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+--- Thread: (Not) Saved by the Bell (/thread-25704.html)
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(Not) Saved by the Bell - GreenCornBengal - 11-16-2020
Vonn Bell just looks a second too late on so many plays. He’s been out of position and exploited on numerous occasions this season as well. I thought he would come in and be an enforcer, make some big hits or cause a fumble. Haven’t seen it.
I wish we would’ve stick with Shawn Williams and used that money elsewhere.
RE: (Not) Saved by the Bell - SHRacerX - 11-16-2020
Bell was excellent in the Tennessee game. It seems like the run defense has improved, and he has a lot to do with that. He isn't a game changer, like Bates, but they have different roles. I view him as a slightly above average SS.
RE: (Not) Saved by the Bell - GreenCornBengal - 11-16-2020
(11-16-2020, 10:36 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Bell was excellent in the Tennessee game. It seems like the run defense has improved, and he has a lot to do with that. He isn't a game changer, like Bates, but they have different roles. I view him as a slightly above average SS.
Seems like a non factor in most games from what I’ve seen. I view him as subpar and not worth the money we paid for him. There are other glaring holes that are performing worse from a holistic standpoint but he hasn’t been worth the money IMO.
RE: (Not) Saved by the Bell - Truck_1_0_1_ - 11-16-2020
(11-16-2020, 10:41 AM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: Seems like a non factor in most games from what I’ve seen. I view him as subpar and not worth the money we paid for him. There are other glaring holes that are performing worse from a holistic standpoint but he hasn’t been worth the money IMO.
Not subpar at all; he's great V the run and getting guys in position on the field: his intangibles are vast.
The problem is use; he should NOT be in coverage on a ******* WR, as that is a mismatch of the worst-kind.
On blitzes and in the run game, he has been more than fine.
RE: (Not) Saved by the Bell - Gdale_Bengal - 11-16-2020
He gets beat in coverage, he isnt a good safety when used that way.
He makes his impact in the run game, and he had at least one turnover called back on penalty. He is a good safety and has made an impact in the run game, but stopping the run is a team effort moreso than one or 2 guys.
I think this defense really needed Wayne’s. That and not having Tony Brown start at corner
RE: (Not) Saved by the Bell - Truck_1_0_1_ - 11-16-2020
(11-16-2020, 11:17 AM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: He gets beat in coverage, he isnt a good safety when used that way.
He makes his impact in the run game, and he had at least one turnover called back on penalty. He is a good safety and has made an impact in the run game, but stopping the run is a team effort moreso than one or 2 guys.
I think this defense really needed Wayne’s. That and not having Tony Brown start at corner
We all knew at the beginning of the year that he's only on team for STs and that if we ever had to turn to him as a CB, it would be a non-stellar scenario.
He actually had some good plays yesterday, but he had way more negative plays
RE: (Not) Saved by the Bell - wildcatnku24 - 11-16-2020
(11-16-2020, 11:17 AM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: He gets beat in coverage, he isnt a good safety when used that way.
He makes his impact in the run game, and he had at least one turnover called back on penalty. He is a good safety and has made an impact in the run game, but stopping the run is a team effort moreso than one or 2 guys.
I think this defense really needed Wayne’s. That and not having Tony Brown start at corner
This.
I think folks aren't considering the fact that Bell wasn't signed to do the things he's having to do due to God hating Bengals Football (injuries). Does everyone remember being excited as heck for this defense based on the obvious plan due to FA acquisitions etc. ? That should've been a fun defense to watch, and considering our offense has been hanging points nearly every game, I can use that logic to say we'd have been quite competitive this year.
RE: (Not) Saved by the Bell - GreenCornBengal - 11-16-2020
(11-16-2020, 11:17 AM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: He gets beat in coverage, he isnt a good safety when used that way.
He makes his impact in the run game, and he had at least one turnover called back on penalty. He is a good safety and has made an impact in the run game, but stopping the run is a team effort moreso than one or 2 guys.
I think this defense really needed Wayne’s. That and not having Tony Brown start at corner
I guess my question then is why pay the big bucks for a guy you’re gonna misuse? I thought we would see more 3 safety looks this year.
RE: (Not) Saved by the Bell - Gdale_Bengal - 11-16-2020
(11-16-2020, 11:29 AM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: I guess my question then is why pay the big bucks for a guy you’re gonna misuse? I thought we would see more 3 safety looks this year.
Audibles from run to pass. Sometimes you just have to put your best players on the field and see if they make plays. Sometimes it’s tge wrong defense. It’s a number of things
RE: (Not) Saved by the Bell - TJHoushmandzadeh's Shiny Shoes - 11-20-2020
(11-16-2020, 11:29 AM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: I guess my question then is why pay the big bucks for a guy you’re gonna misuse? I thought we would see more 3 safety looks this year.
It's not really big bucks is it? His cap number this year is Cethan Carter plus Kevin Huber's for someone who's taken every(?) D snap and still has more ST snaps than Alex Erickson.
RE: (Not) Saved by the Bell - bengalfan74 - 11-20-2020
I'm glad we have him.
RE: (Not) Saved by the Bell - bfine32 - 11-20-2020
I've definitely have not seen an upgrade over Shawn Williams. Over the last 2 years SW has averaged 109 tackles, 1 sack, and 3 INTs. We miss his production.
RE: (Not) Saved by the Bell - ochocincos - 11-20-2020
Even if Shawn Williams was/is slightly worse, I don't think the difference is really that big.
I honestly haven't been that impressed with Bell, but I was also probably expecting something different/more.
Vonn Bell cost the Bengals $5 mill in cap space this year, $5.5 mill next year, and $7.5 mill the year after.
I'd like to think that money would have had more improvement if it went toward a LB or OL.
RE: (Not) Saved by the Bell - TheLeonardLeap - 11-20-2020
(11-20-2020, 11:33 AM)TJHoushmandzadeh Wrote: It's not really big bucks is it? His cap number this year is Cethan Carter plus Kevin Huber's for someone who's taken every(?) D snap and still has more ST snaps than Alex Erickson.
$6m/yr isn't big bucks (for the NFL) but it's not chump change either.
I also think you almost have to factor in the fact that you have Shawn Williams hitting the cap for almost $5m this year on the bench because of Bell and his $6m.
RE: (Not) Saved by the Bell - Wes Mantooth - 11-20-2020
I really like Vonn Bell. The thing you have to understand with him is never was going to be a great coverage safety. That's not what he is. He's a playmaker, who's good in the run game.
I'm not saying he's nearly as good as him, but I think he's comparable to a player like Jamal Adams. Jamal Adams is terrible in coverage. I saw somewhere recently where he ranked something like 78th out of 82 eligible DB's in coverage. But Jamal Adams is an absolute beats everywhere else.
They move him all around. He's a run stopper, he blitzes, the guy just makes big plays. I think Vonn Bell can be kind of a Jamal Adams-lite if used properly.
RE: (Not) Saved by the Bell - JSR18 - 11-20-2020
(11-16-2020, 11:29 AM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: I guess my question then is why pay the big bucks for a guy you’re gonna misuse? I thought we would see more 3 safety looks this year.
That falls squarely on the head of Sweet Lou. Hopefully, he's gone at season's end...
RE: (Not) Saved by the Bell - Nate (formerly eliminate08) - 11-21-2020
(11-16-2020, 10:36 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Bell was excellent in the Tennessee game. It seems like the run defense has improved, and he has a lot to do with that. He isn't a game changer, like Bates, but they have different roles. I view him as a slightly above average SS.
Agreed. I think he is just used wrong by Lou.
Bell is a good player and a great run stopper and blitzer. Use him as such.
RE: (Not) Saved by the Bell - rfaulk34 - 11-21-2020
(11-16-2020, 11:14 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Not subpar at all; he's great V the run and getting guys in position on the field: his intangibles are vast.
The problem is use; he should NOT be in coverage on a ******* WR, as that is a mismatch of the worst-kind.
On blitzes and in the run game, he has been more than fine.
True. He's 44th overall on PFF but 15th against the run and 7th tackling.
Pass rush 34th and coverage 53rd.
RE: (Not) Saved by the Bell - Forever Spinning Vinyl - 11-21-2020
He's an upgrade over Shawn Williams, who is often two full steps behind on plays to the man he is covering.
When I played QB, 90% of my passes were dictated by what the safety did in coverage. You read the safeties more than any other position as a QB, and Williams is an easy mark. He reads plays way too late and is often trailing his assignment by a couple of yards (ie.. Wide Open).
Almost all of the off-season defenders added in FA were all labeled as good tacklers. Bell wasn't brought here to cover and he's still better at that than Shawn Williams.
RE: (Not) Saved by the Bell - Nate (formerly eliminate08) - 11-21-2020
(11-21-2020, 05:20 PM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: He's an upgrade over Shawn Williams, who is often two full steps behind on plays to the man he is covering.
When I played QB, 90% of my passes were dictated by what the safety did in coverage. You read the safeties more than any other position as a QB, and Williams is an easy mark. He reads plays way too late and is often trailing his assignment by a couple of yards (ie.. Wide Open).
Almost all of the off-season defenders added in FA were all labeled as good tacklers. Bell wasn't brought here to cover and he's still better at that than Shawn Williams.
Cannot believe Shawn STILL reads plays too late being in the league as long as he has.
Bates knows how to read plays already better than about anybody, should of had a pick 6 against the Steelers.