+- Cincinnati Bengals Message Board / Forums - Home of Jungle Noise (https://thebengalsboard.com)
+-- Forum: Cincinnati Bengals / NFL (https://thebengalsboard.com/forum-3.html)
+--- Forum: JUNGLE NOISE (https://thebengalsboard.com/forum-2.html)
+--- Thread: What a franchise QB can do (/thread-22839.html)
What a franchise QB can do - Bengalfan4life27c - 01-20-2020
Besides for the obvious I'm going to state some of the more not so obvious.
1 Help with the running game if a QB is deadly accurate D's can't stuff the box to stop the run.
2 You never feel your out of a game regardless of score.
3 Defense tends to be more well rested because rarely are you going to have a bunch of 3 and outs
4 Inspiring franchise QB's elevate the play of the rest of the team.
5 you tend to keep assistants longer because NFL teams tend not to give credit to coaching as much because its all Mahomes, Brady, Brees etc....
RE: What a franchise QB can do - Nate (formerly eliminate08) - 01-20-2020
(01-20-2020, 02:16 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: Besides for the obvious I'm going to state some of the more not so obvious.
1 Help with the running game if a QB is deadly accurate D's can't stuff the box to stop the run.
2 You never feel your out of a game regardless of score.
3 Defense tends to be more well rested because rarely are you going to have a bunch of 3 and outs
4 Inspiring franchise QB's elevate the play of the rest of the team.
5 you tend to keep assistants longer because NFL teams tend not to give credit to coaching as much because its all Mahomes, Brady, Brees etc....
All true, it is why a Franchise QB is the most important player to have. Sure there are exceptions like Dilfer where the team
can carry a QB but most of the time you have to have a great QB to win a Superbowl. Joe Montana carried the Niners over
us in the 80's in that Superbowl. Would of been different if they had a Dilfer like QB, they wouldn't of had a chance.
I think Joe Burrow is like Joe Montana like just like Joel Klatt said. Is cool in the pocket, is smart and can move.
RE: What a franchise QB can do - higgy100 - 01-20-2020
(01-20-2020, 02:16 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: Besides for the obvious I'm going to state some of the more not so obvious.
1 Help with the running game if a QB is deadly accurate D's can't stuff the box to stop the run.
2 You never feel your out of a game regardless of score.
3 Defense tends to be more well rested because rarely are you going to have a bunch of 3 and outs
4 Inspiring franchise QB's elevate the play of the rest of the team.
5 you tend to keep assistants longer because NFL teams tend not to give credit to coaching as much because its all Mahomes, Brady, Brees etc....
6. Bengals getting on the both front page and bottom scroll on ESPN/ESPN.com and getting more national discussion than they have since the playoff game with the Steelers 4 years ago..
RE: What a franchise QB can do - RunKijanaRun - 01-20-2020
(01-20-2020, 03:39 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I think Joe Burrow is Joe Montana
There is absolutely no truth to the rumors that Bengals fans' expectations are out of whack for Burrow.
RE: What a franchise QB can do - Nate (formerly eliminate08) - 01-20-2020
(01-20-2020, 03:41 PM)RunKijanaRun Wrote: There is absolutely no truth to the rumors that Bengals fans' expectations are out of whack for Burrow.
I meant to say LIKE Joe Montana lol
RE: What a franchise QB can do - RunKijanaRun - 01-20-2020
(01-20-2020, 03:45 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I meant to say LIKE Joe Montana lol
A very important preposition
RE: What a franchise QB can do - Nate (formerly eliminate08) - 01-20-2020
(01-20-2020, 03:47 PM)RunKijanaRun Wrote: A very important preposition
Yes, thanks for seeing that.
RE: What a franchise QB can do - Shake n Blake - 01-20-2020
(01-20-2020, 03:45 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I meant to say LIKE Joe Montana lol
I still think Joe is the GOAT, or at least the most clutch QB of all-time. Sure, Brady has a longer resume (played forever, stayed with his legendary coach), but Joe's Super Bowl numbers will never be touched. 122 passer rating, 11 TD's to 0 picks.
Joe's playoff passer rating of 95.6 is much higher than Brady's 89.8 despite Joe playing in a much tougher era for passing. Joe's passer rating went UP in the playoffs while Brady's went down.
Not hating on Brady, but there are a lot of arguments for why Joe was more impressive. He also led a different team to a conference title game. He just didn't have Brady's longevity (partly due to the roughness of that era), nor did he get to stay with his original team/coach and rack up more rings, which I have little doubt he would have.
---------
To the OP, an elite QB can do a lot for us, but to be a title contender, we need good coaching and a more willing front office. Name the QB who did it all himself. It just doesn't happen. I love Burrow, but that kind of pressure shouldn't be placed on his shoulder's alone. We'll ruin him that way.
RE: What a franchise QB can do - Bengalfan4life27c - 01-20-2020
(01-20-2020, 04:23 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I still think Joe is the GOAT, or at least the most clutch QB of all-time. Sure, Brady has a longer resume (played forever, stayed with his legendary coach), but Joe's Super Bowl numbers will never be touched. 122 passer rating, 11 TD's to 0 picks.
Joe's playoff passer rating of 95.6 is much higher than Brady's 89.8 despite Joe playing in a much tougher era for passing. Joe's passer rating went UP in the playoffs while Brady's went down.
Not hating on Brady, but there are a lot of arguments for why Joe was more impressive. He also led a different team to a conference title game. He just didn't have Brady's longevity (partly due to the roughness of that era), nor did he get to stay with his original team/coach and rack up more rings, which I have little doubt he would have.
---------
To the OP, an elite QB can do a lot for us, but to be a title contender, we need good coaching and a more willing front office. Name the QB who did it all himself. It just doesn't happen. I love Burrow, but that kind of pressure shouldn't be placed on his shoulder's alone. We'll ruin him that way.
I'm going to name 1 Aaron Rodgers according to many football analytics people Mike Mccarthy is a horrible head coach.
RE: What a franchise QB can do - Hammerstripes - 01-20-2020
The main thing that is does for a team is it opens up the draft. When you have a QB, it's much easier to move around the board and fill less "premium needs" on the team. WRs, S, TEs, OGs, OTs, pass rushers and corners are all much easier to get in the mid to late 1st round as opposed to the premium picks it usually takes to get the elite QB talent.
RE: What a franchise QB can do - Fan_in_Kettering - 01-20-2020
(01-20-2020, 04:23 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: To the OP, an elite QB can do a lot for us, but to be a title contender, we need good coaching and a more willing front office. Name the QB who did it all himself. It just doesn't happen. I love Burrow, but that kind of pressure shouldn't be placed on his shoulders alone. We'll ruin him that way.
Thank you! You understand what’s truly at stake here. If Joe Burrow is the only quality acquisition the Bengals make in the offseason I guarantee you we’ll have the first pick in the draft all over again in 2021.
RE: What a franchise QB can do - Hammerstripes - 01-20-2020
(01-20-2020, 04:31 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Thank you! You understand what’s truly at stake here. If Joe Burrow is the only quality acquisition the Bengals make in the offseason I guarantee you we’ll have the first pick in the draft all over again in 2021.
Doubtful. Any decent QB play would have had this team at 4-5 wins.
That being said, I hope there's enough done in the offseason to get up to 6-7 wins. That would set things up nicely for 2021.
RE: What a franchise QB can do - TheCincinnatiKid - 01-20-2020
QB is the most important position on the roster. They get paid the big bucks. Really is as simple as that.
RE: What a franchise QB can do - TheLeonardLeap - 01-20-2020
(01-20-2020, 04:23 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I still think Joe is the GOAT, or at least the most clutch QB of all-time. Sure, Brady has a longer resume (played forever, stayed with his legendary coach), but Joe's Super Bowl numbers will never be touched. 122 passer rating, 11 TD's to 0 picks.
Joe's playoff passer rating of 95.6 is much higher than Brady's 89.8 despite Joe playing in a much tougher era for passing. Joe's passer rating went UP in the playoffs while Brady's went down.
Not hating on Brady, but there are a lot of arguments for why Joe was more impressive. He also led a different team to a conference title game. He just didn't have Brady's longevity (partly due to the roughness of that era), nor did he get to stay with his original team/coach and rack up more rings, which I have little doubt he would have.
There's 2 huge things that Joe Montana didn't have to worry about, though, Shake. They're two big enough things that I can't help but diminish his accomplishments a bit....
1. Free Agency (didn't start properly until 1993)
2. Salary Cap (didn't exist until 1994)
It's a whole lot easier to keep a team dominant when you don't have to worry about your best players having the ability to leave, or have to worry about having too many good players taking up too much of the non-existent salary cap.
Joe Montana if he were in his prime in 2019 would be making $35m/yr+, and Jerry Rice would be making $22m/yr+... easily.
That's at least $57m/yr out of a $188.2m salary cap for 2 players.
I mean heck, they were able to keep Steve Young, a freaking HoFer, on their bench for his 3rd-6th professional seasons because of a lack of FA.
RE: What a franchise QB can do - Nate (formerly eliminate08) - 01-20-2020
(01-20-2020, 04:23 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I still think Joe is the GOAT, or at least the most clutch QB of all-time. Sure, Brady has a longer resume (played forever, stayed with his legendary coach), but Joe's Super Bowl numbers will never be touched. 122 passer rating, 11 TD's to 0 picks.
Joe's playoff passer rating of 95.6 is much higher than Brady's 89.8 despite Joe playing in a much tougher era for passing. Joe's passer rating went UP in the playoffs while Brady's went down.
Not hating on Brady, but there are a lot of arguments for why Joe was more impressive. He also led a different team to a conference title game. He just didn't have Brady's longevity (partly due to the roughness of that era), nor did he get to stay with his original team/coach and rack up more rings, which I have little doubt he would have.
Feel the same for the reasons you mentioned. Joe cool was the best QB of all time.
RE: What a franchise QB can do - Shake n Blake - 01-20-2020
(01-20-2020, 04:27 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: I'm going to name 1 Aaron Rodgers according to many football analytics people Mike Mccarthy is a horrible head coach.
Aaron Rodgers had a good team around him when he won the Super Bowl. Their defense ranked 5th in yards allowed and 2nd in points allowed. His receiving core boasted the likes of Greg Jennings, Donald Driver, Jordy Nelson and James Jones. There are questions around McCarthy, but he'll have to prove people wrong starting this year. It's debatable on whether those questions are fair or not.
(01-20-2020, 05:01 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: There's 2 huge things that Joe Montana didn't have to worry about, though, Shake. They're two big enough things that I can't help but diminish his accomplishments a bit....
1. Free Agency (didn't start properly until 1993)
2. Salary Cap (didn't exist until 1994)
It's a whole lot easier to keep a team dominant when you don't have to worry about your best players having the ability to leave, or have to worry about having too many good players taking up too much of the non-existent salary cap.
Joe Montana if he were in his prime in 2019 would be making $35m/yr+, and Jerry Rice would be making $22m/yr+... easily.
That's at least $57m/yr out of a $188.2m salary cap for 2 players.
I mean heck, they were able to keep Steve Young, a freaking HoFer, on their bench for his 3rd-6th professional seasons because of a lack of FA.
This would be a better point if Montana didn't win 2 Super Bowls without Rice and Taylor. The 49ers weren't a power house of talent when Montana took over. They were 2-14 the year before Joe took the reigns as starter. Then he led them to 13-3 + ring in his first full season. You wouldn't recognize many of the names on that roster, outside of Ronnie Lott and Dwight Clark (who was a solid player, but no Jerry Rice).
Fair point on the salaries, but we have no idea if Joe would've taken less, ala Brady. Maybe he would have. The Patriots themselves have had no shortage of talent, despite free agency. Some of these names have revolved in and out of that team through the years:
Troy Brown
Lawyer Milloy
Ty Law
Teddy Bruschi
Junior Seau
Darrelle Revis
Randy Moss
Wes Welker
Rob Gronkowski
Julian Edelman
Corey Dillon
Richard Seymour
Vince Wilfork
Mike Vrabel
Willie McGinnest
Donte Stallworth
Adalius Thomas
Ben Watson
Ty Warren
Rodney Harrison
Adalius Thomas
Asante Samuel
Deion Branch
Danny Woodhead
Shane Vereen
Andre Carter
LeGarrette Blount
Jamie Collins
Chandler Jones
Jabaal Sheard
James White
Stephon Gilmore
etc etc
Not to mention 2 of the best kickers in NFL history and a defense that was top 5ish for each of their SB runs. The Patriots have had an embarrassment of talent. They just cycle through players, and a lot of these player's contributions are forgotten.
RE: What a franchise QB can do - Nate (formerly eliminate08) - 01-20-2020
(01-20-2020, 06:13 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Aaron Rodgers had a good team around him when he won the Super Bowl. Their defense ranked 5th in yards allowed and 2nd in points allowed. His receiving core boasted the likes of Greg Jennings, Donald Driver, Jordy Nelson and James Jones. There are questions around McCarthy, but he'll have to prove people wrong starting this year. It's debatable on whether those questions are fair or not.
This would be a better point if Montana didn't win 2 Super Bowls without Rice and Taylor. The 49ers weren't a power house of talent when Montana took over. They were 2-14 the year before Joe took the reigns as starter. Then he led them to 13-3 + ring in his first full season. You wouldn't recognize many of the names on that roster, outside of Ronnie Lott and Dwight Clark (who was a solid player, but no Jerry Rice).
Fair point on the salaries, but we have no idea if Joe would've taken less, ala Brady. Maybe he would have. The Patriots themselves have had no shortage of talent, despite free agency. Some of these names have revolved in and out of that team through the years:
Troy Brown
Lawyer Milloy
Ty Law
Teddy Bruschi
Junior Seau
Darrelle Revis
Randy Moss
Wes Welker
Rob Gronkowski
Julian Edelman
Corey Dillon
Richard Seymour
Vince Wilfork
Mike Vrabel
Willie McGinnest
Donte Stallworth
Adalius Thomas
Ben Watson
Ty Warren
Rodney Harrison
Adalius Thomas
Asante Samuel
Deion Branch
Danny Woodhead
Shane Vereen
Andre Carter
LeGarrette Blount
Jamie Collins
Chandler Jones
Jabaal Sheard
James White
Stephon Gilmore
etc etc
Not to mention 2 of the best kickers in NFL history and a defense that was top 5ish for each of their SB runs. The Patriots have had an embarrassment of talent. They just cycle through players, and a lot of these player's contributions are forgotten.
One thing that I am proud of the Bengals is that they were the only team that gave the 49ers a run for their money in the SB.
The rest of the teams they played they just flat out dominated.
RE: What a franchise QB can do - Shake n Blake - 01-20-2020
(01-20-2020, 06:18 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: One thing that I am proud of the Bengals is that they were the only team that gave the 49ers a run for their money in the SB.
The rest of the teams they played they just flat out dominated.
Yeah the 49ers flat dominated the Dolphins and Broncos.
We came so close both times. Maybe because the two teams knew each other so well.
RE: What a franchise QB can do - XenoMorph - 01-20-2020
Didnt we just see a team win a NFC championship game with only 6 completed passes... It takes more than 1
RE: What a franchise QB can do - Nicomo Cosca - 01-20-2020
(01-20-2020, 02:16 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: Besides for the obvious I'm going to state some of the more not so obvious.
1 Help with the running game if a QB is deadly accurate D's can't stuff the box to stop the run.
2 You never feel your out of a game regardless of score.
3 Defense tends to be more well rested because rarely are you going to have a bunch of 3 and outs
4 Inspiring franchise QB's elevate the play of the rest of the team.
5 you tend to keep assistants longer because NFL teams tend not to give credit to coaching as much because its all Mahomes, Brady, Brees etc....
The bold seems to be the big one with Mahomes. I’ve never seen a QB come back from so many huge deficits.