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+--- Thread: ZT needs to change the offense right now (/thread-21419.html)
ZT needs to change the offense right now - Joelist - 10-01-2019
Simply put the scheme right now is not working. It is not so much the plays being bad as it is the plays being beyond the ability of the players to run them effectively. And the BIGGEST culprit here by far is the Offensive Line.
So far we have had only one game where the blocking was even barely average for passing and none where the run blocking has been remotely acceptable. It doesn't matter who is behind center with the circus going on out there - there is no pocket to move around in and we constantly have both OTs and indeed both Guards whiffing on blocks letting defenders fly in untouched.
So, the ONLY hope right now is to go to Mass Protect on every down. Use 2 TE 2 WR single back and make the TEs your best blockers. Before the offense can do ANYTHING they have to put an end to unblocked defenders flying into the backfield. Also ditch the zone concepts and have the line just block directionally in pure power mode - the zone concepts require too much thinking and awareness for our current linemen to execute successfully.
If we continue doing what we are doing we won't have to wait too long to see Finley, as Andy will soon be on IR with this blocking. After him Finley may last a couple of games then he will be injured also - the blocking is so bad it is dangerous for a QB to line up out there.
RE: ZT needs to change the offense right now - THE PISTONS - 10-01-2019
The issues extend beyond the offensive line. For instance, the receivers don't get open a lot.
Dalton doesn't have a strong arm and when the line gets pushed back to him, he doesn't have the arm to overcome it. Also, his pocket awareness is bad.
The screen calls are predictable. How many to the RB's were close to getting intercepted.
The playcalls are vanilla. We fake a jet sweep how many times? Yet...we never run it. Well the Steelers destroyed us with jet sweeps and fake jet sweeps.
We appear to be running some Chinese knockoff of the Rams offense where plays aren't called at appropriate times.
Also, they did play Sample and Uzomah a bunch to block...and they get beat.
And the line, how many times did 2 lineman double team a guy only to let a blitzer have a free run at the QB. That's scheme and coaching.
RE: ZT needs to change the offense right now - Bengalfan4life27c - 10-01-2019
(10-01-2019, 02:08 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: The issues extend beyond the offensive line. For instance, the receivers don't get open a lot.
Dalton doesn't have a strong arm and when the line gets pushed back to him, he doesn't have the arm to overcome it. Also, his pocket awareness is bad.
The screen calls are predictable. How many to the RB's were close to getting intercepted.
The playcalls are vanilla. We fake a jet sweep how many times? Yet...we never run it. Well the Steelers destroyed us with jet sweeps and fake jet sweeps.
We appear to be running some Chinese knockoff of the Rams offense where plays aren't called at appropriate times.
Also, they did play Sample and Uzomah a bunch to block...and they get beat.
And the line, how many times did 2 lineman double team a guy only to let a blitzer have a free run at the QB. That's scheme and coaching.
You were right about Taylor he is an absolute mess. This is Dave Shula all over again
RE: ZT needs to change the offense right now - JSR18 - 10-01-2019
Did we all forget how bad UC's offense was when ZT was O coordinator??
I know I tried like hell when he was named here.
They were hot garbage, just like this offense...
RE: ZT needs to change the offense right now - THE PISTONS - 10-01-2019
(10-01-2019, 02:14 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: You were right about Taylor he is an absolute mess. This is Dave Shula all over again
It's sad man that they are so bad. I feel bad for Taylor. He didn't know what he didn't know. He's going to destroy his career.
Coughlin questioned whether he could win here in 2003 the way things were setup...and ZT is the perfect storm. The Bengals gave him authority and he hired this staff...basically inexperienced friends, all with questionable track records.
In free agency, they brought in role players that they were familiar with.
I won't dig it up, but ZT did evaluate the roster and presumably was happy with guys like Bobby Hart and the LB's...or else I doubt the Bengals keep them.
RE: ZT needs to change the offense right now - Joelist - 10-01-2019
It all starts with the line - that is football 101.
The line blocks properly then the backs can gain yards and the receivers have time to get separation - I do agree though that our receivers are poor at getting separation and have been for years.
Pocket awareness requires an actual pocket (not one shaped like the letter M ) to matter - the vast majority of the time there is nowhere to slide to. This also affects throws because most QBs throw best when they can step into their throws which behind our line is almost a fantasy. Finley would be in the same boat as would Dolegala. The MNF announcers even noted the problem - our poor blocking means the QB cannot step into throws.
I do agree the play calls are bad. But I also think this personnel group is not able to execute more sophisticated stuff because of the poor line.
RE: ZT needs to change the offense right now - Bengalfan4life27c - 10-01-2019
(10-01-2019, 02:19 PM)Joelist Wrote: It all starts with the line - that is football 101.
The line blocks properly then the backs can gain yards and the receivers have time to get separation - I do agree though that our receivers are poor at getting separation and have been for years.
Pocket awareness requires an actual pocket (not one shaped like the letter M ) to matter - the vast majority of the time there is nowhere to slide to. This also affects throws because most QBs throw best when they can step into their throws which behind out line is almost a fantasy. Finley would be in the same boat as would Dolegala. The MNF announcers even noted the problem - our poor blocking means the QB cannot step into throws.
I do agree the play calls are bad. But I also think this personnel group is not able to execute more sophisticated stuff because of the poor line.
Taylor is making the decision to start MJ over price though. You can't tell me with a straight face that Price was that bad against Bills last week
RE: ZT needs to change the offense right now - bfine32 - 10-01-2019
IMO the issue is not using Joe Mixon enough. He's average over 4 YPC over the last 2 games. The issue is he's only rushed 15 times in each. Fellow 2017 draftees Christian McCafferty and Leonard Fournette has 51 and 44 carries over the same time period. Their teams have won both games for their first 2 wins of the season.
RE: ZT needs to change the offense right now - THE PISTONS - 10-01-2019
(10-01-2019, 02:19 PM)Joelist Wrote: It all starts with the line - that is football 101.
The line blocks properly then the backs can gain yards and the receivers have time to get separation - I do agree though that our receivers are poor at getting separation and have been for years.
Pocket awareness requires an actual pocket (not one shaped like the letter M ) to matter - the vast majority of the time there is nowhere to slide to. This also affects throws because most QBs throw best when they can step into their throws which behind out line is almost a fantasy. Finley would be in the same boat as would Dolegala. The MNF announcers even noted the problem - our poor blocking means the QB cannot step into throws.
I do agree the play calls are bad. But I also think this personnel group is not able to execute more sophisticated stuff because of the poor line.
Blaming it all on the line is simplistic though. You know when teams blitz? When you are in obvious passing situations. Mixon ran for 4+ ypc.
Do that on 1st down, and all the sudden the defense can't blitz you as much. Then work screens in and play-action and keep them off guard.
The playcalling allows teams to blitz. Taylor calls plays like he's playing Madden and it doesn't work.
RE: ZT needs to change the offense right now - Joelist - 10-01-2019
(10-01-2019, 02:26 PM)bfine32 Wrote: IMO the issue is not using Joe Mixon enough. He's average over 4 YPC over the last 2 games. The issue is he's only rushed 15 times in each. Fellow 2017 draftees Christian McCafferty and Leonard Fournette has 51 and 44 carries over the same time period. Their teams have won both games for their first 2 wins of the season.
That is part of it. We need to just pound the rock over and over to let the line gain some confidence and also stop the zone schemes and let them drive block.
RE: ZT needs to change the offense right now - ochocincos - 10-01-2019
They need Glenn back at minimum at LT (ideally Jonah Williams), they need to put Price in for Jordan at LG, and they need two TEs in next to the OTs. Or one TE and an extra OL for a jumbo package.
With that personnel, they need to prioritize a power run game to then set up play action (which I thought was the original plan but it never came to fruition).
That, IMO, is the only way to have a chance to fix this offense with the personnel they have.
RE: ZT needs to change the offense right now - THE PISTONS - 10-01-2019
(10-01-2019, 02:29 PM)Joelist Wrote: That is part of it. We need to just pound the rock over and over to let the line gain some confidence and also stop the zone schemes and let them drive block.
Well...we need to customize the way we attack to our opponents and attack their weaknesses...like they do to us.
Taylor uses a 1-size fits all approach and it's failing miserably.
He honestly looked like a deer in headlights on the sideline.
RE: ZT needs to change the offense right now - ochocincos - 10-01-2019
(10-01-2019, 02:25 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: Taylor is making the decision to start MJ over price though. You can't tell me with a straight face that Price was that bad against Bills last week
Price actually has a respectable run blocking score according to PFF (60).
MJ has an abysmal run blocking score of 40, an abysmal pass blocking score of 35(!), and 4 sacks allowed.
MJ has actually been the worst OL on the team (both run and pass) so far.
RE: ZT needs to change the offense right now - JSR18 - 10-01-2019
(10-01-2019, 02:29 PM)ochocincos Wrote: They need Glenn back at minimum at LT (ideally Jonah Williams), they need to put Price in for Jordan at LG, and they need two TEs in next to the OTs. Or one TE and an extra OL for a jumbo package.
With that personnel, they need to prioritize a power run game to then set up play action (which I thought was the original plan but it never came to fruition).
That, IMO, is the only way to have a chance to fix this offense with the personnel they have.
Need Glenn back?!? The man has been in concussion protocol since the 2ND PRESEASON game.He gets hit in the head 1 time and he's going to think he's Batman for the next year...
RE: ZT needs to change the offense right now - THE PISTONS - 10-01-2019
(10-01-2019, 02:32 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Price actually has a respectable run blocking score according to PFF (60).
MJ has an abysmal run blocking score of 40, an abysmal pass blocking score of 35(!), and 4 sacks allowed.
MJ has actually been the worst OL on the team (both run and pass) so far.
Do you have the grades from the Steelers game? If you have time and feel like posting some, that would be cool.
RE: ZT needs to change the offense right now - ochocincos - 10-01-2019
(10-01-2019, 02:35 PM)JSR18 Wrote:
He gets hit in the head 1 time and he's going to think he's Batman for the next year...
Still a better option than Andre Smith at LT.
RE: ZT needs to change the offense right now - ochocincos - 10-01-2019
(10-01-2019, 02:35 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Do you have the grades from the Steelers game? If you have time and feel like posting some, that would be cool.
That's only available for their top tier, which I do not pay for.
RE: ZT needs to change the offense right now - Yojimbo - 10-01-2019
He needs to give up play calling duties. He’s in over his head as a HC as it is.
RE: ZT needs to change the offense right now - Joelist - 10-02-2019
(10-01-2019, 02:32 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Well...we need to customize the way we attack to our opponents and attack their weaknesses...like they do to us.
Taylor uses a 1-size fits all approach and it's failing miserably.
He honestly looked like a deer in headlights on the sideline.
Normally I would agree but this line is so bad at basic blocking that sophisticated things like an offense adapting to the opposing defense are not feasible at this time.
Change to power drive blocking, use 2 TE all the time and run, run, run to get the line at least some cohesion and confidence.
RE: ZT needs to change the offense right now - XenoMorph - 10-02-2019
(10-01-2019, 02:14 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: You were right about Taylor he is an absolute mess. This is Dave Shula all over again
will his ego allow him to pass on play calling duties to someone else?
thought it was real weird he did that considering he doesn't have experience with it or being a HC