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+--- Thread: Joe is not Andy (/thread-25028.html)
Joe is not Andy - bfine32 - 09-28-2020
His best attribute is not "getting rid of the ball"
He likes to stand in the pocket and watch the play develop and I dig it
According to PFF he was responsible for 5 of the 8 sacks yesterday by holding the ball too long.
I know the en vogue thing to do is shake our fist at the oline and they rightly deserve some criticism, but Joe's going to take some sacks as he learns the speed of the NFL.
My hope is we let the kid grow and not try to alter his game to a "one read" type deal. He's going to take his lumps, but he's a big boy and knows exactly what he's doing.
RE: Joe is not Andy - JSR18 - 09-28-2020
If we are to be able to throw the ball downfield, JoeB is going to have to have time to throw.He was lucky at times yesterday to get 2 seconds to throw. Seems when I was playing (a VERY long time ago) I was always hearing some coach yelling at linemen to "stay on your block". With the correct protection, a QB should have a good 3 sometimes 4 seconds to throw the ball. At 4 seconds a QBs internal clock should be screaming "throw it or get out of there"...
RE: Joe is not Andy - Rubekahn29 - 09-28-2020
This is a great point. I think we all knlw the line sucks, evidence not just by sacks, but terrible run game. However, there are time Burrow plays hero ball. I think hes learning that he can't make these DE/LBs miss easily like he could in college. Hopefully he will get a better feel of when he can play hero ball and just get to a check down.
RE: Joe is not Andy - GreenCornBengal - 09-28-2020
He rarely throws dangerous passes. It’s impressive to see how he makes great decisions 95% of the time and a sack is typically better than an INT which is why we are in these games.
I love the desire to dodge contact and find an open guy in schoolyard fashion. It’s those types of plays that make Wilson, Mahommes and Big Ben the great QBs they are.
RE: Joe is not Andy - Brownshoe - 09-28-2020
Burrow has impressed me a TON these first few games. There are a few things that I didn't like, but you can easily chalk those up to rookie mistakes. I think if we give him protection and keep decent weapons around him he'll be an elite QB for a long time. I just don't want him to end up like Archie Manning where his OL made him look worse than what he actually is.
RE: Joe is not Andy - Pat5775 - 09-28-2020
If Andy was still QB, we’d have probably scored a grand total of 17-20 points after 3 games. The entire offense is Joe Burrow.
RE: Joe is not Andy - Truck_1_0_1_ - 09-28-2020
(09-28-2020, 02:23 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Burrow has impressed me a TON these first few games. There are a few things that I didn't like, but you can easily chalk those up to rookie mistakes. I think if we give him protection and keep decent weapons around him he'll be an elite QB for a long time. I just don't want him to end up like Archie Manning where his OL made him look worse than what he actually is.
You don't have a 7 TD, 20 INT season because of a bad oline.
Archie Manning sucked. Period.
RE: Joe is not Andy - Au165 - 09-28-2020
(09-28-2020, 01:49 PM)bfine32 Wrote: His best attribute is not "getting rid of the ball"
He likes to stand in the pocket and watch the play develop and I dig it
According to PFF he was responsible for 5 of the 8 sacks yesterday by holding the ball too long.
I know the en vogue thing to do is shake our fist at the oline and they rightly deserve some criticism, but Joe's going to take some sacks as he learns the speed of the NFL.
My hope is we let the kid grow and not try to alter his game to a "one read" type deal. He's going to take his lumps, but he's a big boy and knows exactly what he's doing.
Got to be careful with how they credit those at times. They will credit a QB with holding the ball too long while running for your life inside the pocket. That said, I had counted three yesterday where he wanted to slide a little too much and he should have left the pocket rather then trying to sit in and deliver. He has a "it's not over until it's over" mentality that is similar to DeShan Watson who also takes a lot of sacks because of his own stubbornness at times. I'm not worried about the "Carr" narrative people keep floating because that doesn't appear to be his personality. I think by the end of the year when the competition is a little softer and he is more comfortable he could look REALLY special.
One interesting thing, people complained we didn't "get creative" and get him on the move with "misdirections and bootlegs" previous games but yesterday we saw why that isn't as great as it sounds. It cut the field in half and resulted in a lot of incompletions or busted plays as no one was open. I really like him out of 5 wide because he is so good at diagnosing the coverage off it. the sack where the DE came inside on sample was a good check by him to pull him in to block on a six-man look, the issue was one blitzer fell out and Jonah went inside to help Jordan rather than outside (he should have gone out when the blitzer dropped out).
RE: Joe is not Andy - Okeana - 09-28-2020
(09-28-2020, 01:49 PM)bfine32 Wrote: His best attribute is not "getting rid of the ball"
He likes to stand in the pocket and watch the play develop and I dig it
According to PFF he was responsible for 5 of the 8 sacks yesterday by holding the ball too long.
I know the en vogue thing to do is shake our fist at the oline and they rightly deserve some criticism, but Joe's going to take some sacks as he learns the speed of the NFL.
My hope is we let the kid grow and not try to alter his game to a "one read" type deal. He's going to take his lumps, but he's a big boy and knows exactly what he's doing.
https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing#average-time-to-throw
With everything stacked against Joe, he is everything I hoped for and more. There is a reason why he looks totally different in 2 min drill than any other time of the game and it's entirely to do with him controlling the plays vs Zac Taylor.
I have zero faith in the play callers and coaches for the team.
RE: Joe is not Andy - Hammerstripes - 09-28-2020
(09-28-2020, 01:49 PM)bfine32 Wrote: His best attribute is not "getting rid of the ball"
He likes to stand in the pocket and watch the play develop and I dig it
According to PFF he was responsible for 5 of the 8 sacks yesterday by holding the ball too long.
I know the en vogue thing to do is shake our fist at the oline and they rightly deserve some criticism, but Joe's going to take some sacks as he learns the speed of the NFL.
My hope is we let the kid grow and not try to alter his game to a "one read" type deal. He's going to take his lumps, but he's a big boy and knows exactly what he's doing.
Me too, he's fearless. I just pray to God that he doesn't hurt himself.
He's in his 3rd game without a preseason and he already looks like a veteran. He's the real deal and we were damn lucky to get him.
RE: Joe is not Andy - jj22 - 09-28-2020
(09-28-2020, 02:46 PM)Au165 Wrote: Got to be careful with how they credit those at times. They will credit a QB with holding the ball too long while running for your life inside the pocket. That said, I had counted three yesterday where he wanted to slide a little too much and he should have left the pocket rather then trying to sit in and deliver. He has a "it's not over until it's over" mentality that is similar to DeShan Watson who also takes a lot of sacks because of his own stubbornness at times. I'm not worried about the "Carr" narrative people keep floating because that doesn't appear to be his personality. I think by the end of the year when the competition is a little softer and he is more comfortable he could look REALLY special.
One interesting thing, people complained we didn't "get creative" and get him on the move with "misdirections and bootlegs" previous games but yesterday we saw why that isn't as great as it sounds. It cut the field in half and resulted in a lot of incompletions or busted plays as no one was open. I really like him out of 5 wide because he is so good at diagnosing the coverage off it. the sack where the DE came inside on sample was a good check by him to pull him in to block on a six-man look, the issue was one blitzer fell out and Jonah went inside to help Jordan rather than outside (he should have gone out when the blitzer dropped out).
If the Carr narrative doesn't sell you. The Luck one should. Burrow can't keep taking these hits. It's just not going to end well. Not with our Bengals luck. The new coaches may not know they are playing with fire, but we as a fanbase should see what is coming from a mile away.
RE: Joe is not Andy - ezekiel23 - 09-28-2020
(09-28-2020, 01:49 PM)bfine32 Wrote: His best attribute is not "getting rid of the ball"
He likes to stand in the pocket and watch the play develop and I dig it
According to PFF he was responsible for 5 of the 8 sacks yesterday by holding the ball too long.
I know the en vogue thing to do is shake our fist at the oline and they rightly deserve some criticism, but Joe's going to take some sacks as he learns the speed of the NFL.
My hope is we let the kid grow and not try to alter his game to a "one read" type deal. He's going to take his lumps, but he's a big boy and knows exactly what he's doing.
I noticed the same thing with Burrow holding the ball and yes he had time to at least throw it away or anything to avoid the sack. That’s exactly why it always frustrated me so much with Andy Dalton.But hey, he’s a rookie,and overall,under the circumstances,I think he’s done an outstanding job,other than that. I’ll
RE: Joe is not Andy - Bengalfan4life27c - 09-28-2020
I still think the line can be mediocre XSF played well in charger game. we can mask Hart. The 3 Dlines we played are all top 8 units. Jags do not have a top 8 unit neither do the Ravens
RE: Joe is not Andy - Au165 - 09-28-2020
(09-28-2020, 02:50 PM)jj22 Wrote: If the Carr narrative doesn't sell you. The Luck one should. Burrow can't keep taking these hits. It's just not going to end well. Not with our Bengals luck. The new coaches may not know they are playing with fire, but we as a fanbase should see what is coming from a mile away.
As I told you in another thread, Cunningham took those hits and played a long time. Watson is taking those hits and seems to be playing through it. Also as I said there, I am not saying the O line is in a good place but acting like one guy who got hit a lot is the future for everyone else is a huge leap.
The Luck thing is interesting, he actually wasn't sacked all that much relative to his passing attempts. The numbers don't actually support the narrative people tried to paint around him. His highest sack % year was his rookie year at 6.1% which isn't bad and most years it was close to 4% which is really good. For comparison, Russell Wilson has a career sack percentage of 8.4%, he gets hit a ton and no one seems to talk about it.
RE: Joe is not Andy - jj22 - 09-28-2020
(09-28-2020, 02:57 PM)Au165 Wrote: As I told you in another thread, Cunningham took those hits and played a long time. Watson is taking those hits and seems to be playing through it. Also as I said there, I am not saying the O line is in a good place but acting like one guy who gets hit a lot is the future for everyone else is a huge leap.
We are talking about the Bengals tho. This isn't going to end well. Hell we are lucky he got up yesterday. One of these hits he won't.
Hoping for the best has never worked for us as a fanbase. Disaster is far more likely, and what we all need to be bracing for the inevitable to manage the meltdown that will come. That's why I said the new Coaches may not know they are tempting fate, but we all should know how this will end.
RE: Joe is not Andy - reuben.ahmed - 09-28-2020
When he learns our line can't protect him that well and he knows how to throw the ball away at player's feet, he will be well ahead of the curve. We may have actually won a game or two if he did that one thing instead of taking some sacks. At the same time maybe he wouldn't have made some of the plays.
RE: Joe is not Andy - bengaloo - 09-28-2020
If Andy were still the QB his sack numbers would be worse, and his INT numbers would be worse. We've been thru this with him and it wasnt pretty. He had zero poise under pressure, like none. Maybe Joe is trying to do too much, but the dude wants to win and is already aware that he has to carry the team through the OL struggles.
RE: Joe is not Andy - PhilHos - 09-28-2020
(09-28-2020, 02:48 PM)Okeana Wrote: There is a reason why he looks totally different in 2 min drill than any other time of the game and it's entirely to do with him controlling the plays vs Zac Taylor.
People keep making this claim. What are you basing it on?
I bet you the reason the 2 min drill works has more to do with Zac not trying to be balanced on offense and calling more pass plays and barely running the ball on the possibility that a rookie with no preseason is calling the offense.
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Here's something to think about: Burrow in 3 games so far has only thrown 1 INT and it was that stupid shovel pass one; he's got a 5-1 TD to INT ratio
RE: Joe is not Andy - Gdale_Bengal - 09-28-2020
He stands in the pocket and lets the play develop while only having 2 seconds to throw.
That doesn’t even make sense.
Most of the time when burrow completes his drop there are already players chugging beers in the backfield.
He needs time to throw, and he has no time.
RE: Joe is not Andy - PhilHos - 09-28-2020
(09-28-2020, 03:06 PM)bengaloo Wrote: If Andy were still the QB his sack numbers would be worse
I disagree. Andy would have thrown the ball away more. Burrow, to his credit, tries to keep plays alive.
(09-28-2020, 03:06 PM)bengaloo Wrote: If Andy were still the QB ... his INT numbers would be worse.
I agree.