+- Cincinnati Bengals Message Board / Forums - Home of Jungle Noise (https://thebengalsboard.com)
+-- Forum: Cincinnati Bengals / NFL (https://thebengalsboard.com/forum-3.html)
+--- Forum: JUNGLE NOISE (https://thebengalsboard.com/forum-2.html)
+--- Thread: In case you forgot about Carl Lawson.. (/thread-20540.html)
In case you forgot about Carl Lawson.. - Au165 - 07-08-2019
Just in case people forgot about how good Carl Lawson is here is a mash up of him destroying left tackles. Obviously coming off the ACL he may not be 100% (Although today it's not uncommon to see) it is still worth remembering we missed him for half the season last year so that added pass rush we are getting back is kind of a big deal.
Also, this is a perfect example of why people shouldn't only judge pass rushers on sacks. In this video there are a couple plays he was 100% the cause of the sack, however he did not get credited for it.
Carl Lawson's signature inside long-arm bull/hump is one of the more underrated iterations in the NFL. Excited for him to return from a torn ACL that took away more than half of his 2018 season pic.twitter.com/qcvXkYbScV
— Brandon Thorn (@BrandonThornNFL) July 8, 2019
RE: In case you forgot about Carl Lawson.. - grampahol - 07-08-2019
One really poor play by an offensive lineman against a guy who later tore up his knee isn't exactly indicative of future success.. The age old question in football is "what have you done for me lately?" is important here.. That's not to say he won't have a good season this year, but there's nothing to indicate he will either. You gotta admit in the above play Lawson didn't exactly beat the best offensive play of the past 50 years..the guy was bouncing sideways on one foot.. Star studded excellence there folks..
RE: In case you forgot about Carl Lawson.. - Au165 - 07-08-2019
(07-08-2019, 09:16 AM)grampahol Wrote: One really poor play by an offensive lineman against a guy who later tore up his knee isn't exactly indicative of future success.. The age old question in football is "what have you done for me lately?" is important here.. That's not to say he won't have a good season this year, but there's nothing to indicate he will either. You gotta admit in the above play Lawson didn't exactly beat the best offensive play of the past 50 years..the guy was bouncing sideways on one foot.. Star studded excellence there folks..
...Huh? Is this just a really bad troll attempt?
RE: In case you forgot about Carl Lawson.. - jj22 - 07-08-2019
I felt he disappeared last season before the injury (1 sack in 7 games). Was on pace to have a 2.2 sack season. Nothing to write home about. But the whole D struggled if I can use Hobspin's excuse for our defensive players. Hopefully he bounces back, but probably wont' be until 2020 season.
RE: In case you forgot about Carl Lawson.. - Au165 - 07-08-2019
(07-08-2019, 09:29 AM)jj22 Wrote: I felt he disappeared last season before the injury (1 sack in 7 games). Was on pace to have a 2.2 sack season. Nothing to write home about. But the whole D struggled if I can use Hobspin's excuse for our defensive players. Hopefully he bounces back, but probably wont' be until 2020 season.
He was top 5 league wide in QB pressures before he got hurt. As I said sacks aren't a great indicator of a players effectiveness especially as an edge guy because in this video for instance you can see guys running away from him because he was destroying their LT. This video is a minute cut up highlighting a single rush move, it isn't everything he did before getting hurt.
Edit: Actually, before being hurt he was 2nd in pressures only behind Von Miller. His PFF rating of 80.9 was 8th in the entire league when he got hurt.
![[Image: D6EpghyW4AAjNVg.jpg]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D6EpghyW4AAjNVg.jpg)
![[Image: Carl-Lawson-Pass-Rush-768x432.png]](https://media.profootballfocus.com/2019/05/Carl-Lawson-Pass-Rush-768x432.png)
RE: In case you forgot about Carl Lawson.. - Whatever - 07-08-2019
(07-08-2019, 09:33 AM)Au165 Wrote: He was top 5 league wide in QB pressures before he got hurt. As I said sacks aren't a great indicator of a players effectiveness especially as an edge guy because in this video for instance you can see guys running away from him because he was destroying their LT. This video is a two minute cut up highlighting a single rush move, it isn't everything he did before getting hurt.
Edit: Actually, before being hurt he was 2nd in pressures only behind Von Miller. His PFF rating of 80.9 was 8th in the entire league when he got hurt.
It was pretty clear that Geno and Dunlap's production dipped after Lawson went down. He wasn't getting sacks, but he generated a ton of pressure and flushed QB's into the other guys.
RE: In case you forgot about Carl Lawson.. - RASCAL - 07-08-2019
(07-08-2019, 09:38 AM)Whatever Wrote: It was pretty clear that Geno and Dunlap's production dipped after Lawson went down. He wasn't getting sacks, but he generated a ton of pressure and flushed QB's into the other guys.
I agree with this. And to the original poster, I had forgotten about him as well as Glasgow. Thanx for the reminder and heres to a GREAT but hopeful SEASON!!!
RE: In case you forgot about Carl Lawson.. - fredtoast - 07-08-2019
I heard an interview about the new stats derived from the GPS trackers the players are now wearing. For example they rank players (both rushers and blockers) based on who beats/maintains a block past 2.5 seconds. And they base it on the tracking devices. When a defender is closer to the QB than the blocker he has beaten the block.
This guys said that their data showed that many sacks were not registered by the first player to get pressure, and in fact the first guy to get pressure actually does more to create the sack. So I predict within a year or so we will have a "first pressure" stat.
BTW Lawson was in the top 3 edge rushers in percent of blocks beaten in 2.5 seconds when he went down with injury.
RE: In case you forgot about Carl Lawson.. - Au165 - 07-08-2019
(07-08-2019, 12:28 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I heard an interview about the new stats derived from the GPS trackers the players are now wearing. For example they rank players (both rushers and blockers) based on who beats/maintains a block past 2.5 seconds. And they base it on the tracking devices. When a defender is closer to the QB than the blocker he has beaten the block.
This guys aid that their data showed that many sacks were not registered by the first player to get pressure, and in fact the first guy to get pressure actually does more to create the sack. So I predict within a year or so we will have a "first pressure" sack.
BTW Lawson was in the top 3 edge rushers in percent of blocks beaten in 2.5 seconds when he went down with injury.
This is basically what analytics guys have been trying to pitch to the general public for a while. Getting ran into by a QB escaping someone else chasing him doesn't make you a good pass rusher it makes you good at standing at the right place. Obviously it's not always the case but there is a lot more that goes into a sack often times then just the guy who brought him down.
Lawson is very good at winning and I think that data backs up the tape, not just the clip in OP but the all 22 tape.
RE: In case you forgot about Carl Lawson.. - Yojimbo - 07-08-2019
I haven’t forgotten him, I’ve just placed him in the Eifert category of “body wasn’t made to play football”.
RE: In case you forgot about Carl Lawson.. - Au165 - 07-08-2019
(07-08-2019, 12:35 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: I haven’t forgotten him, I’ve just placed him in the Eifert category of “body wasn’t made to play football”.
He was healthy his rookie year and got hurt halfway through his second year, not sure how that is anything similar.
RE: In case you forgot about Carl Lawson.. - fredtoast - 07-08-2019
(07-08-2019, 12:35 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: I haven’t forgotten him, I’ve just placed him in the Eifert category of “body wasn’t made to play football”.
At first I was surprised then I realized whose post I was reading.
That category must be HUGE for you. About a quarter of the team, right?
RE: In case you forgot about Carl Lawson.. - Sled21 - 07-08-2019
Some people just aren't happy unless they are poo pooing any situation. Getting Lawson and Glasgow back will be huge. Just think, with the depleted line and linebacker corp. last year due to injury, the Defensive Backfield still ranked 7th, and that with a rookie Free Safety. With a re-established pass rush and a strengthened LB corp., I could see our Backfield moving into top 2.....
RE: In case you forgot about Carl Lawson.. - motoarch - 07-08-2019
(07-08-2019, 12:28 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I heard an interview about the new stats derived from the GPS trackers the players are now wearing. For example they rank players (both rushers and blockers) based on who beats/maintains a block past 2.5 seconds. And they base it on the tracking devices. When a defender is closer to the QB than the blocker he has beaten the block.
This guys aid that their data showed that many sacks were not registered by the first player to get pressure, and in fact the first guy to get pressure actually does more to create the sack. So I predict within a year or so we will have a "first pressure" sack.
BTW Lawson was in the top 3 edge rushers in percent of blocks beaten in 2.5 seconds when he went down with injury.
This is interesting and I like it. There are so many variables involved on defence that the basic stats we typically look at don't really tell you the whole story. It would be interesting to see stats that account for some of these 'intangibles'.
RE: In case you forgot about Carl Lawson.. - Earendil - 07-08-2019
(07-08-2019, 12:28 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I heard an interview about the new stats derived from the GPS trackers the players are now wearing. For example they rank players (both rushers and blockers) based on who beats/maintains a block past 2.5 seconds. And they base it on the tracking devices. When a defender is closer to the QB than the blocker he has beaten the block.
This guys aid that their data showed that many sacks were not registered by the first player to get pressure, and in fact the first guy to get pressure actually does more to create the sack. So I predict within a year or so we will have a "first pressure" sack.
BTW Lawson was in the top 3 edge rushers in percent of blocks beaten in 2.5 seconds when he went down with injury.
Agreed. In the video posted above, a lot of times the QB is getting the ball out in 2-3 seconds, probably because the linebackers took the day off. I'd be willing to make the assumption that this contributed to his low sack count.
RE: In case you forgot about Carl Lawson.. - fredtoast - 07-08-2019
(07-08-2019, 12:28 PM)fredtoast Wrote: BTW Lawson was in the top 3 edge rushers in percent of blocks beaten in 2.5 seconds when he went down with injury.
Did not see this when I made my post. Derp
(07-08-2019, 09:33 AM)Au165 Wrote:
Pretty sure this is the same "next gen" stat that I was talking about.
RE: In case you forgot about Carl Lawson.. - Yojimbo - 07-08-2019
(07-08-2019, 12:41 PM)Au165 Wrote: He was healthy his rookie year and got hurt halfway through his second year, not sure how that is anything similar.
(07-08-2019, 12:45 PM)fredtoast Wrote: At first I was surprised then I realized whose post I was reading.
That category must be HUGE for you. About a quarter of the team, right?
He has injury history predating his time in the league. It’s why he dropped in the draft. Knee and hip in college and missed most of preseason rookie season with a shoulder injury. Hmm, lots of soft tissue injuries...steroids anyone?
RE: In case you forgot about Carl Lawson.. - Synric - 07-08-2019
I would like to see Carl Lawson on the field more often this year and not just on third downs. I remember complaining when they had MJ in the game over Lawson on 2nd and 20.
RE: In case you forgot about Carl Lawson.. - fredtoast - 07-08-2019
(07-08-2019, 02:53 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: He has injury history predating his time in the league. It’s why he dropped in the draft. Knee and hip in college and missed most of preseason rookie season with a shoulder injury. Hmm, lots of soft tissue injuries...steroids anyone?
WTF??
Lots of players get injured in college.
And what does steroids have to do with anything? How is a cracked hip a "soft tissue injury"?
RE: In case you forgot about Carl Lawson.. - Yojimbo - 07-08-2019
(07-08-2019, 03:17 PM)fredtoast Wrote: WTF??
Lots of players get injured in college.
And what does steroids have to do with anything? How is a cracked hip a "soft tissue injury"?
Steroid abuse leads to a lot of soft-tissue injuries, especially at the joints.