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+--- Thread: We need a defensive playmaker in the worst way. (/thread-24958.html)
We need a defensive playmaker in the worst way. - impactplaya - 09-23-2020
One thing that is painfully obvious is that this defense is really severely
Lacking a game changer on defense.
If Burrow is the face of the offense then who is it on defense.?
Successful franchises have a franchise QB and a real game changer on defense.
This defense hasnt had a real legit game changer since Vontaze.
In fact it's been years since the Bengals have drafted a defensive player
And out the gate he was already making plays.
Meanwhile over in Pittsburgh, they got guys like Devin Bush, TJ Watt boom
Making a statement on the field sooner than later in their rookie years.
Somehow in Cincy we draft guys on defense that it takes them a while to even be above average. I see many guys on defense while they are going all out, but still not impacting the game.
I dont know,if it comes down to coaching or scouting. But the lack of defensive
Playmakers is truly affecting the progress of this team.
The run d still resembles a wet paper bag.
Nobody is causing fumbles.
Interceptions. Forget about it.
RE: We need a defensive playmaker in the worst way. - Geno_Can_Dunk - 09-23-2020
Absolutely. Somehow we've been living in this myth that Geno and Carlos are still game changing defenders, and while that was true of Carlos the latter part of last year, generally speaking it hasn't been true for a few years. He hasn't been good so far this year and Geno hasn't even played.
I like guys like Bates and Hubbard, but they're not the calibre of player you're talking about.
If Penei Sewell is off the board when we pick in round 1, we might just go defensive playmaker. I have some thoughts on that but will save them for much later in the year.
RE: We need a defensive playmaker in the worst way. - 2MinutesHate - 09-23-2020
Isn't Vontaze Burfict still available?
RE: We need a defensive playmaker in the worst way. - impactplaya - 09-23-2020
(09-23-2020, 05:58 PM)Geno_Can_Dunk Wrote: Absolutely. Somehow we've been living in this myth that Geno and Carlos are still game changing defenders, and while that was true of Carlos the latter part of last year, generally speaking it hasn't been true for a few years. He hasn't been good so far this year and Geno hasn't even played.After this year Id move on from them. But I see can in the latter part of the year when this ZT led team is 3 and 9 Geno and Carlos will somehow create 2 sack games a piece in a span of 3 weeks and give the fans a glimpse of fools gold.
I like guys like Bates and Hubbard, but they're not the calibre of player you're talking about.
If Penei Sewell is off the board when we pick in round 1, we might just go defensive playmaker. I have some thoughts on that but will save them for much later in the year.
You know having big games when when its kinda meanigless.
RE: We need a defensive playmaker in the worst way. - J24 - 09-23-2020
1.) We have had a Hall of Famer game changer on defense for the past decade and his name is Geno Atkins on defense. Vontaze was overrated as a player and more importantly as a leader.
2.) I would say we have 5 guys that can take over games anytime they want. 2 are much older now but still can get it done in Geno & Dunlap.
The other three though run hot & Cold.
1.) Bates- he showed how impactful he can be against the Chargers but then he lays an egg against the Browns.
2.) Lawson- one of the better pass rushers in the league. His only question is can he stay healthy.
3.) Jackson- maybe the most frustrating player on the team? When he plays up to his billing he is all pro but he hasn't shown that enough.
3.) I think there is hope for ADG- he reminds me a lot like Devin Bush. Not sure about Wilson or Pratt though.
RE: We need a defensive playmaker in the worst way. - Murdock2420 - 09-23-2020
The thing that will haunt us for several seasons to come will be allowing Pitt to leap frog us and take Devon Bush. He looks terrible in that mustard and black, he should have been in stripes.
RE: We need a defensive playmaker in the worst way. - impactplaya - 09-23-2020
(09-23-2020, 06:12 PM)J24 Wrote: 1.) We have had a Hall of Famer game changer on defense for the past decade and his name is Geno Atkins on defense. Vontaze was overrated as a player and more importantly as a leader.Trust me Geno and Carlos run hot and cold. When was the last time these 2 actually rose to.the occasion in a game before
2.) I would say we have 5 guys that can take over games anytime they want. 2 are much older now but still can get it done in Geno & Dunlap.
The other three though run hot & Cold.
1.) Bates- he showed how impactful he can be against the Chargers but then he lays an egg against the Browns.
2.) Lawson- one of the better pass rushers in the league. His only question is can he stay healthy.
3.) Jackson- maybe the most frustrating player on the team? When he plays up to his billing he is all pro but he hasn't shown that enough.
3.) I think there is hope for ADG- he reminds me a lot like Devin Bush. Not sure about Wilson or Pratt though.
Week 8 in.the last couple years?
For the record dating back to Lewis last year the Bengals are
8 and 26.
Let that sink in.
That tells me that the defense is lacking playmakers. Among other things in that span
RE: We need a defensive playmaker in the worst way. - fredtoast - 09-23-2020
(09-23-2020, 06:21 PM)impactplaya Wrote: . When was the last time these 2 actually rose to.the occasion in a game before
Week 8 in.the last couple years?
Over the first 5 games of 2018 Geno had 6 sacks, 8 TFL, and 12 QB hits. Dunlap had 4 sacks, 8 QB hits, 5 tipped passes and 2 forced fumbles.
Just curious, but why don't games in the second half of the season count for you? Just because Carlos played so well over the second half of last year?
RE: We need a defensive playmaker in the worst way. - Nicomo Cosca - 09-23-2020
(09-23-2020, 05:58 PM)Geno_Can_Dunk Wrote: Absolutely. Somehow we've been living in this myth that Geno and Carlos are still game changing defenders, and while that was true of Carlos the latter part of last year, generally speaking it hasn't been true for a few years. He hasn't been good so far this year and Geno hasn't even played.
I like guys like Bates and Hubbard, but they're not the calibre of player you're talking about.
If Penei Sewell is off the board when we pick in round 1, we might just go defensive playmaker. I have some thoughts on that but will save them for much later in the year.
If we can’t get Sewell or Chase I really hope the BPA happens to be a pass rusher. We desperately need one.
RE: We need a defensive playmaker in the worst way. - J24 - 09-23-2020
(09-23-2020, 06:21 PM)impactplaya Wrote: Trust me Geno and Carlos run hot and cold. When was the last time these 2 actually rose to.the occasion in a game before
Week 8 in.the last couple years?
For the record dating back to Lewis last year the Bengals are
8 and 26.
Let that sink in.
That tells me that the defense is lacking playmakers. Among other things in that span
1.) A Geno was literally the best Defensive player in the NFl in the beginning of the 2018 season. He also was the only guy to show up to start the season last year.
2.) Geno is a Hall of Famer why are you picking on that guy? He is only that has shown up year after year. Yet somehow he gets so much shit on this board it's odd.
RE: We need a defensive playmaker in the worst way. - Whatever - 09-23-2020
(09-23-2020, 06:17 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: The thing that will haunt us for several seasons to come will be allowing Pitt to leap frog us and take Devon Bush. He looks terrible in that mustard and black, he should have been in stripes.
Bush had a 62.9 PFF grade last year and has a 52.8 grade so far this year. Jonah Williams has a 68.3 grade the first two games of this year. I was never that high on Bush and saw him as a 2nd round talent that was being pushed up the boards due to a weak LB class. He's been a a decent player, but not worth a Top 10 pick. Plus there's no way I'm taking a stack LB over a franchise LT.
RE: We need a defensive playmaker in the worst way. - Nicomo Cosca - 09-23-2020
(09-23-2020, 06:44 PM)Whatever Wrote: Bush had a 62.9 PFF grade last year and has a 52.8 grade so far this year. Jonah Williams has a 68.3 grade the first two games of this year. I was never that high on Bush and saw him as a 2nd round talent that was being pushed up the boards due to a weak LB class. He's been a a decent player, but not worth a Top 10 pick. Plus there's no way I'm taking a stack LB over a franchise LT.
Agreed. Watt is who I’m jealous of the Steelers about.
RE: We need a defensive playmaker in the worst way. - Wes Mantooth - 09-23-2020
(09-23-2020, 06:12 PM)J24 Wrote: 1.) We have had a Hall of Famer game changer on defense for the past decade and his name is Geno Atkins on defense. Vontaze was overrated as a player and more importantly as a leader.
2.) I would say we have 5 guys that can take over games anytime they want. 2 are much older now but still can get it done in Geno & Dunlap.
The other three though run hot & Cold.
1.) Bates- he showed how impactful he can be against the Chargers but then he lays an egg against the Browns.
2.) Lawson- one of the better pass rushers in the league. His only question is can he stay healthy.
3.) Jackson- maybe the most frustrating player on the team? When he plays up to his billing he is all pro but he hasn't shown that enough.
3.) I think there is hope for ADG- he reminds me a lot like Devin Bush. Not sure about Wilson or Pratt though.
Are you describing the Bengals defense or the '85 Bears?
They can "take over games anytime they want". Well, how come they don't want to do this more often?
Dunlap/Atkins Internal Monologue: "I can take this game over. I could do it right now if I want. Nah, I think I'm good. I'll get after it in a few weeks. But for now I'm justy gonna chill and kinda go through the motions."
RE: We need a defensive playmaker in the worst way. - fredtoast - 09-23-2020
(09-23-2020, 05:46 PM)impactplaya Wrote: Meanwhile over in Pittsburgh, they got guys like Devin Bush,
2019 stats
Bush....109 tkls....1 sack....2 QB hits....4 PD
Vigil.....111 tkls....1 sack....4 QB hits....5 PD
RE: We need a defensive playmaker in the worst way. - Wes Mantooth - 09-23-2020
(09-23-2020, 06:21 PM)impactplaya Wrote: Trust me Geno and Carlos run hot and cold.
Yup. Carlos is the definition of hot and cold.
The dude completely disappears for huge chunks of the season and pads his stats with 2 or 3 really good games. And I'm using the word "pads" lightly, as he still usually finishes under 10 sacks.
The guy was nowhere to be found the first half of last season. So far this year seems to be following suit.
RE: We need a defensive playmaker in the worst way. - Wes Mantooth - 09-23-2020
(09-23-2020, 06:55 PM)fredtoast Wrote: 2019 stats
Bush....109 tkls....1 sack....2 QB hits....4 PD
Vigil.....111 tkls....1 sack....4 QB hits....5 PD
Devin Bush... 72 solo tkls... 2 INT... 4 FR
Nick Vigil... 60 solo tkls, 1 INT... 2 FR
Not sure why you left these stats out but I thought I'd add him just to give a complete picture.
Also, one more important note:
2019
Devin Bush - Rookie
Nick Vigil - Year 4
RE: We need a defensive playmaker in the worst way. - cincyfan429 - 09-23-2020
(09-23-2020, 06:55 PM)fredtoast Wrote: 2019 stats
Bush....109 tkls....1 sack....2 QB hits....4 PD
Vigil.....111 tkls....1 sack....4 QB hits....5 PD
Vigil sucked he was in the top 5 in missed tackles
RE: We need a defensive playmaker in the worst way. - Nicomo Cosca - 09-23-2020
Is there anything to actually back up that Lawson is “one of the best pass rushers in the league?”
Because outside of his rookie season, I just haven’t seen it. He’s becoming one of our most overrated players honestly. He gets a lot of QB hits, but he doesn’t get nearly enough sacks to be one of the best.
I hate to keep picking on whoever it was that made the prediction, but 20 sacks for Carl Lawson was pretty ridiculous.
RE: We need a defensive playmaker in the worst way. - GreenCornBengal - 09-23-2020
(09-23-2020, 07:39 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Is there anything to actually back up that Lawson is “one of the best pass rushers in the league?”
Because outside of his rookie season, I just haven’t seen it. He’s becoming one of our most overrated players honestly. He gets a lot of QB hits, but he doesn’t get nearly enough sacks to be one of the best.
I hate to keep picking on whoever it was that made the prediction, but 20 sacks for Carl Lawson was pretty ridiculous.
I’ve said this about Carl Lawson many times. The potential is there, but the production just doesn’t come to fruition.
I agree with the OP. We don’t have anyone who stands out as the ‘stud’ on defense. Bates looked like he may be that guy in week1, but then washed that all away in week2.
I thought Vonn Bell might fit in that role but after 2 weeks I haven’t been super impressed. It’s still early and the defense should get stronger as they play more together.
If Hubbard takes another step in the right direction he could be our big playmaker, but he seems more like Carlos in that they are steady producers with a few splash plays here and there. Not taking over games, but may take over a series or close out a game.
We have a lot of potential on that side of the ball, they just need to put it together. Easier said than done.
RE: We need a defensive playmaker in the worst way. - impactplaya - 09-23-2020
All.in all.this defense lacks finishers. Look QB hits are nice cause over the course of a game. You can mentally get to a QB.
But I need to see this defense start putting QBs on the ground as in a sack.
Last week the Steelers sacked Broncos QBs 7 times.
At the Bengals sack rate they might reach that in 15 games.
This defense needs to really get a identity that equates to physical opportunistic football