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Who is Willing to ... - bengalguy71 - 02-02-2020
leave Bengledom IF MB goes with TJs premise and trades away first pick to the highest bidder?
RE: Who is Willing to ... - Kingslayer - 02-02-2020
It would have to be a fortune of 1st round and 2nd round picks. 3 from Miami is not enough IMO.
I have seen way too many mediocre to bad first round picks to settle for a 5 swap and two later 1sts. You can't pass on the potential of getting a QB like Burrow who could be the next great one.
If he turns out to be the next Luck, Manning, Brees, Rogers, those guys are priceless.
You take him, and you build around him. It's a LOT easier to add the pieces you need than to find the franchise QB
RE: Who is Willing to ... - Bengalholic - 02-02-2020
(02-02-2020, 07:49 PM)bengalguy71 Wrote: leave Bengledom IF MB goes with TJs premise and trades away first pick to the highest bidder?
He said you would have to 'consider it' but he also said...
"Do I want to draft him if I'm the Bengals? Yeah."
RE: Who is Willing to ... - Murdock2420 - 02-02-2020
Not sure why anyone would bail if they pass on Burrow and get extra picks.
The team is more then any one player can fix away. Burrow, like every 1st rounder is a 50-50 shot on success in the league. So, do you take one 50-50 guy or take 3 shots and maybe even more depending on what Miami gives you to move up this year and next?
To me if you get offered 3 first rounders for the first pick you are foolish to not take it.
RE: Who is Willing to ... - samhain - 02-02-2020
Getting Miami's 3 first rounders plus their second and maybe a little something else would get me thinking about it. That would be one hell of a draft haul. Burrow might be a transformative player for this team, and he plays the most impactful position in sports. Even so, snagging six players in the first 65 picks would be insane. You could get seven in three rounds if you finagled a 3rd for Andy. If they drafted well, you'd be looking at a stacked roster at a low cap cost pretty quickly.
The Buccaneers built a Super Bowl team with a draft like that. Dallas built a dynasty.
I want Burrow as much as anyone, but you have to consider it if it gets out of hand ridiculous. Burrow is one potentially great player. This team doesn't like to acquire talent in free agency. Do you feel better about Burrow, the guys here, and some retread scrubs in the vein of Hart and Webb mixed in as years wear on? Better than you do about 6-7 day 1 and 2 picks under control for 4-5 seasons cheap? IDK what my answer is, but I wouldn't stop watching the team if they made a move like that.
RE: Who is Willing to ... - Bengalholic - 02-02-2020
(02-02-2020, 08:03 PM)Kingslayer Wrote: It would have to be a fortune of 1st round and 2nd round picks. 3 from Miami is not enough IMO.
I have seen way too many mediocre to bad first round picks to settle for a 5 swap and two later 1sts. You can't pass on the potential of getting a QB like Burrow who could be the next great one.
If he turns out to be the next Luck, Manning, Brees, Rogers, those guys are priceless.
You take him, and you build around him. It's a LOT easier to add the pieces you need than to find the franchise QB
Completely agree, and I think it's 99.9999% for sure that Burrow will be the pick. Conjecture about anything else happening is just useless noise at this point...at least IMO.
RE: Who is Willing to ... - Bengalholic - 02-02-2020
(02-02-2020, 08:28 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Not sure why anyone would bail if they pass on Burrow and get extra picks.
The team is more then any one player can fix away. Burrow, like every 1st rounder is a 50-50 shot on success in the league. So, do you take one 50-50 guy or take 3 shots and maybe even more depending on what Miami gives you to move up this year and next?
To me if you get offered 3 first rounders for the first pick you are foolish to not take it.
You're right, they are more than one player away. However, if you have the opportunity to get the 'one guy' that could potentially be elite at the most important position on the team...why wouldn't you start there, and then build around him?
How many chances do you get to add a QB of Burrow's talent and potential as the face / leader of your franchise? If that opportunity is right in front of you for the taking, it seems far more foolish to pass it up.
RE: Who is Willing to ... - leonardfan40 - 02-02-2020
Pass on Burrow and trade back for a nice haul? No I’m not going to walk away. That’s a very reasonable move to make, no guarantee Burrow won’t bust but 4-5 other high picks should yield more than one starter.
Pass on Burrow and take Herbert at 1? I’m gone on the spot
RE: Who is Willing to ... - Murdock2420 - 02-02-2020
(02-02-2020, 08:42 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: You're right, they are more than one player away. However, if you have the opportunity to get the 'one guy' that could potentially be elite at the most important position on the team...why wouldn't you start there, and then build around him?
How many chances do you get to add a QB of Burrow's talent and potential as the face / leader of your franchise? If that opportunity is right in front of you for the taking, it seems far more foolish to pass it up.
Every year there is a guy or two or three coming out that are supposed to be "elite" and half of them wash out.
He isn't a guy that was the number one pick locked in for 2 or 3 years, he came from no where to number one. In my mind, he is more Jared Goff or Alex Smith than Andrew Luck.
With so many holes, I'd take the picks and build the team with a guy like Teddy or Tannehill under center and go from there.
Getting a maybe franchise QB at one and sitting out free agency as usual leaves us nowhere...again.
RE: Who is Willing to ... - Kingslayer - 02-02-2020
(02-02-2020, 08:28 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Not sure why anyone would bail if they pass on Burrow and get extra picks.
The team is more then any one player can fix away. Burrow, like every 1st rounder is a 50-50 shot on success in the league. So, do you take one 50-50 guy or take 3 shots and maybe even more depending on what Miami gives you to move up this year and next?
To me if you get offered 3 first rounders for the first pick you are foolish to not take it.
I respectfully disagree.
Yes, Burrow alone will not fix the team, however he has a great chance of being the most important and hardest to find part of fixing said team.
To your point about the 50-50 shot. You are correct that every first rounder is a coin flip, however not every first rounder is a possible game changing, franchise QB. For instance, Kansas City. They traded up and took a shot on Patrick Mahomes. They saw him as a franchise QB and now the Chiefs are transformed into a Super Bowl contender, (currently winning the Super Bowl 7-3) . Baltimore saw something in Lamar Jackson, and traded up to get him. They flushed the toilet with a Super Bowl winning QB and built around Lamar Jackson. MVP.
My point is, a couple first round picks in the mid teens or 20's are not going to make much of a difference.
A franchise QB will make all the difference and you have to roll the dice, take him , use free agency and the draft to build around him.
Every other position can be improved on via the draft and free agency without breaking the bank. You have ONE shot at drafting a franchise QB and if you pass on him for a QB who is made of glass and can't even walk to the podium on draft day along with a couple maybe, iffy , boring late round picks you are seriously gambling. A bet I would not make
RE: Who is Willing to ... - Murdock2420 - 02-02-2020
(02-02-2020, 08:52 PM)leonardfan40 Wrote: Pass on Burrow and trade back for a nice haul? No I’m not going to walk away. That’s a very reasonable move to make, no guarantee Burrow won’t bust but 4-5 other high picks should yield more than one starter.
Pass on Burrow and take Herbert at 1? I’m gone on the spot
Completely agree!
You get 4 tickets for the jackpot or one ticket.
Why would you not take 4 chances? Get a LB, and O-Lineman, maybe even Jordan Love in round 2?
If the question is option A - Burrow
option B - Andrew Thomas (OT Georgia), Kenneth Murray (LB Oklahoma) and then Justin Jefferson WR or Love at QB or any of the really good guys available at the pick.
How is option B not a better option for the fixing of this team?
RE: Who is Willing to ... - Murdock2420 - 02-02-2020
(02-02-2020, 09:21 PM)Kingslayer Wrote: I respectfully disagree.
Yes, Burrow alone will not fix the team, however he has a great chance of being the most important and hardest to find part of fixing said team.
To your point about the 50-50 shot. You are correct that every first rounder is a coin flip, however not every first rounder is a possible game changing, franchise QB. For instance, Kansas City. They traded up and took a shot on Patrick Mahomes. They saw him as a franchise QB and now the Chiefs are transformed into a Super Bowl contender, (currently winning the Super Bowl 7-3) . Baltimore saw something in Lamar Jackson, and traded up to get him. They flushed the toilet with a Super Bowl winning QB and built around Lamar Jackson. MVP.
My point is, a couple first round picks in the mid teens or 20's are not going to make much of a difference.
A franchise QB will make all the difference and you have to roll the dice, take him , use free agency and the draft to build around him.
Every other position can be improved on via the draft and free agency without breaking the bank. You have ONE shot at drafting a franchise QB and if you pass on him for a QB who is made of glass and can't even walk to the podium on draft day along with a couple maybe, iffy , boring late round picks you are seriously gambling. A bet I would not make
Both of your examples traded up once they had a complete team.
That is the correct way to go about it.
Trade back, build a team, then when you are a QB away, move up and get him like KC and Baltimore.
Also, look at where San Fran found their guy after building in the draft...a trade.
Look at the Titans, who swapped out of the first overall with the Rams. Rams got Goff and then have taken a step back. The Titans signed a guy to fill in (Tannehill) while using all the draft capital from the Rams to build a playoff team. Now, the Titans can move up, get a QB and they are a Super Bowl contender.
Why draft a guy and then let him sit here and lose and get hammered behind a bad O-line and get...dare I say it Bengalized. Build a team, then plug in a QB.
RE: Who is Willing to ... - Kingslayer - 02-02-2020
(02-02-2020, 09:24 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Completely agree!
You get 4 tickets for the jackpot or one ticket.
Why would you not take 4 chances? Get a LB, and O-Lineman, maybe even Jordan Love in round 2?
If the question is option A - Burrow
option B - Andrew Thomas (OT Georgia), Kenneth Murray (LB Oklahoma) and then Justin Jefferson WR or Love at QB or any of the really good guys available at the pick.
How is option B not a better option for the fixing of this team?
Lot of assuming going on there. Just saying. If you did that I would bet money that Andy Dalton will be the starting QB for another 5 years. We have seen Andy Dalton for almost 10 years now. Time to move on
RE: Who is Willing to ... - bengalguy71 - 02-02-2020
Typical forum response.
2 replies 'actually' responded to the original post question.
For those that are CERTAIN they will pick Burrow, are you certain enough to walk away if they don't?
RE: Who is Willing to ... - Bengalholic - 02-02-2020
(02-02-2020, 09:15 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Every year there is a guy or two or three coming out that are supposed to be "elite" and half of them wash out.
He isn't a guy that was the number one pick locked in for 2 or 3 years, he came from no where to number one. In my mind, he is more Jared Goff or Alex Smith than Andrew Luck.
With so many holes, I'd take the picks and build the team with a guy like Teddy or Tannehill under center and go from there.
Getting a maybe franchise QB at one and sitting out free agency as usual leaves us nowhere...again.
Given our recent drafts, and 1st rounders in particular, I'd much rather roll the dice on a potential franchise QB that most people seem to think will be special at the next level.
RE: Who is Willing to ... - Kingslayer - 02-02-2020
(02-02-2020, 09:28 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Both of your examples traded up once they had a complete team.
That is the correct way to go about it.
Trade back, build a team, then when you are a QB away, move up and get him like KC and Baltimore.
Also, look at where San Fran found their guy after building in the draft...a trade.
Look at the Titans, who swapped out of the first overall with the Rams. Rams got Goff and then have taken a step back. The Titans signed a guy to fill in (Tannehill) while using all the draft capital from the Rams to build a playoff team. Now, the Titans can move up, get a QB and they are a Super Bowl contender.
Why draft a guy and then let him sit here and lose and get hammered behind a bad O-line and get...dare I say it Bengalized. Build a team, then plug in a QB.
I see where you're coming from and you have some good points I just disagree.
Goff did go to the Super Bowl before that step back, and the Rams were very aggressive in free agency. The Chiefs and the Ravens were very aggressive in free agency. They were successful trading up for mid and late round QB's yes but in my opinion you can't count on that.
Every team needing a QB right now would trip over themselves to the podium to take Burrow. Of course you can't guarantee he is the next Joe Montana, but you have to pull the trigger and take a chance. They have cap space, they can trade Andy Dalton for a 2nd or 3rd at worst. They can tag and trade AJ Green for a possible 1st or 2nd. They have plenty of options to spend money, make good trades and build quickly around a guy like Burrow.
The problem is, of course, the Brown family...
RE: Who is Willing to ... - Murdock2420 - 02-02-2020
(02-02-2020, 09:38 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Given our recent drafts, and 1st rounders in particular, I'd much rather roll the dice on a potential franchise QB that most people seem to think will be special at the next level.
That is my biggest fear...the way this team drafts and operates. They take Burrow, and that sells tickets, no need to do anything else, besides draft Burrow. The hype train is insane, especially for a guy with only 1 year of great production, prior to that he was average at best.
I just see this as a missed opportunity to do something different and load up the roster, cause we aren't going to be active in FA, you have to know that. So if you only will build a team through the draft, get as many picks as you can to hopefully miss on fewer.
(02-02-2020, 09:42 PM)Kingslayer Wrote: I see where you're coming from and you have some good points I just disagree.
Goff did go to the Super Bowl before that step back, and the Rams were very aggressive in free agency. The Chiefs and the Ravens were very aggressive in free agency. They were successful trading up for mid and late round QB's yes but in my opinion you can't count on that.
Every team needing a QB right now would trip over themselves to the podium to take Burrow. Of course you can't guarantee he is the next Joe Montana, but you have to pull the trigger and take a chance. They have cap space, they can trade Andy Dalton for a 2nd or 3rd at worst. They can tag and trade AJ Green for a possible 1st or 2nd. They have plenty of options to spend money, make good trades and build quickly around a guy like Burrow.
The problem is, of course, the Brown family...
That is it 100%
I've said in other threads, if before the draft starts, the Bengals have signed a top tier LB who can cover and brought in another O-lineman or two that are not dumpster dives, then draft Burrow. Roll the dice, but the Mike Brown method is, build through the draft only.
So, I see a chance to turn 1 pick into 4 or 5 picks, and with how this team does business, I feel like you have to take that shot to get the most picks, unless they will get active in FA.
RE: Who is Willing to ... - Bengalholic - 02-02-2020
(02-02-2020, 09:37 PM)bengalguy71 Wrote: Typical forum response.
2 replies 'actually' responded to the original post question.
For those that are CERTAIN they will pick Burrow, are you certain enough to walk away if they don't?
Why is walking away the only option?
RE: Who is Willing to ... - Schmitbuck - 02-02-2020
Would depend on the return. The updated trade value chart says it'd take Miami's 3 first rounders & a 4th. I don't think the Bengals would accept that. For them to accept, I think it'd take 5-6 high picks and that's getting in the Herschel Walker/Ricky Williams territory. I don't know if we'd be better off, but sure would be one fun draft weekend.
RE: Who is Willing to ... - Yojimbo - 02-02-2020
The ONLY thing that will ever get me to consider not being a Bengals fan, is if they leave Cincinnati and even then it’s a long shot.