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The last time we traded back in the 1st... - Nicomo Cosca - 01-02-2020
We missed out on our guy we really wanted in Frank Ragnow, and ended up with Billy Price. Who is honestly in the running with Ross and Ogbuehi and our biggest bust in recent memory. There is no guarantee trading back will work out.
It’s inconceivable to me that I’m still seeing people talking about trading the #1OA at this point. I’d maybe understand if we were set with a young franchise QB already, and there was no unanimous #1 pick, but it couldn’t have worked out any better for us to finally bottom out in a year with a stud QB prospect coming out.
Please stop overthinking it so much. There’s no reason to get cute. Just make obvious choice and draft Joe Burrow. Period.
/end rant
RE: The last time we traded back in the 1st... - Forever Spinning Vinyl - 01-02-2020
Yeah, how dare anybody think differently than you.
Miss on an o-lineman picked in the 20s once so never trade back again. Taking an early QB on a shit team got us two winning seasons out of eight after Palmer was drafted but it also led to Klingler and Akili. So we should just forget about that but don't forget about Billy Price?
The last first round QB drafted in the last 15 years to win a Super Bowl was drafted in 2008, Joe Flacco
1st round QBs since 2005
2019:
1. Kyler Murray
6. Daniel Jones
15 Dwayne Haskins
2018:
1. Baker Mayfield
3. Sam Darnold
7. Josh Allen
10. Josh Rosen
32. Lamar Jackson
2017:
2. Mitchel Trubisky
10. Patrick Mahomes
12. DeShaun Watson
2016:
1. Jared Goff - 1 Super Bowl loss
2. Carson Wentz - had a great partial season but it was Nick Foles that got them the Super Bowl title
26. Paxton Lynch
2015:
1. Jameis Winston
2. Marcus Mariota
2014:
3. Blake Bortles
22. Johnny Manziel
32. Teddy Bridgewater
2013:
16. EJ Manuel
2012:
1. Andrew Luck
2. Robert Griffin III
8. Ryan Tannehill
22. Brandon Weeden
2011:
1. Cam Newton - 1 Super Bowl loss
8. Jake Locker
10. Blaine Gabbert
12. Christian Ponder
2010:
1. Sam Bradford
25. Tim Tebow
2009:
1. Matthew Stafford
5. Mark Sanchez
17. Josh Freeman
2008:
3. Matt Ryan - 1 Super Bowl loss
18. Joe Flacco - 1 Super Bowl Championship
2007:
1. JaMarcus Russell
22. Brady Quinn
2006:
3. Vince Young
10. Matt Leinart
11. Jay Cutler
2005:
1. Alex Smith
24. Aaron Rodgers - 1 Super Bowl Championship
25. Jason Campbell
From 2005 to 2016, 32 first round QBs were drafted. Most of them never saw a 2nd contract with the team that drafted them.
5 Super Bowl berths by 5 different QBs.
2 Super Bowl Championships - Flacco(#18 overall) and Rodgers(#24 overall).
Both of those QBs went to good teams. Flacco always played with a great defense and would have never made the Super Bowl if not for a terrible play on a Hail Mary by a safety at the end of the Bronco playoff game. In fact, if Ray Rice doesn't take a short dump off for a 1st down on 4th and 29 against the Chargers, they wouldn't have even made the playoffs that season.
Rodgers sat for three years and then he took over a team that lost in the Championship game and went 13-3 the year before. He prepared for the Bears, Lions and Vikings and studied their rosters seven times each before he ever faced them as a starter.
More recently, Mahomes took over a team that went 9-6 before Mahomes started the final game of the season.
One loss by 11 points(@ Cowboys)
Five losses by seven points or less
Three wins by eight points or less (Mahomes 3 point win)
Seven wins by more than 8 points
All of that with a stiff like Alex Smith at QB.
1st round QBs usually do well when they move onto good teams. For some reason, 1st round QBs that move onto bad teams don't seem to last too long.
RE: The last time we traded back in the 1st... - Nicomo Cosca - 01-02-2020
You’re talking about winning Super Bowls right now? Lol. Let’s worry about getting back to being relevant again first. And Burrow is the most likely way to do that. Take the QB and build around him.
Flacco might be the only 1st round QB to win a SB in your cherry picked time frame, but others have made runs like Cam, and Goff just last year.
I also think that trend changes soon with some of the high end young talented QB’s like Jackson, Mahomes, and Watson that are tearing the league up.
RE: The last time we traded back in the 1st... - Nicomo Cosca - 01-02-2020
I also like how you picked 2005 as your cutoff so you wouldn’t have to include multiple other
1st round SB winning QB’s in Eli and Ben from 2004 lol. You must of studied at the Fred Toast school of cherry picking lol
RE: The last time we traded back in the 1st... - Forever Spinning Vinyl - 01-02-2020
(01-02-2020, 08:48 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I also like how you picked 2005 as your cutoff so you wouldn’t have to include multiple other
1st round SB winning QB’s in Eli and Ben from 2004 lol. You must of studied at the Fred Toast school of cherry picking lol
Billy Price?
RE: The last time we traded back in the 1st... - Nicomo Cosca - 01-02-2020
(01-02-2020, 08:52 AM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: Billy Price?
How did I cherry pick Billy Price as an example? It was literally the last time we traded back in the 1st, and it ended disastrously. Price is a total bust, Glenn had to be fined to get him to even play this year, and the guy we actually wanted is playing very well up in Detroit (graded out at 74.4).
RE: The last time we traded back in the 1st... - Forever Spinning Vinyl - 01-02-2020
So you going back two seasons is legit.
Me going back 15 years is Cherry Picking.
Don't you get dizzy from all of that spinning?
RE: The last time we traded back in the 1st... - Nicomo Cosca - 01-02-2020
(01-02-2020, 09:00 AM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: So you going back two seasons is legit.
Me going back 15 years is Cherry Picking.
Don't you get dizzy from all of that spinning?
Do you think the last time we traded back worked out well for us? In your opinion would we have been better off staying at 12 and taking someone other than Billy Price?
Simple yes or no answers will suffice.
RE: The last time we traded back in the 1st... - Forever Spinning Vinyl - 01-02-2020
No
Do you consider Carson Palmer a success?
Akili?
Klingler?
Jack Thompson?
Greg Cook was good but he didn't last long.
1st round QBs don't do well in Cincinnati for some reason. Dalton and Boomer were 2nd rounders and Anderson was a 3rd. Palmer had two winning seasons and one of those was after they switched to a run first offense in 2009. Ignore it all you want.
RE: The last time we traded back in the 1st... - Nicomo Cosca - 01-02-2020
(01-02-2020, 09:11 AM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: No
Do you consider Carson Palmer a success?
Akili?
Klingler?
Jack Thompson?
Greg Cook was good but he didn't last long.
1st round QBs don't do well in Cincinnati for some reason. Dalton and Boomer were 2nd rounders and Anderson was a 3rd. Palmer had two winning seasons and one of those was after they switched to a run first offense in 2009. Ignore it all you want.
I was s big Palmer fan, so yes I think he was a good QB for us. Palmer and Chad, and that offense reignited my interest in the Bengals after many years of indifference. Who knows how things would have gone if he hadn’t of gotten injured. Was it a success? You mentioned Dalton as a success but he has the exact same amount of playoff wins as a Bengal as Palmer.
But it’s obvious that anything Joe Burrow has done (might do), this thread, or anything else is not going to convince you or the very few that are still against taking the QB that trading the pick would be a mistake. You’re just too dug in. I thought that insane performance in the college playoffs would put a rest to the debate, but people will always surprise you I suppose...
RE: The last time we traded back in the 1st... - bengalfan74 - 01-02-2020
Both ?
Why is it some people are so determined if we draft Burrow it's over ? Kaput, that's it, no chance at anything else, fold up the tents, go home, cancel the rest of the draft, we're done. I don't understand this line of thinking at all.
Do we not have pick #33 ? #65 and so on. Can't we trade Dalton and whoever else for picks ? Or is that out the window to if we draft Burrow at 1OA ?
If we're gonna draft Burrow is there a rule we can't use free agency ?
Why can't we have both ? Why
RE: The last time we traded back in the 1st... - Nicomo Cosca - 01-02-2020
(01-02-2020, 09:35 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Both ?
Why is it some people are so determined if we draft Burrow it's over ? Kaput, that's it, no chance at anything else, fold up the tents, go home, cancel the rest of the draft, we're done. I don't understand this line of thinking at all.
Do we not have pick #33 ? #65 and so on. Can't we trade Dalton and whoever else for picks ? Or is that out the window to if we draft Burrow at 1OA ?
If we're gonna draft Burrow is there a rule we can't use free agency ?
Why can't we have both ? Why
Exactly. My point was just not to trade in the 1st round. After that we should have more flexibility to make some moves.
RE: The last time we traded back in the 1st... - Nately120 - 01-02-2020
(01-02-2020, 08:48 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I also like how you picked 2005 as your cutoff so you wouldn’t have to include multiple other
1st round SB winning QB’s in Eli and Ben from 2004 lol. You must of studied at the Fred Toast school of cherry picking lol
Eli isn't a great example because he was selected by a ringless franchise with a not so great history and he pulled an Elway. A 1st pick QB dodging a bad franchise and getting 2 rings for it is something worth ignoring now that we are on the clock.
I will say that Ben like Mahommes is a good example of a franchise that doesn't wait until their starter is gone or cooked to bring in a high replacement. Neither of those guys speak to well to what we are doing.
But yes, that is a suspicious cut off point.
RE: The last time we traded back in the 1st... - Nicomo Cosca - 01-02-2020
(01-02-2020, 09:48 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Eli isn't a great example because he was selected by a ringless franchise with a not so great history and he pulled an Elway. A 1st pick QB dodging a bad franchise and getting 2 rings for it is something worth ignoring now that we are on the clock.
I will say that Ben like Mahommes is a good example of a franchise that doesn't wait until their starter is gone or cooked to bring in a high replacement. Neither of those guys speak to well to what we are doing.
But yes, that is a suspicious cut off point.
People really need to stop worrying about the Eli scenario with Burrow. Go watch his Heisman speech and tell me you could see this kid doing that...
RE: The last time we traded back in the 1st... - BonnieBengal - 01-02-2020
All I know for sure is that we are missing a lot of pieces, not just QB, and if we can get a bidding war going for Burrow, we should at least think about it.
RE: The last time we traded back in the 1st... - Fan_in_Kettering - 01-02-2020
I'm all for rolling the dice and taking a chance on drafting Joe Burrow but I want ONE more data point: The upcoming game against Clemson. Oklahoma's pass defense was, um, ah, let's be charitable and call it "porous." This does not take away anything from the quality passes Joe Burrow threw. Even if the windows are not so tight the passes still have to be thrown on target -- and they were.
Clemson presents a different problem than Oklahoma. Brent Venables is arguably the best defensive coordinator in college football and his pass defense is formidable. This will be Joe Burrow's hardest test -- a football version of a final examination -- and I hope he gets the highest grade possible.
RE: The last time we traded back in the 1st... - Nately120 - 01-02-2020
(01-02-2020, 09:52 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: People really need to stop worrying about the Eli scenario with Burrow. Go watch his Heisman speech and tell me you could see this kid doing that...
Im not worried, I'm just saying there are examples of players pouting their way into SB rings.
Burrow, like Dalton will probably be here until we lock him out.
RE: The last time we traded back in the 1st... - jason - 01-02-2020
(01-02-2020, 09:56 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Im not worried, I'm just saying there are examples of players pouting their way into SB rings.
Burrow, like Dalton will probably be here until we lock him out.
Guy looks like a quitter to me. I can spot them a mile away. Once I see them in a Bengals uniform it becomes very clear.
RE: The last time we traded back in the 1st... - RunKijanaRun - 01-02-2020
(01-02-2020, 10:06 AM)jason Wrote: Guy looks like a quitter to me. I can spot them a mile away. Once I see them in a Bengals uniform it becomes very clear.
Wait, Burrow looks like a quitter?
RE: The last time we traded back in the 1st... - MEBengalsFan - 01-02-2020
(01-02-2020, 02:05 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: We missed out on our guy we really wanted in Frank Ragnow, and ended up with Billy Price. Who is honestly in the running with Ross and Ogbuehi and our biggest bust in recent memory. There is no guarantee trading back will work out.
It’s inconceivable to me that I’m still seeing people talking about trading the #1OA at this point. I’d maybe understand if we were set with a young franchise QB already, and there was no unanimous #1 pick, but it couldn’t have worked out any better for us to finally bottom out in a year with a stud QB prospect coming out.
Please stop overthinking it so much. There’s no reason to get cute. Just make obvious choice and draft Joe Burrow. Period.
/end rant
I honestly feel the team failed on purpose. For most of the games this past season the Bengals were in the games but the offense and defense didn't seem to show up for the full game during those loses it honestly felt like the team tanked on purpose.