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+--- Thread: 0-5 86.9 when does the plug get pulled ? (/thread-21514.html)
0-5 86.9 when does the plug get pulled ? - bengalfan74 - 10-07-2019
Andy Dalton in his 9th season has a QB rating of 86.9 and the Bengals are 0-5.
Among QB's with 100+ pass attempts there is a grand total of 6 QB's with lower ratings. Two are rookies - D. Jones 85.4 and K. Murray 80.1 Two are 2nd year - B. Mayfield 77.2 and J. Allen 75.2 Trubisky in his 3rd season is 81.0 and Goff in his 4th is 83.0
So there's a total of two QB's past their 2nd season with a worse QB rating than are experienced veteran in his 9th season.
I know, I know everybody is gonna come on here and talk about the horrible Oline, AJ being out, lack of running game, dropped passes, the bad defense, the coaching, the playcalling, and on and on and on.
Yet every weekend I watch other football games with QB's under just as much pressure as AD still getting the job done, or at least putting up a much better effort. BTW Dalton had a lot of clean pockets in the Arizona game.
It'a absolutely true AD is not the only problem on this team, there's no doubt. But when is this fanbase going to admit in the same breath that AD is not part of the solution either ?
AT 0-5 our chances of making the playoffs are like .00000001% pull the damn plug already and let's see what we have in the backups. It's obvious AD is not part of the answer going forward.
RE: 0-5 86.9 when does the plug get pulled ? - Catmandude123 - 10-07-2019
The common reply you will hear from the Dalton gang "It's not Andy's fault because _________"(enter the excuse of the day).
RE: 0-5 86.9 when does the plug get pulled ? - HarleyDog - 10-07-2019
Dalton pissed me off yesterday when he rolled out on 3rd down and threw the ball away. I've hated it since the first time he done it to the last. It's not all his fault, but he needs to find a way to keep the play alive and let his receivers get open or come back to him. Throwing away the ball on 3rd down is like watching the leader of the offense just give up on a play. Equivalent to a receiver quitting on a route if you ask me. Getting tired of seeing lameness on the field. Also, you can't do stuff like that and say in your post game that you got to do better because, well, you know better. Maybe he's just tired of getting hit, who knows?
RE: 0-5 86.9 when does the plug get pulled ? - HarleyDog - 10-07-2019
(10-07-2019, 10:43 AM)Catmandude123 Wrote: The common reply you will hear from the Dalton gang "It's not Andy's fault because _________"(enter the excuse of the day).
Some, but not all is Daltons fault.
RE: 0-5 86.9 when does the plug get pulled ? - Catmandude123 - 10-07-2019
(10-07-2019, 10:45 AM)HarleyDog Wrote: Dalton pissed me off yesterday when he rolled out on 3rd down and threw the ball away. I've hated it since the first time he done it to the last. It's not all his fault, but he needs to find a way to keep the play alive and let his receivers get open or come back to him. Throwing away the ball on 3rd down is like watching the leader of the offense just give up on a play. Equivalent to a receiver quitting on a route if you ask me. Getting tired of seeing lameness on the field. Also, you can't do stuff like that and say in your post game that you got to do better because, well, you know better. Maybe he's just tired of getting hit, who knows?Dalton has done this since he was a rookie. He just can't throw on the run. Defenses know if they make him move off his spot they usually will get a good result. Opposing linemen know exactly where he will be and this makes it harder for lineman to protect him. Murray killed us yesterday when he got outside the pocket. But "It's not Andy's fault " he can't throw on the run or move the pocket to extend plays. It's always the fault of the other fifty two players who can't seem to pull the QB to super star status.
RE: 0-5 86.9 when does the plug get pulled ? - fredtoast - 10-07-2019
(10-07-2019, 10:22 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Yet every weekend I watch other football games with QB's under just as much pressure as AD still getting the job done,
No you don't. There is only one QB in the league who has been sacked as often as Dalton who has a higher passer rating.
(10-07-2019, 10:22 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: BTW Dalton had a lot of clean pockets in the Arizona game.
BTW Dalton completed over 70 percent of his passes despite having 4 drops on his first 8 attempts, and he finished with a 107 passer rating.
Dalton needs to improve, but it is strange the way some people obsess over him and try to blame all of our problems on him. Our defense gives up over 500 yards and blows it at the end after an amazing comeback and all people want to talk about is benching Dalton.
RE: 0-5 86.9 when does the plug get pulled ? - bengalfan74 - 10-07-2019
(10-07-2019, 10:45 AM)HarleyDog Wrote: Dalton pissed me off yesterday when he rolled out on 3rd down and threw the ball away. I've hated it since the first time he done it to the last. It's not all his fault, but he needs to find a way to keep the play alive and let his receivers get open or come back to him. Throwing away the ball on 3rd down is like watching the leader of the offense just give up on a play. Equivalent to a receiver quitting on a route if you ask me. Getting tired of seeing lameness on the field. Also, you can't do stuff like that and say in your post game that you got to do better because, well, you know better. Maybe he's just tired of getting hit, who knows?
Right on !
Dalton can not even slightly elevate this team. Rarely, very rarely does he do QB stuff and extend plays and get it done. Like you say if he gets shoved off his spot the play is over.
RE: 0-5 86.9 when does the plug get pulled ? - bengalfan74 - 10-07-2019
(10-07-2019, 11:22 AM)fredtoast Wrote: No you don't. There is only one QB in the league who has been sacked as often as Dalton who has a higher passer rating.
BTW Dalton completed over 70 percent of his passes despite having 4 drops on his first 8 attempts, and he finished with a 107 passer rating.
Dalton needs to improve, but it is strange the way some people obsess over him and try to blame all of our problems on him. Our defense gives up over 500 yards and blows it at the end after an amazing comeback and all people want to talk about is benching Dalton.
Fred this is not about placing blame ! There's plenty of that to go around on this team.
It's about Dalton's inability to avoid the rush, manipulate the pocket, extend plays and get the job done, he can't.
Remember the unscripted plays season ? What was that 2013 ? remember how badly that failed ?
RE: 0-5 86.9 when does the plug get pulled ? - bengalfan74 - 10-07-2019
(10-07-2019, 11:13 AM)Catmandude123 Wrote: Dalton has done this since he was a rookie. He just can't throw on the run. Defenses know if they make him move off his spot they usually will get a good result. Opposing linemen know exactly where he will be and this makes it harder for lineman to protect him. Murray killed us yesterday when he got outside the pocket. But "It's not Andy's fault " he can't throw on the run or move the pocket to extend plays. It's always the fault of the other fifty two players who can't seem to pull the QB to super star status.
Exactly
You see other QB's doing it all the time. News flash ! every drop back is not gonna be a perfectly clean pocket. But if it's not, Dalton fails way more often than not. Throws the ball out of bounds, takes a sack, throws a wildly inaccurate pass and so on.
But it's always the rest of the teams fault to many.
RE: 0-5 86.9 when does the plug get pulled ? - rfaulk34 - 10-07-2019
(10-07-2019, 11:22 AM)fredtoast Wrote: No you don't. There is only one QB in the league who has been sacked as often as Dalton who has a higher passer rating.
BTW Dalton completed over 70 percent of his passes despite having 4 drops on his first 8 attempts, and he finished with a 107 passer rating.
Dalton needs to improve, but it is strange the way some people obsess over him and try to blame all of our problems on him. Our defense gives up over 500 yards and blows it at the end after an amazing comeback and all people want to talk about is benching Dalton.
1. If you're talking about just this year, 5 games, whoopdeedo. Since 2015 he's the 6th most sacked QB and 5 of those have higher ratings.
2. Two drives at the end of the game made it look good. Before that, he was shit on a stick.
3. Dalton can't improve above what he is and has always been. Average.
RE: 0-5 86.9 when does the plug get pulled ? - fredtoast - 10-07-2019
(10-07-2019, 11:32 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Remember the unscripted plays season ? What was that 2013 ? remember how badly that failed ?
Career high in passing yards and TDs producing the #6 scoring offense in the league?
RE: 0-5 86.9 when does the plug get pulled ? - fredtoast - 10-07-2019
(10-07-2019, 11:37 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: You see other QB's doing it all the time.
I have seen Dalton do it a lot also.
The problem is that none of you seem to be able to remember any good play Dalton has ever made. Then you act like no other QB in the league ever make a mistake or misses a throw.
RE: 0-5 86.9 when does the plug get pulled ? - fredtoast - 10-07-2019
(10-07-2019, 11:54 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: 1. If you're talking about just this year, 5 games, whoopdeedo. Since 2015 he's the 6th most sacked QB and 5 of those have higher ratings.
So you can come up with 5 examples out of all the QBs who have started over the last 5 years? And you think that proves your point?
(10-07-2019, 11:54 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: 2. Two drives at the end of the game made it look good. Before that, he was shit on a stick.
This is priceless. Remember when you used to squeal about how much MORE IMPORTANT performance was in the fourth quarter when trying to come from behind? That is all you used to rave about. Now when Dalton plays well in the fourth quarter to bring us from 14 points down with 4 minutes left it doesn't matter.
You can't expect to have any credibility if you change your argument every time your old one falls apart.
BTW Dalton was not shit on a stick. He had about 5 drops in his first 8 attempts. But I guess other QBs are able to complete passes even when their receivers drop the ball, right?
RE: 0-5 86.9 when does the plug get pulled ? - rfaulk34 - 10-07-2019
(10-07-2019, 11:32 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Remember the unscripted plays season ? What was that 2013 ? remember how badly that failed ?
That was 2012. His first year was 'throw the ball away and live to fight another down'. 2012 they wanted him to start extending plays.
RE: 0-5 86.9 when does the plug get pulled ? - rfaulk34 - 10-07-2019
(10-07-2019, 12:37 PM)fredtoast Wrote: So you can come up with 5 examples out of all the QBs who have started over the last 5 years? And you think that proves your point?
This is priceless. Remember when you used to squeal about how much MORE IMPORTANT performance was in the fourth quarter when trying to come from behind? That is all you used to rave about. Now when Dalton plays well in the fourth quarter to bring us from 14 points down with 4 minutes left it doesn't matter.
You can't expect to have any credibility if you change your argument every time your old one falls apart.
BTW Dalton was not shit on a stick. He had about 5 drops in his first 8 attempts. But I guess other QBs are able to complete passes even when their receivers drop the ball, right?
Dalton sucks.
He needs to be replaced.
RE: 0-5 86.9 when does the plug get pulled ? - bengalfan74 - 10-07-2019
(10-07-2019, 12:27 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I have seen Dalton do it a lot also.
The problem is that none of you seem to be able to remember any good play Dalton has ever made. Then you act like no other QB in the league ever make a mistake or misses a throw.
Dalton has won games, there's no doubt. Dalton has played well in some games where he's had good protection and racked up some pretty good stats, there's no doubt.
But he also crumbles under pressure anytime the heat is on just a little. He doesn't step up in the pocket....period ! He can't avoid the rush and still make throws.....rarely if ever.
He's just not the answer moving forward.
RE: 0-5 86.9 when does the plug get pulled ? - fredtoast - 10-07-2019
(10-07-2019, 12:39 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: But he also crumbles under pressure anytime the heat is on just a little. He doesn't step up in the pocket....period !
That is just not true. Period.
According to Profootballoutsiders last year Dalton's DVOA under pressure was -49.9. That ranked 11th best out of the 34 QBs with at least 200 pass attempts. PFO goes one step farther and looks at the difference between QBs DVOA with pressure and without. Dalton had the 12th lowest difference. So he is effected by pressure less than most QBs in the league.
All of these claims that Dalton sucks so bad under pressure and that so many other QBs do better is just BS. It come from obsessing on every mistake Dalton makes and ignoring every good play he makes.
RE: 0-5 86.9 when does the plug get pulled ? - PhilHos - 10-07-2019
(10-07-2019, 12:39 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Dalton sucks.
He needs to be replaced.
Dalton does NOT suck.
But, it is time to find his replacement.
RE: 0-5 86.9 when does the plug get pulled ? - Fan_in_Kettering - 10-07-2019
(10-07-2019, 12:39 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Dalton sucks.
He needs to be replaced.
You’ve made your Dalton hate clear — and we get it.
Anyway, replacing Andy Dalton won’t be easy. Without a vastly improved offensive line and better play calling, any Cincinnati quarterback would be a sitting duck. We could put Eli Manning back there and SPLAT! We would see the same result.
Andy Dalton doesn’t suck but we need to be realistic moving forward. I don’t see him staying in Cincinnati past this season but he would be great in a place like Minnesota or Oakland. Let’s give the next quarterback in Cincinnati the weapons up front so he doesn’t look like a driver’s side airbag on impact.
RE: 0-5 86.9 when does the plug get pulled ? - Bengalholic - 10-07-2019
I've been a Dalton supporter since he was drafted and have always pulled for him to become a top tier QB. We're now in year 9 and it still hasn't happened. With the exception of 2015, he's never had an elite type season. I mean, he it what he is at this point. Although he is capable of having an awesome performance at times, he still has many of the same flaws and shortcomings that he had early in his career.
Andy is capable of being a winning NFL QB in the right circumstance. After 9 years, I don't think we should wait around for that circumstance to be here again. The team is able to part ways with Andy after this season and I think they should. I think it would be best for them and for Andy. Keeping him around at this point, sort of feels like forcing a situation to continue when it really doesn't need to and probably isn't best for either side.
I'm not saying you bench Andy right now, but if they continue to look bad and lose games over the next 4-6 weeks, I think you have to start taking a serious look a Finley to see what you have in him, so that so that you're not going into the offseason not knowing how he looks against NFL competition in a starting role.