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+--- Thread: End of the "Dalton Scale"? (/thread-266.html)
End of the "Dalton Scale"? - GreenCornBengal - 05-20-2015
Here is a link to the "Around the NFL" podcast, which a good majority talks about the "Dalton Scale". Quick Disclaimer, I hate these dudes, especially Gregg Rosenthal. :vomit:
Anywho, here is the link.
http://www.nfl.com/podcasts?id=26d688927df08855d267faf0bc1c3593
If you skip to 27mins they start to talk about Dalton
A quick summary is that Dalton has become so horrible lately that they are ditching the "Dalton Line" all together. As I'm sure you know, these guys decided that a team with a QB worse than Dalton needs a new QB, and a team with a better QB than Dalton is ok at QB (and thus the term Dalton Line was created).
Dalton was so bad last year, that they now see him as the 25th or even 27th QB in the league
Thus, he cannot be the QB or "scale" to judge other QBs off of.
The segment reminded me of jungle noise and gave me a few laughs, although if you dislike Dalton hate, this probably isn't for you.
RE: End of the "Dalton Scale"? - XenoMorph - 05-20-2015
(05-20-2015, 04:43 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: Here is a link to the "Around the NFL" podcast, which a good majority talks about the "Dalton Scale". Quick Disclaimer, I hate these dudes, especially Gregg Rosenthal. :vomit:
Anywho, here is the link.
http://www.nfl.com/podcasts?id=26d688927df08855d267faf0bc1c3593
If you skip to 27mins they start to talk about Dalton
A quick summary is that Dalton has become so horrible lately that they are ditching the "Dalton Line" all together. As I'm sure you know, these guys decided that a team with a QB worse than Dalton needs a new QB, and a team with a better QB than Dalton is ok at QB (and thus the term Dalton Line was created).
Dalton was so bad last year, that they now see him as the 25th or even 27th QB in the league
Thus, he cannot be the QB or "scale" to judge other QBs off of.
The segment reminded me of jungle noise and gave me a few laughs, although if you dislike Dalton hate, this probably isn't for you.
weird then why did the less successful tannenhill just get a decent contract?
RE: End of the "Dalton Scale"? - Bengalstripes9 - 05-20-2015
(05-20-2015, 06:04 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: weird then why did the less successful tannenhill just get a decent contract?
I'm still on the fence about Dalton, but he's definitely better than Tannenhill..
I don't understand why so many people are high on Tannenhill, and was shocked he got as much money as he did.
Last year he choked at the end of every close game. It pissed me off because I'd pick the Dolphins in my football pool, they'd be up the whole game, or at least be in the game at the end--then Tannenhill loses the game at the end by either not moving the ball or turning it over. Dalton at least has won us some games at the end (the drive against Pitt last year comes to mind that clinched a playoff birth).
RE: End of the "Dalton Scale"? - Bilbo Saggins - 05-20-2015
He loses a playoff game when his #1 receiver is Rex Burkhead, goes to the pro bowl with no concern other than not getting injured, and now he's suddenly a bottom of the barrel qb? I'm not sure that I understand.
RE: End of the "Dalton Scale"? - bfine32 - 05-20-2015
Tannehill achieved a passer rating of over 92 last year with no receivers and a terrible oline. Why do folks always find it necessary to try to make other QBs look bad.
As for blowing games at the end. In the 4th Quarter in games within 7 points Tannehill completed over 64% of his passes with 4 TDs and 1 INT. He had a QBR of 99.3 in that situation.
Tannehill is a talented young QB.
RE: End of the "Dalton Scale"? - XenoMorph - 05-20-2015
(05-20-2015, 07:09 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Tannehill achieved a passer rating of over 92 last year with no receivers and a terrible oline. Why do folks always find it necessary to try to make other QBs look bad.
As for blowing games at the end. In the 4th Quarter in games within 7 points Tannehill completed over 64% of his passes with 4 TDs and 1 INT. He had a QBR of 99.3 in that situation.
Tannehill is a talented young QB.
And has won less games and thrown less tds than Dalton (first 3 years )ie less successful. Not saying tannenhill is bad are you saying he's better than Dalton?
RE: End of the "Dalton Scale"? - leonardfan40 - 05-20-2015
(05-20-2015, 07:09 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Tannehill achieved a passer rating of over 92 last year with no receivers and a terrible oline. Why do folks always find it necessary to try to make other QBs look bad.
As for blowing games at the end. In the 4th Quarter in games within 7 points Tannehill completed over 64% of his passes with 4 TDs and 1 INT. He had a QBR of 99.3 in that situation.
Tannehill is a talented young QB.
This^
Tannehill is a very good QB. He has not had the success making the playoffs that Dalton has had, but he also hasn't had the supporting cast that Dalton has had. This year should be very telling for Tannehill. If I were the Dolphins I would have waited another year before giving him that deal. I said the same thing with Dalton though and certainly understand the choice to pay both QB's now. They are actually in a very similar situation with him as we were with Dalton and they made the same choice. Pay him decent money know and try to build a great team around him to win it all, banking on him being able to take them to the next level. If you wait until he wins you several playoff games or even a SB then try to pay him you are going to either have to let him walk or cut players left and right to make the salary cap. Plus with guys like Luck and Wilson closing in on new mega deals getting him done now makes even more sense than waiting for those two to cash in and having Tannehill cost even more. Both the Dolphins and Bengals made the choice to pay these mid level QB's now so they can build a long term contender. I don't see how anyone can hate the move, may not be what you would have done, but they have faith in their guys and made the move. We won't know how good/bad these deals are for a few more seasons.
RE: End of the "Dalton Scale"? - bfine32 - 05-20-2015
(05-20-2015, 07:41 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: And has won less games and thrown less tds than Dalton (first 3 years )ie less successful. Not saying tannenhill is bad are you saying he's better than Dalton?
IMO Tannehill is more talented and nothing he did caused Andy to have an absolutely terrible year. I assumed you were a huge fan of a young Mark Sanchez.
RE: End of the "Dalton Scale"? - djs7685 - 05-20-2015
(05-20-2015, 06:54 PM)Bilbo Saggins Wrote: He loses a playoff game when his #1 receiver is Rex Burkhead, goes to the pro bowl with no concern other than not getting injured, and now he's suddenly a bottom of the barrel qb? I'm not sure that I understand.
Trollololol.
Wait, you are trolling right?
How in the blue hell would you consider a guy that only played in 7 passing snaps to be the #1 receiver? For the record, Sanu, Tate, and Hamilton were his actual receivers in the playoff game. Hardly anything special there, but let's not just flat out lie and say that Burkhead was the #1.
(05-20-2015, 07:41 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: And has won less games and thrown less tds than Dalton (first 3 years )ie less successful. Not saying tannenhill is bad are you saying he's better than Dalton?
Football is a team game, Andy Dalton has won 0 games and Ryan Tannehill has won 0 games. Looks like they're tied. Or were you checking them out when they were bowling one night?
TDs are the only measure of success for a QB? That's interesting. I have a feeling you'd be cherry picking a different stat if it led the sheep to where you wanted it to
RE: End of the "Dalton Scale"? - bfine32 - 05-20-2015
(05-20-2015, 08:13 PM)djs7685 Wrote: TDs are the only measure of success for a QB? That's interesting. I have a feeling you'd be cherry picking a different stat if it led the sheep to where you wanted it to
I did notice that TDs were a whole lot less important for a QB in 2014 than they were in 2013.
RE: End of the "Dalton Scale"? - t3r3e3 - 05-20-2015
The reason those guys bag on Dalton is multifaceted. For one, Andy has a limited skillset when compared to a majority of starting QB's in the NFL. Firstly, there's size, accuracy, and arm strength. He's not very big, and his accuracy is so so. Andy's arm is on the weak side with respect to NFL starters, and he can't drive the ball to hit deep crosses, outs, seam routes, and 9 routes. Secondly, his decision making is very poor at times, and he has the tendency to go into total meltdown mode. Thirdly, his Playoff and late season performances speak for themselves. Fourthly, he is being limited in an offense that is designed to maximize running opportunities and limit Andy's influence. Combine all that and you get Ryan Fitzpatrick 2.0, or a less athletic Alex Smith. Not exactly the blueprint QB to lead a team to the promise land.
As for Tannehill, bfine was correct. Tannehill's biggest problem is he's highly inaccurate on the deep throws. The Dolphins also have a terrible o line, in no small part to the Incognito cluster!uck and subsequent house cleaning. That being said, Tannehill has what Andy does not, namely, above average measurable (upside) to go with similar or better recent production. Andy's stature in the NFL QB echelon is inflated on here, in large part due to we're Bengals fans. That being said, folks might take heed of the fact that all the talking heads, writers, and insiders have Dalton ranked lower than the consensus on here.
RE: End of the "Dalton Scale"? - wolfkaosaun - 05-20-2015
(05-20-2015, 07:09 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Tannehill achieved a passer rating of over 92 last year with no receivers and a terrible oline. Why do folks always find it necessary to try to make other QBs look bad.
As for blowing games at the end. In the 4th Quarter in games within 7 points Tannehill completed over 64% of his passes with 4 TDs and 1 INT. He had a QBR of 99.3 in that situation.
Tannehill is a talented young QB.
I'm not the biggest fan of Tannehill, but he had a very good season last year and showed a ton of improvement. They did what they could to help out him last year.
They drafted Landry and gave him Mike Wallace. They drafted young offensive lineman and have one of the best centers in the game. While he was the 3rd most sacked QB in the league, he was only sacked 4 more times than Russell Wilson.
They added Stills and DeVante Parker, they also drafted offensive lineman. So they are giving Tannehill all he needs to succeed.
Also there were only 5 games that the Dolphins game ended within 7 points. He threw a costly interception in a big 4th quarter blowout to the Broncos. The defense lost against the Packers, Tannehill did what he could in that 4th quarter, but overall that game he wasn't that great. Jets game they came back. Lions game they couldn't really move the ball very well against that defense. Minnesota game he came up very big in that game, deserves a ton of credit for that 4th quarter.
RE: End of the "Dalton Scale"? - CKwi88 - 05-20-2015
I really, really, really, hate the idea of the Dalton Scale.
But Dalton keeps it relevant.
It's an unfortunately valid point.
RE: End of the "Dalton Scale"? - wolfkaosaun - 05-20-2015
Since we're talking about games decided by 7 points or less and Tannehill, I decided to look into Dalton's numbers this past year.
There were only 4 games, but Dalton was clutch.
Dalton went 29 of 40 for 432 yards. Threw for 2 touchdown passes, ran for 1 touchdown, and had 1 interception. He had a QB rating of 113.8. Also went 4-0.
Three of those games were 4th quarter comebacks. Two games he led game-winning drives.
And this is including overtime against the Panthers.
RE: End of the "Dalton Scale"? - lostpoet2 - 05-20-2015
Hopefully the pending irrelevance of The Dalton Scale is enough to light a fire under Andy's butt and will motivate him to work his way back to mediocrity in 2015. With an improved running game and healthy receiving options, that's really all the Bengals need.
RE: End of the "Dalton Scale"? - Nate (formerly eliminate08) - 05-20-2015
(05-20-2015, 04:43 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: Here is a link to the "Around the NFL" podcast, which a good majority talks about the "Dalton Scale". Quick Disclaimer, I hate these dudes, especially Gregg Rosenthal. :vomit:
Anywho, here is the link.
http://www.nfl.com/podcasts?id=26d688927df08855d267faf0bc1c3593
If you skip to 27mins they start to talk about Dalton
A quick summary is that Dalton has become so horrible lately that they are ditching the "Dalton Line" all together. As I'm sure you know, these guys decided that a team with a QB worse than Dalton needs a new QB, and a team with a better QB than Dalton is ok at QB (and thus the term Dalton Line was created).
Dalton was so bad last year, that they now see him as the 25th or even 27th QB in the league
Thus, he cannot be the QB or "scale" to judge other QBs off of.
The segment reminded me of jungle noise and gave me a few laughs, although if you dislike Dalton hate, this probably isn't for you.
Dude, i am the first to say AD had a terrible season but i bet he surprises these guys
big time this year. With Green, Eifert, MLJ all healthy and a badazz running game and
a solid O-line these guys will probably eat major crow.
This is what i am hoping anyways...
RE: End of the "Dalton Scale"? - CornerBlitz - 05-20-2015
This topic of discussion is the gift that keeps on giving. C'mon guys everyone has their opinion on this QB by now and it won't change in mid may.
It didn't even change for many of you during last season so it is a moot point to discuss this.
RE: End of the "Dalton Scale"? - Stormborn - 05-20-2015
From a pure talent perspective, Tannehill >> Dalton. It's not too hard to understand when one was drafted 28 spots ahead of the other.
You put Tannehill on this team, no chemistry issues, why would it be shocking that he maybe would do better than what Andy's done?
RE: End of the "Dalton Scale"? - Johnny Cupcakes - 05-20-2015
(05-20-2015, 09:17 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: Since we're talking about games decided by 7 points or less and Tannehill, I decided to look into Dalton's numbers this past year.
There were only 4 games, but Dalton was clutch.
Dalton went 29 of 40 for 432 yards. Threw for 2 touchdown passes, ran for 1 touchdown, and had 1 interception. He had a QB rating of 113.8. Also went 4-0.
Three of those games were 4th quarter comebacks. Two games he led game-winning drives.
And this is including overtime against the Panthers.
I'm not following this.
If there were 4 of these games, and one was against Carolina, then the Bengals certainly didn't go 4-0 in those games.
RE: End of the "Dalton Scale"? - Bilbo Saggins - 05-20-2015
(05-20-2015, 08:13 PM)djs7685 Wrote: Trollololol.
Wait, you are trolling right?
RECEIVING TAR REC YDS TD LG
G. Bernard 9 8 46 0 13
R. Hewitt 5 3 37 0 14
R. Burkhead 3 3 34 0 26
M. Sanu 7 3 31 0 11
K. Brock 2 1 7 0 7
B. Tate 5 0 0 0 0
G. Little 1 0 0 0 0
31 yards from one receiver, 0 from any else. While Burkhead may have not literally been the #1, it's pretty safe to say that the receivers as a whole were downright pathetic. The point that I was trying to make was that Dalton didn't regress last season. If he was "average" before why would he be well below average now? The D got worse, receivers were injured, new O scheme, but pretty much the same hot/cold Dalton.