(11-06-2019, 08:32 PM)I_C_DeadPeople Wrote: They are trying to be a POS, so far so good.

This team has no concept of building a roster or team chemistry, they just put 53 players on the roster and they are done. There is no Master Plan, no strategy, no critical thinking, no gap analysis, etc. They just exist year to year.

(11-06-2019, 07:17 PM)kevin Wrote: OK, we know the front office isn't going anywhere.   I also doubt they are firing coaches as they did in 2017, 2018 and start of 2019. I'm not ruling it out, but changing coaches every year doesn't seem to be helping.  In fact one could say they can't draft enough to keep up with the coaching changes.

So something other than the negative this team has thrown me in as a fan.   Baltimore knows what they want to be.  New England knows what they want to be.  Pittsburgh is consistent on what they want to be.  Just what in the heck do the Bengals want to be ?   I'm serious.  What kind of a defense do they want to be from 2020 to 2030 ?   What kind of an offense ?    They need a blueprint or a plan.  Without a plan, all Drafts are pointless.   For example, Paul Brown starting Browns and then starting Bengals had an idea of what the heck he wanted.  Without THAT, everything becomes pointless.  You can't just go off willy nilly and hope for the best.   I look at the Dynasty teams and the NFL Championships, I don't see Luck.  I see a solid plan of Attack.

So I'm looking past the next game and past this awful season now.  I'm not even looking at what fans say about the Draft.   We know the O Line is weak.  We know the Defense is weak.  Both have been weak at least the last 3 years. The question in rebuilding the blocking and tackling becomes what type of Offense & Defense are they planning ?   Without a solid plan of attack, all is pointless.

I can easily say that I liked what Tony Dungy did in Tampa and Indy on Defense and in the drafts on D he wanted SPEED, even on the Line and Front 7, SPEED.  Get to the play. You can't make the play if you can't get to it.   Bengals D are awful tacklers, worst in NFL.   They are also slow and a step too late to make the play. That is from front to back including some over rated D Backs.  I also like the players the Steelers draft every year, often the players I wish Bengals had taken, such as Bengals passing on DeCastro.  Steelers get the Big Boys that can block and tackle every draft, it's not Luck their Super Bowls.

On Offense I liked the draft picks used to build the Bengals O Line of the 1980's, and they drafted many top blockers that decade of 2 Super Bowl trips.  I have seen the great Packers O Line of Lombardi.  The great Washington HOGS of the 70's and 80's.  The great line of Parcells with Giants knocking teams 5 yards back on every snap.  The best was Oakland as 00 walked to center and team followed.  Jim Otto, Gene Upshaw, Art Shell were the reason that team could run and throw at will.  

But it doesn't matter what I like or other fans like.  What does matter is that this front office and coaches in the middle of 1-15 over last 16 games come up with a Plan Of Attack for the 2020's.   You can't just say, Boy there is this college quarterback and he looks really good.  That is grade school stuff.   More important is what kind of an O Line and Defense do they want in the 2020's.   Make a Plan and start Drafting to build them.   THAT is what winning dynasty teams do.  They do not sit there on Draft Day and throw darts at names on a dart board. The GREAT teams know what they are doing BEFORE they do it.

The Bengals have 3 months before Senior Bowl. Then Free Agency. Then Combine. Then in 5 months The Draft.  It's time they make the long range Plan Of Attack, and get ready.   They need to look now at who on this team Fits their long range plans.  There are 2011 players who the Window Of Opportunity closed on.  Trade top names for extra picks if needed, this team is a loser now anyway.  Build for the Future.  GET IT DONE.

I see this team at 1-15 last games as in Expansion Team Mode.   Taking a QB at #1 would be silly unless he is Superman, and there is no Superman.  In Expansion Team Rebuild Mode, try to have many picks and know THE TYPE players you are looking for, as many as you can get in 2020.   I have given up on 2019 in September.   I have not gave up on the next Decade, BUT, they NEED to decide What The Heck They Are Doing and Building.   I think drafting a quarterback and telling him to go win with the worst team in NFL is just too grade school approach.  They need a better Plan Of Attack for the next decade than that.  They will find people to QB in 2020.  In 2020 start Drafting blocking and tackling for a top pick QB in to be a part of later.  Build It And He Will Come.

On this, I say for the first time in over a month, GO BENGALS. ...Get A Plan and Build IT.

Forrest Gregg won 6 games his first year, but I SAW the improvement.   The next year he went Super Bowl.   I could accept 6 wins in 2020 IF I SAW the improvement that I saw in 1980.

(11-06-2019, 11:14 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Bro, Taylor took a 6 win team and turned it into a 0 win team. There should NOT be a next season for him.

 

(11-07-2019, 02:52 AM)Pat5775 Wrote: I’ve seen plenty of “Fire Marv” and “Mike Brown step down” signs at PBS over the years (television and social media). I have yet to see a single fan holding a sign or wearing a bag that says “Fire Duke Tobin”. Have there been any billboards?

Get with it, Cincinnati. Duke Tobin is a major problem now.

(11-06-2019, 11:14 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Bro, Taylor took a 6 win team and turned it into a 0 win team. There should NOT be a next season for him.

 

(11-06-2019, 11:14 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Bro, Taylor took a 6 win team and turned it into a 0 win team. There should NOT be a next season for him.

 

(11-07-2019, 02:36 AM)kevin Wrote: I'm not defending Taylor, but the team went 1-7 last half of last season and that is with firing D coach, Marvin taking over D and Hue coming in after losing just about every game while at Cleveland.  No last year was awful and it's carried over to this year.  1-15 over last 8 of 2018 and first 8 of 2019.  

I agree with those who posted, the only identity this team has is losing.  There doesn't seem much rhyme or reason to the draft picks over the last 4 or 5 years either.   I'm NOT a Tobin fan and he should have got fired with all the other coaches over the last couple seasons.   Problem is The Browns and Blackburns consider him Family now also, I don't know why, maybe inbreeding.  Tobin may be in for life now like the Pope, like the rest of them, but he shouldn't be.   

Look, Tobin is the GM and manager of player personnel.  He has been an executive with Bengals since 1999.   Their loyalty to him is longer than to Marvin Lewis.  Seems to me Bengals could hire a better GM than this guy.  All I read on old stories on internet is Browns and Blackburns consider him part of the FAMILY.   I see that as a problem.  You have to be able to Fire supervisors and managers, not just the workers under them.  Heck, there have been 4 Presidents and 3 Popes while Tobin here.  This means Tobin goes back to when they used that stupid Cincinnati Drug Store List to draft from.  It also means he was part of turning down Mike Ditka offering all Saints draft picks and Saints top picks next 2 years for that one Bengals pick, why Paul Brown would have grabbed that gaff by Ditka in a second.   So if Mike Brown is part of the losing from 1991 to now, Tobin isn't much better from 1999 to now.  He came in young as a guy that couldn't even play Arena League.  He seems to be a weak link in the chain they could cut loose, but he is now considered FAMILY a he pushes age 50. 

Tobin got and took all the credit for hiring Zac Taylor early this year.  I leave that to you fans on that move.  

Maybe this team finds no sense of Direction or Plan until they fire Tobin.   He can't be in like the Pope.  GMs and Head Coaches have to be able to be FIRED.  They can't be in for life as FAMILY.  The problem is a new so called GM is going to want to set a Direction and make a long range Plan and Mike, Katie and The Brady Bunch are afraid of THAT.   Still, without Direction and Plan the Bengals are Doomed.   A car without a steering wheel going into one crash season after another. 

So The Brown Family are going nowhere, we know that.   Why is Tobin considered Brown Family, who did he fornicate with ?  In the last 8 awful games of this awful season they need to start deciding just WHAT THE HECK THE PLAN OF THE FUTURE IS.  Without a PLAN, the 2020 Draft is POINTLESS. 

I have a bad gut feeling that Tobin wasn't even a good Arena League player, and what he puts on the field is Arena League but it's not and never will be good enough for NFL.  It is too weak and too Touch Footyball to win in THE NFL.   I have a bad feeling Bengals are trying to play Arena League, and therefore 1-15 over last 16 games.   Maybe they think Taylor will make a good Arena League coach.  They all need to wake up and understand THIS IS THE NFL.  You need to Block, you need to Tackle, or You Lose.  It's not Arena League.  Of course Bengals were losing before Taylor and 1-7 last 8 under Marvin, but Mike and Royal Family was here, as was Royal Family Duke.  Not Duke like John Wayne, but just a Royal Family Title Duke who wormed in as Family somehow.  ......I hope my gut feeling is wrong, because this team needs to find DIRECTION and a PLAN OF ATTACK way before they enter off season to a New Decade.  So we can all say GO BENGALS and feel we aren't just full of whimsy.  

I think THE FANS deserve a steering wheel to be put on this thing...You know Dalton has had at least 5 Offensive coordinators.  I think 4 changes in 3 years. Have you ever tried to bowl and one person says move to the right, another says move to the left, another says stand in the middle.  Makes it pretty hard to bowl doesn't it.   You ever worked somewhere that changes your Supervisors like 4 in 5 years, because I once did and it made being good at ones job impossible since the job kept changing.   I just have to think the crazy steering wheel thing has hurt every player on this team.  There is no DIRECTION, just a lot of changes, but Never Direction or a Plan or Purpose, which never works.  Put a steering wheel on this thing.

Some may say don't blame Tobin for 1999 and on and he really didn't move up to simulated GM until 2016.  Well, if you look at this team from 2016 on, that isn't too good either.   Most NFL teams would have sent him packing with the coaches fired over last 3 years.  Somebody upstairs needs to put a steering wheel on this thing or the Drafts are Pointless.  Would you put new tires on a car with no steering wheel, of course not.

(11-07-2019, 11:03 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Worth pointing out the Bengals without AJ Green last year were 1-6. And this season they are 0-8.
So in a way, Taylor took a 1-6 team to 0-8 

(I'm trying to find any somewhat optimistic spin I can)

(11-07-2019, 11:47 AM)jason Wrote: I'm not impressed with him either... My only reservation about firing him is that any potential candidates will see that he wasn't given any time. I think Marvin hanging around for 16 years was sorta a selling point to potential replacements last year. I think Zac Taylor has been piss poor though.

(11-07-2019, 12:31 PM)BengalChris Wrote: I understand the 1-6 thing, but also understand that 5 1/2 of those games were with Driskel and all of them were without Eifert.

Hiring Taylor was a typical Mike Brown mistake. A lazy hire based on talking points and not on actual substance.

Taylor had his pick of all assistants, something Marvin didn't have for years. He also, presumably had a hand this is awful draft.

Taylor was a bad mistake and the sooner the team corrects that mistake the sooner it can get to winning football games.

Unfortunately, for the team, they now look like a bunch of clowns, and they are.

To obtain any credibility they'll need to hire a real GM to get a decent coaching staff.

The way things are now, the top QB prospects may just tell the team to not draft them cause they won't sign with such a joke of a franchise. I really do believe that that is what we are faced with at this point and you can be sure that agents will be telling their clients just that and Carson Palmer will be re-enforcing that idea every chance he gets.

 

(11-07-2019, 12:34 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Hearing how the organization talks about AJ Green, they think his absence is the biggest reason why this team isn't winning. And because of that, that's why they (supposedly) want to keep him around.

(11-07-2019, 12:42 PM)BengalChris Wrote: A group of morons can sit at a table and convince themselves of an awful lot of untrue things.

If this coaching staff were any good they'd have figured out how to use to put the guys they have to better use. They've lost resoundingly to two winless teams so far. Now the Bengals are the only winless team left.

 

 

(11-07-2019, 12:31 PM)BengalChris Wrote: The way things are now, the top QB prospects may just tell the team to not draft them cause they won't sign with such a joke of a franchise. I really do believe that that is what we are faced with at this point and you can be sure that agents will be telling their clients just that and Carson Palmer will be re-enforcing that idea every chance he gets.

 

(11-06-2019, 09:36 PM)Circleville Guy Wrote: Their plan every year is to first, make money. Secondly, if they can just get more wins than the Browns then they’re not the worst team in the division or the state. My guess is that their goals don’t go beyond that. Anything more is just icing on their fat cake.

(11-07-2019, 01:31 PM)Nately120 Wrote: We will see how the Dalton thing plays out, but right now he's an example of what happens if you don't pull a d-bag move like Carson Palmer and demand a trade...you take a friendly deal, get pummeled, get a D-grade HC and then get benched and not traded.  Geez, that's a shining example of how Mike Brown and the Bengals treat players who actually try to be good soldiers and follow orders.

It's a no-win situation.  You either quit on the team or the team quits on you.  Play nice and get your ass on that bench, and NO I won't trade you to another team.  Sit down and shut up.  Dalton could be beyond repair, but the guy still has a winning record as a QB even with the 0-8 season ZT and his band of barely-employable underlings have spearheaded.

(11-07-2019, 01:41 PM)bengals1969 Wrote: Cordy Glenn's mutiny will resonate with free agents and draft picks as well.  There was a time, pre-Marvin, when free agents love for Cincinnati was inversely proportional to their talent.  I'd hate to see those days return.

(11-06-2019, 08:39 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: I think the Bengals need to allow ZT to purge the Lewis era roster, and bring in his own guys to establish team identify.  

With that said, It is clear to me thus far that the ZT blue print is a hybrid type of west coast passing.  Not a running or bruising identity.  I get the sense that Taylor wants fast fluid guys over brunt force.   Maybe when they fix the OL, they can do some no huddle.