really not Charles Bronson ?
RE: If I told you once, I told you twice... - XenoMorph - 05-07-2019
(05-07-2019, 05:38 PM)depthchart Wrote: Are you saying that you are not really a Dog named Harley & I am really not Charles Bronson ?
If he identifies as a dog named Harley who are we to say hes not... lol it is 2019 after all.
RE: If I told you once, I told you twice... - BURROWorBUST - 05-07-2019
2019 will be a defining year for Andy Dalton. New HC, new OC, new run heavy and PA scheme, with an improved OLine. Dalton could play himself into a huge paycheck, or he could play himself into obscurity. We'll see. I think he's got the skills to be a top 10 QB in this league.
RE: If I told you once, I told you twice... - Andy2AJ - 05-07-2019
(05-07-2019, 05:28 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: A SB win would have the same naysayers shouting they supported him all along. I hate fake media and fake people. Shit, I just realized I said that on a message board where probably less than 10 people know my real name?
Hell, a playoff win would of done that
RE: If I told you once, I told you twice... - Pat5775 - 05-07-2019
People always say “dalton chokes in big games”... However, the entire team consistently collapsed in big games. That’s on Marvin. I’ve said for over 7 years now that I’ve wanted to see what Dalton could do without Marvin, and I’m about to get my wish. Really looking forward to it.
RE: If I told you once, I told you twice... - Forever Spinning Vinyl - 05-07-2019
(05-07-2019, 05:54 PM)Andy2AJ Wrote: Hell, a playoff win would of done that
It's too bad that the Cincinnati Andy Dalton's lost those games. All of those great players standing around waiting for someone else to step up and make a play.
Memo to Dalton bashers.
Stop following the football all of the time.
Try paying attention to the game once in awhile.
RE: If I told you once, I told you twice... - jj22 - 05-07-2019
I still don't know how Bradford lasted as long as he did. He made something like 300 million in his career. And what had he done?
RE: If I told you once, I told you twice... - rfaulk34 - 05-07-2019
(05-07-2019, 05:28 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: A SB win would have the same naysayers shouting they supported him all along. I hate fake media and fake people. Shit, I just realized I said that on a message board where probably less than 10 people know my real name?
Oh...i know what your name is.
RE: If I told you once, I told you twice... - NKURyan - 05-07-2019
(05-07-2019, 05:05 PM)jj22 Wrote: Be careful of the fake news manipulating you.
They hate Dalton and want nothing more to replace him. They've beat the dead horse over the last 8 years. However. Dalton for all of his faults, has led his team to far greater heights then some of the NFL and media darlings who still underachieve and haven't led their teams to nearly the success as Dalton. This isn't about the team, it's about the qb and who the media has given time to and who the media (Dalton) has deemed needing replaced since his 3rd season in the league.
So let's take a look at some of the media darlings who have had chance after chance after chance to succeed without the calls for him to get cut and replaced.
Matt Stafford - Really people. A strong arm and that has bought him all these years without calls for Detroit to get a new QB? Need I say more.
Marcus Marriota - Rarely do they speak ill of him or call for him to be replaced. Mock QB's to them each year. Even though he's accomplished nothing and far less then Dalton.
James Winston - need I say more. They've been calling for Dalton to be replaced since 2014. 4 years into his career. Mariota and Winston are young, but well past the point in their careers Dalton was taking serious heat. Did making the playoff's 5 times in a roll hurt Dalton more than these qb's who can't even sniff the playoffs but get the benefit of doubt by the media?
Kirk Cousins. They would be outraged if Dalton commanded (and got) the contract he got. Cousins was always Dalton-lite, without the success. But somehow the media has led folks to believe he's the better qb. Not sure what he's done for his teams to give them that idea, but the media pushed it and it's "fact" now.
Joe Flacco. Ok. He's got the ring and the mega playoff run. But I'd take Dalton over him (as many of us probably would given what we've seen from Flacco over the last 5 years. However, I don't think the MSM considers him the better QB. He is.
I would throw Carr into this mix, as he hasn't led his to much outside of a 12-4 season which is great, but I think Carr is getting (well they didn't draft a qb, so maybe not) the raw end of the deal with the way Gruden seems to be not sold. Carr still has potential, and I think the media still thinks highly of him even if they think Gruden doesn't. Either way, Dalton has had a more successful winning percentage and career.
Matt Ryan - I'd argue his teams have underachieved under him more than they've reached their potential. Is Ryan to blame for this? Maybe not, but Daltons the blame for everything so we must be fair. Ryan is overpaid and overrated.
Cam Newton - A better athlete then Dalton, yes, a better QB? He had his superbowl run, but like Ryan, his teams underachieved more than they reached their potential.
The rest of the qb's are solid or relatively new and shouldn't be judged so quickly (even though Dalton was judged after 2 straight playoff losses in back to back years to start his career) while some of these young qb's haven't even had a winning record let alone a playoff appearance in their first 2 years, but let's be fair and give them the time Dalton was never allocated.
Other qb's over the years were media darlings with far less success (Bradford). Many were crowned Kaep, RGIII and aren't even in the league anymore (for whatever reasons) or barely holding on to spots.. Cutler was another one that had to retire and the media still hadn't turned on him after years of underachieving.
It's time to circle the wagon around Dalton for this year, and not let the media manipulate us into thinking Dalton is a bad qb while turning a blind critical eye to these other qb's with far less career success (team or otherwise).
This is another "Dalton" thread, but it's really a thread about how the media has manipulated people to think Dalton is such a bad qb, while letting these other qb's with far less team success get away with not taking the blame for the underachieving teams.
Folks will say the qb doesn't win or lose games. They only say that with some of these other media darlings. When it comes to Dalton, it's always been on him.
I've always felt like some of it is because Dalton is a second round QB. All of those guys you mentioned (except Cousins) were first round picks, usually very high ones. I think lazier members of the sports media remember that and basically say "these guys had all of the tools coming out of college, if it doesn't work out it must be the team's fault" giving the QBs the benefit of the doubt. Meanwhile, they look at Dalton and say "How could they not have moved on yet? He was just a second round guy and he hasn't won anything there."
I also think Dalton takes a lot of flack simply for not being the sexiest or flashiest of QBs. Makes me wonder how a guy like Ken Anderson would've been viewed if he played today.
Hopefully Dalton can be the QB that finally breaks the Bengals' postseason drought, though admittedly he may be running out of time. It sure would be nice to see the guy get his due from the general public for a change, though.
RE: If I told you once, I told you twice... - fredtoast - 05-07-2019
(05-07-2019, 05:05 PM)jj22 Wrote: Kirk Cousins. They would be outraged if Dalton commanded (and got) the contract he got. Cousins was always Dalton-lite, without the success. But somehow the media has led folks to believe he's the better qb. Not sure what he's done for his teams to give them that idea, but the media pushed it and it's "fact" now.
Over the last 4 years Cousins has the 4th most passing yards in the league (17,474) and the 6th highest passer rating (98.1). Drew Brees is the only QB with a higher completion percentage than Cousins (67.8) during that stretch, and only 3 QBs (Brady, Brees, Wilson) have accounted for more tds (rush + pass) than Cousin's 125.
Kirk has elite QB production that dwarves anything Andy has ever done.
RE: If I told you once, I told you twice... - Forever Spinning Vinyl - 05-07-2019
(05-07-2019, 06:51 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Over the last 4 years Cousins has the 4th most passing yards in the league (17,474) and the 6th highest passer rating (98.1). Drew Brees is the only QB with a higher completion percentage than Cousins (67.8) during that stretch, and only 3 QBs (Brady, Brees, Wilson) have accounted for more tds (rush + pass).
Kirk has elite QB production that dwarves anything Dalton has ever done.
And then he went to Minnesota and sucked
RE: If I told you once, I told you twice... - fredtoast - 05-07-2019
(05-07-2019, 06:56 PM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: And then he went to Minnesota and sucked
Uh, no.
4300 yds, 30 tds, 70.4 completion percentage, and 99.7 passer rating.
Cousins was not the problem in Minnesota last year.
RE: If I told you once, I told you twice... - Hoofhearted - 05-07-2019
(05-07-2019, 06:00 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: People always say “dalton chokes in big games”... However, the entire team consistently collapsed in big games. That’s on Marvin. I’ve said for over 7 years now that I’ve wanted to see what Dalton could do without Marvin, and I’m about to get my wish. Really looking forward to it.
Care to explain? Do you honestly think ML says “ok, everyone, the game plan is to choke”? I thought it wasn’t about the X’s and O’s But the jimmy and joes?
RE: If I told you once, I told you twice... - Nately120 - 05-07-2019
Ehh...you tell us not to buy into fake news and then tell us that a number of QBs that have been criticized and called to be replaced don't get criticized.
Flacco got benched/replaced by a guy who can't throw the ball and people are fine with it. Elway made some comments about Flacco still having what it takes and the media had a field day with it and laughed at Elway's latest QB-blunder.
Stafford gets lots of flack, and he plays for a franchise that has a single playoff win in 60+ years. His replacement has been discussed about as much as Dalton's, but it comes back to them playing for garbage franchises.
Multiple fans/experts have said this is a make or break year for Mariotta and Tannehill was brought in to either take the starting spot now or next year if/when they move on from him.
There has been plenty of noise about the Bucs moving on from James Winston, plus the guy was on the bench for Ryan Fitzpatrick this year and I don't recall anyone acting like the Bucs were insane for playing a journeyman QB over him. Hardly a sign that no one ever talks about him losing his job.
Kirk Cousins looks bad when you factor in the contract and the buzz he generated as a FA, but as Fred pointed out, he's better than you're giving him credit for. The guy does fall apart in big games and his W/L record versus winning teams is bad AND it's brought up...a lot. I don't know where you get the idea that people aren't on his arse.
The media doesn't seem too high on Carr, but he is a one-year wonder who throws the ball 3 yards and had one great season and rode it to a big contract. There was plenty of buzz about Gruden replacing him in the past year or so, including this draft, and again no one acted like replacing Carr is a crazy idea.
Matt Ryan and Cam Newton aren't HOF-ers, but they both made the SB since we had a winning season, so meh...I can see why they'd get more respect than us/Dalton. WIth that being said, Cam's shoulder is a big concern and they drafted a QB higher than we did and there is buzz that Cam's best days may be gone. Like Dalton, he's riding on the "hey, remember 2015!?" fumes.
The fact that you think the media loves Jay Cutler just completely blows my mind.
Ida know, man...you cry fake news and then say a bunch of stuff that doesn't really jive with what I've been hearing. Plus, Dalton hasn't had a winning season in 3 years. NOt all his fault, but you can't expect a small-market team to get much attention when they are winning 6 games per year.
RE: If I told you once, I told you twice... - J24 - 05-07-2019
QB position is at an all time high right now there a lot of guys that get an unfair rep because there not Mahomes or Rodgers...
What I am most excited about Dalton this year are two things 1.) The O line will actually be good and 2.) It's going to be a run first offense.
RE: If I told you once, I told you twice... - jason - 05-07-2019
(05-07-2019, 05:28 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: A SB win would have the same naysayers shouting they supported him all along. I hate fake media and fake people. Shit, I just realized I said that on a message board where probably less than 10 people know my real name?
So... What's your name?