(10-13-2019, 07:20 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: “If you have the bell cow quarterback, it works. You have to have the key guy. If you don't have the key guy, it doesn't matter.”

- Mike Brown, 2000

"If you don't have a productive quarterback, you won't go anywhere. I know it doesn't seem that simple, but it is. He's the hub of the wheel like a queen on a chessboard. These other guys are like rooks or bishops or other pieces that are not quite as valuable. Some are more valuable than others. That's just a fact."

- Mike Brown, 1999

+++

Well there you go!  All of you jonesing for a new quarterback in 2020 are about to get your wish because you’re in line with Mike Brown’s core beliefs.  Yeah, he spouted that twaddle 20 years ago but you know he still believes it because he never changes anything.  

The Bengals will take Tua Tagovailoa or Joe Burrow and Mikey Boy will think everything is coming up roses — but they aren’t.

This kind of narrow thinking created the 1999s with “bell cow quarterbacks” who never amounted to anything:  Jeff Blake, Akili Smith, David Klingler and even Jon Kitna.  Tua or Joe will get flattened, just like Andy Dalton and like Carson Palmer before him.

This carousel of “quarterback only” crap has to stop before Cincinnati starts to look like Cleveland.

Mike didn’t learn anything from his football genius father.  Paul Brown knew a great team builds from the trenches outward.  He proved it in Cleveland sixty years ago and this is the reason Cincinnati hasn’t won a playoff game since his death in 1991.

(10-13-2019, 07:34 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: At this point I don't give a rats azz which QB we draft. I am just fed up with this crap.

(10-13-2019, 07:20 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: “If you have the bell cow quarterback, it works. You have to have the key guy. If you don't have the key guy, it doesn't matter.”

- Mike Brown, 2000

"If you don't have a productive quarterback, you won't go anywhere. I know it doesn't seem that simple, but it is. He's the hub of the wheel like a queen on a chessboard. These other guys are like rooks or bishops or other pieces that are not quite as valuable. Some are more valuable than others. That's just a fact."

- Mike Brown, 1999

+++

Well there you go!  All of you jonesing for a new quarterback in 2020 are about to get your wish because you’re in line with Mike Brown’s core beliefs.  Yeah, he spouted that twaddle 20 years ago but you know he still believes it because he never changes anything.  

The Bengals will take Tua Tagovailoa or Joe Burrow and Mikey Boy will think everything is coming up roses — but they aren’t.

This kind of narrow thinking created the 1999s with “bell cow quarterbacks” who never amounted to anything:  Jeff Blake, Akili Smith, David Klingler and even Jon Kitna.  Tua or Joe will get flattened, just like Andy Dalton and like Carson Palmer before him.

This carousel of “quarterback only” crap has to stop before Cincinnati starts to look like Cleveland.

Mike didn’t learn anything from his football genius father.  Paul Brown knew a great team builds from the trenches outward.  He proved it in Cleveland sixty years ago and this is the reason Cincinnati hasn’t won a playoff game since his death in 1991.

(10-13-2019, 07:20 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: “If you have the bell cow quarterback, it works. You have to have the key guy. If you don't have the key guy, it doesn't matter.”

- Mike Brown, 2000

"If you don't have a productive quarterback, you won't go anywhere. I know it doesn't seem that simple, but it is. He's the hub of the wheel like a queen on a chessboard. These other guys are like rooks or bishops or other pieces that are not quite as valuable. Some are more valuable than others. That's just a fact."

- Mike Brown, 1999

+++

Well there you go! All of you jonesing for a new quarterback in 2020 are about to get your wish because you’re in line with Mike Brown’s core beliefs. Yeah, he spouted that twaddle 20 years ago but you know he still believes it because he never changes anything.

The Bengals will take Tua Tagovailoa or Joe Burrow and Mikey Boy will think everything is coming up roses — but they aren’t.

This kind of narrow thinking created the 1999s with “bell cow quarterbacks” who never amounted to anything: Jeff Blake, Akili Smith, David Klingler and even Jon Kitna. Tua or Joe will get flattened, just like Andy Dalton and like Carson Palmer before him.

This carousel of “quarterback only” crap has to stop before Cincinnati starts to look like Cleveland.

Mike didn’t learn anything from his football genius father. Paul Brown knew a great team builds from the trenches outward. He proved it in Cleveland sixty years ago and this is the reason Cincinnati hasn’t won a playoff game since his death in 1991.

(10-13-2019, 07:49 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Sixty, fifty, forty, thirty...that's how long ago "building from the trenches" was a viable way to build a team. It's not the way it's done now and it seems no matter how many examples i give, a few people keep saying this and it just doesn't work in the free agency era. 

Mike Brown's "bell cow QB" (what a stupid term, amirite?) hasn't worked, because he and the people he hires are inept at finding a QB that has traits to help a team contend for a SB. His attempts in the '90 were just bad QBs. Carson had the body and arm talent but not the ability to make throws in the clutch, just like Dalton has the ability to put up some numbers in the regular season but can't do it in crunch time either. 

Turn on the Jets v Cowboys and see how a good, young QB makes a difference on an 0-4 Jets team, and then...someone, anyone, please try to come back and tell me how no one can win on this team. It's short-sighted, ignorant (you know, the literal definition, not the insult), lazy BS. 

(10-13-2019, 08:15 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I personally like my plan the most where we upgrade QB AND the oline at the same time.

It's a crazy concept, but I think we can make it work if we try.

(10-13-2019, 08:15 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I personally like my plan the most where we upgrade QB AND the oline at the same time.

It's a crazy concept, but I think we can make it work if we try.

(10-13-2019, 07:20 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: “If you have the bell cow quarterback, it works. You have to have the key guy. If you don't have the key guy, it doesn't matter.”

- Mike Brown, 2000

"If you don't have a productive quarterback, you won't go anywhere. I know it doesn't seem that simple, but it is. He's the hub of the wheel like a queen on a chessboard. These other guys are like rooks or bishops or other pieces that are not quite as valuable. Some are more valuable than others. That's just a fact."

- Mike Brown, 1999

+++

Well there you go!  All of you jonesing for a new quarterback in 2020 are about to get your wish because you’re in line with Mike Brown’s core beliefs.  Yeah, he spouted that twaddle 20 years ago but you know he still believes it because he never changes anything.  

The Bengals will take Tua Tagovailoa or Joe Burrow and Mikey Boy will think everything is coming up roses — but they aren’t.

This kind of narrow thinking created the 1999s with “bell cow quarterbacks” who never amounted to anything:  Jeff Blake, Akili Smith, David Klingler and even Jon Kitna.  Tua or Joe will get flattened, just like Andy Dalton and like Carson Palmer before him.

This carousel of “quarterback only” crap has to stop before Cincinnati starts to look like Cleveland.

Mike didn’t learn anything from his football genius father.  Paul Brown knew a great team builds from the trenches outward.  He proved it in Cleveland sixty years ago and this is the reason Cincinnati hasn’t won a playoff game since his death in 1991.

Quote:I hope for any kids sake that he doesn't get sentenced to play in Cincinnati. Between 2:08 to 2:13

(10-13-2019, 08:07 PM)WhodeyRay Wrote: This is not valid. You quote the jets and cowboys. Look at the trenches! The spent money in the trenches. Look at Dallas in the Romo era. Great playmakers and horrible trench play and they could not win. Look at New England. They always build the line to give Brady all day to throw. Name one successful team that has a bad line.

(10-13-2019, 08:15 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I personally like my plan the most where we upgrade QB AND the oline at the same time.

It's a crazy concept, but I think we can make it work if we try.

(10-13-2019, 08:47 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Bingo. Take your QB in the 1st, then go OL, LB, etc the rest of the way.

And use the 20 million you’ll save on Dalton to bring in a quality FA or two.

(10-13-2019, 09:46 PM)jj22 Wrote: We'd have to hit on all 7 picks.

It's just not realistic to fix this thing in one year.

So the plan is to bring a franchise QB into this mess. With all the aging vets over 30 on 3rd contracts, and a coach who is trying to establish a winning system.

My fear is we get the QB and by the time the rest of the holes are filled it's 4 years down the line with 4-12/6-10 seasons that have fans calling for is backup to start.

People aren't patient enough for a rebuild. They'll find someone to blame, and it's typically the HC and/or QB. We need a run of top 5 picks, especially if the FO isn't going to stockpile picks for multiple 1st round picks in the next couple drafts.

Our best bet for that may be sticking with Dalton another year and using that 1st or 2nd overall pick to get extra picks to plug some of these holes and build the team/foundation/system then plug in the QB.

With that said I'd understand/expect a qb pick with the top 2 picks.

(10-13-2019, 09:46 PM)jj22 Wrote: We'd have to hit on all 7 picks.

It's just not realistic to fix this thing in one year.

So the plan is to bring a franchise QB into this mess. With all the aging vets over 30 on 3rd contracts, and a coach who is trying to establish a winning system.

My fear is we get the QB and by the time the rest of the holes are filled it's 4 years down the line with 4-12/6-10 seasons that have fans calling for is backup to start.

People aren't patient enough for a rebuild. They'll find someone to blame, and it's typically the HC and/or QB. We need a run of top 5 picks, especially if the FO isn't going to stockpile picks for multiple 1st round picks in the next couple drafts.

Our best bet for that may be sticking with Dalton another year and using that 1st or 2nd overall pick to get extra picks to plug some of these holes and build the team/foundation/system then plug in the QB.

With that said I'd understand/expect a qb pick with the top 2 picks.

(10-13-2019, 07:38 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: I’m going to get flamed hard for this — and I don’t care — but I would not draft a quarterback in 2020; not early anyway.  I would go best offensive lineman available then best linebacker available then back to offensive line and back to linebacker until I’m done making picks.  Then, among undrafted free agents, I would nab every defensive lineman I can.

(10-13-2019, 10:33 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: You draft QBs for the next decade, not the next year.

In an ideal world, you only have a top 5 pick once every ~10 years in the NFL. If you're given an opportunity at an elite level QB, especially when you have a veteran on the last year of his contract and a decent young back up, you take it.

You don't have to fix the whole team in 1 year and you don't need to even play the new QB in his rookie year.

You can draft guards and tackles in the 2nd and 3rd round and they will be improvements over what we have now (It's hard not to be an improvement over Andre Smith, Bobby Hart and John Jerry) but the same can't really be said about QBs. 

Of the 32 starting QBs in the NFL, 22 are first rounders, 15 of which are top 10 picks. And 1 had their top 10 pick unexpectedly retire (Indy) and another has a top 15 pick waiting in the wings (Washington). The exceptions being Dak Prescott, Andy Dalton, Gardner Minshew (we'll see if he lasts), Jacoby Brissett, Kirk Cousins, Jimmy G, Colt McCoy (Haskins will replace soon), Derek Carr, Tom Brady and Russell Wilson. The point being, QBs are one of the only positions where you basically only find elite players in the first round with a hand full of exceptions. So when you are given the option to get an elite one, I say you take it, regardless of what the rest of your team looks like (assuming you do need a QB, which we do.)