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Bengals FA Plan - What was it, was it good? - ochocincos - 03-29-2021
The Bengals have ended up with quite a large number of outside FAs brought in, but was it the plan and was it good enough?
One has to wonder how refined their plan was heading into FA, as they:
- Allowed their top two defensive FAs leave
- Replaced them with close-but-not-better guys
- Let go of Hart and Atkins about a week into FA
You would think if they were adamant about moving on from Atkins and Hart, they would have moved on from them prior to the start of FA so that they had nearly $15 mill more cap space to work with.
With most of the FA signings only for 1 year, the only real spots they solidified were:
- DE1 (Hendrickson)
- Slot CB (Hilton)
- CB2 (Awuzie)
And between those 3, the average per year cost is $28.5 mill, which is the exact same APY cost of WJ3 and Carl Lawson.
The other positions that were filled with a (likely) stopgap 1-year rental:
- RT (Reiff)
- 3T (Ogunjobi)
- Backup S (Allen)
OG was left the same as last year with just Spain re-signed, and WR is worse since AJ Green and John Ross have both left and no replacements brought in.
Last, the Bengals still have >$20 mill in cap space, but most of that came from releases of Hart and Atkins. Had they done the releases sooner, perhaps they could have gotten a key guy at OG and/or WR.
Given what remains in FA, the Bengals are likely going to hold onto most that remaining $20+ mill cap and use a small portion for extension, but will carry over probably $9-12 mill into next year, like they always do.
What I believe their FA approach was was try to extend Lawson and put in "decent" offers to guys like Thuney and Zeitler but not willing to go beyond a certain point. It resulted in them getting none of Lawson, Thuney, or Zeitler. Now, they'll have to hope they get an immediate contributor at WR and (possibly) OG and pass rusher via the draft.
So what say you? Did the Bengals have a good plan going into FA, and was it good enough or not?
RE: Bengals FA Plan - What was it, was it good? - fredtoast - 03-29-2021
I don't know why you are not counting the guys on one-year deals. That might have been the only way they would have signed here.
I wish we had signed a OG and/or a WR, but we still upgraded the team.
-Ogunjobi is a massive upgrade over what we had at DT last year.
-Reiff is a clear upgrade over Hart.
-Hendrickson is an upgrade over Lawson. Even if talent/skill is about the same Hendrickson has been able to stay healthy.
-CB may be a bit weaker than bringing back Jackson and Alexander, but not by much.
Bengals FA Plan - What was it, was it good? - BenZoo2 - 03-29-2021
I don’t mind so much who they brought in compared to who they lost.
It blows my mind that so far they have only brought back Spain to address the gaping hole in the middle of this ol. Perhaps their plan all along was to let the top guards sign elsewhere before cutting geno and hart. They weren’t ever going to sign thuney at that money and it sounds like they lowballed Zeitler again. They just don’t appear to want to sign iol at market rates, qb health be damned!
It also looks like phase two of the plan was to sign players at other positions and target others via the draft. I would feel better about this this plan if we had even just 1 guard that played at an average to above Nfl level
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
RE: Bengals FA Plan - What was it, was it good? - ochocincos - 03-29-2021
(03-29-2021, 02:25 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't know why you are not counting the guys on one-year deals. That might have been the only way they would have signed here.
I wish we had signed a OG and/or a WR, but we still upgraded the team.
-Ogunjobi is a massive upgrade over what we had at DT last year.
-Reiff is a clear upgrade over Hart.
-Hendrickson is an upgrade over Lawson. Even if talent/skill is about the same Hendrickson has been able to stay healthy.
-CB may be a bit weaker than bringing back Jackson and Alexander, but not by much.
What do you mean I'm not counting them?
I literally said they are (likely) stopgap guys.
That's not "not counting" them, it's being real and admitting they might only be here for one year.
RE: Bengals FA Plan - What was it, was it good? - GodFather - 03-29-2021
(03-29-2021, 02:25 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't know why you are not counting the guys on one-year deals. That might have been the only way they would have signed here.
I wish we had signed a OG and/or a WR, but we still upgraded the team.
-Ogunjobi is a massive upgrade over what we had at DT last year.
-Reiff is a clear upgrade over Hart.
-Hendrickson is an upgrade over Lawson. Even if talent/skill is about the same Hendrickson has been able to stay healthy.
-CB may be a bit weaker than bringing back Jackson and Alexander, but not by much.
I don't know about that. I would put that in the category of wait-n-see. Both have plus and minus, so I would call that swap a wash at best.
RE: Bengals FA Plan - What was it, was it good? - GreenCornBengal - 03-29-2021
IMO I don’t think we had a chance of keeping Lawson even if we wanted to. He saw the way we handled one of his mentors and franchise greats at his position, why would he come back here if he could make the same money elsewhere?
As for WJ3, I don’t think he fit the scheme. Now, becoming dedicated to a scheme of a coach who will most likely be gone halfway thru the season is dumb, but if they are committed, Jackson didn’t fit the zone heavy coverage.
One thing I liked about the free agency was the goal of improved depth on the secondary. It’s something we desperately need, but it certainly wasn’t priority 1 or even priority 2. It’s a bit of a head scratcher but I get what they were going for. No more Webb or Sims running out there will be nice.
Should’ve put some more money into the OL and possibly another edge rusher (still time for that). Too many holes to fill in one offseason, but they kept the ship afloat so to speak while addressing defensive depth.
RE: Bengals FA Plan - What was it, was it good? - AQIndianHill - 03-29-2021
(03-29-2021, 03:21 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: IMO I don’t think we had a chance of keeping Lawson even if we wanted to. He saw the way we handled one of his mentors and franchise greats at his position, why would he come back here if he could make the same money elsewhere?
As for WJ3, I don’t think he fit the scheme. Now, becoming dedicated to a scheme of a coach who will most likely be gone halfway thru the season is dumb, but if they are committed, Jackson didn’t fit the zone heavy coverage.
One thing I liked about the free agency was the goal of improved depth on the secondary. It’s something we desperately need, but it certainly wasn’t priority 1 or even priority 2. It’s a bit of a head scratcher but I get what they were going for. No more Webb or Sims running out there will be nice.
Should’ve put some more money into the OL and possibly another edge rusher (still time for that). Too many holes to fill in one offseason, but they kept the ship afloat so to speak while addressing defensive depth.
They could have franchised him and laid the same aov as Hendrickson
RE: Bengals FA Plan - What was it, was it good? - bengals67 - 03-29-2021
standard Bengals free agency or maybe slightly above the D grade they would have received in most past years.
Grade of C to maybe C+
Team is not significantly better and failure to do more for o line is simply indefensible but not at all surprising.
I have no idea how they can draft a skill player at 5 instead of one of the two top o tackles given the overall minor improvements in o line from free agency.
Drafting better protection for Burrow has to be top priority or our front office is severely dense ( hey- I guess history shows that is exactly what they are)
Hope I'm wrong but I see nothing better than 4 to 6 Wins on the horizon with Burrows probably getting clobbered again.
RE: Bengals FA Plan - What was it, was it good? - yang - 03-29-2021
After the draft there will be a lot more good players become available. Teams are waiting to see who they get. We still have a long way to go .
RE: Bengals FA Plan - What was it, was it good? - SadFaceBengal15 - 03-29-2021
(03-29-2021, 02:25 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't know why you are not counting the guys on one-year deals. That might have been the only way they would have signed here.
I wish we had signed a OG and/or a WR, but we still upgraded the team.
-Ogunjobi is a massive upgrade over what we had at DT last year.
-Reiff is a clear upgrade over Hart.
-Hendrickson is an upgrade over Lawson. Even if talent/skill is about the same Hendrickson has been able to stay healthy.
-CB may be a bit weaker than bringing back Jackson and Alexander, but not by much.
Hilton is a top slot corner in this league as much as we all loved having Mackenzie Alexander we still got a good upgrade in Hilton over Alexander and in regards to Jackson and us maybe taking a hit at corner... I disagree. I think we got better with awuzie over Jackson. Now I def think Jackson has more talent and a higher ceiling but here in Cincinnati Jackson was going to continue to be worthless. He is a awful tackler and his play has drastically dipped in the passing game because he doesn’t want to be here anymore. A motivated awuzie here is a better corner than a disgruntled Jackson. We upgraded all over imo. But especially at corner imo
RE: Bengals FA Plan - What was it, was it good? - Joelist - 03-29-2021
(03-29-2021, 03:21 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: IMO I don’t think we had a chance of keeping Lawson even if we wanted to. He saw the way we handled one of his mentors and franchise greats at his position, why would he come back here if he could make the same money elsewhere?
As for WJ3, I don’t think he fit the scheme. Now, becoming dedicated to a scheme of a coach who will most likely be gone halfway thru the season is dumb, but if they are committed, Jackson didn’t fit the zone heavy coverage.
One thing I liked about the free agency was the goal of improved depth on the secondary. It’s something we desperately need, but it certainly wasn’t priority 1 or even priority 2. It’s a bit of a head scratcher but I get what they were going for. No more Webb or Sims running out there will be nice.
Should’ve put some more money into the OL and possibly another edge rusher (still time for that). Too many holes to fill in one offseason, but they kept the ship afloat so to speak while addressing defensive depth.
Actually the FA plan is pretty easy to see and on its face it is a logical one - bring in players proficient in the schemes the coaches want to run.
We let WJIII go, who although not bad in man was not good in zone. We brought in 3 CB and a safety who all are good in zone coverages. We have BADLY needed to overhaul the secondary cupboard for a while - well we did it. On the DL the utter lack of pass rush THAT ACTUALLY ARRIVED AT THE QB was a killer issue. Hendrickson actually finishes the play on pass rush and Ogunjobi restores the inside pass rush we sorely lacked. And Hilton adds a real pass rush presence out of the secondary as well.
Offensively there is no way to get around it - Reiff is a big upgrade at RT. As to Guard, resigning Spain was a good move too. We have stats around here in two different threads but the gist is once Spain and XSF were both in there at Guard the interior line problems abruptly ceased. Here are excerpts:
Quote:Miami was the last game we played where we had MJ in at Guard; XSF came back starting the next game and played through seasons end.
In the Miami game we gave up 6 sacks - it was also when Jordan Williams got hurt so the line was flip flopped again.
In the 4 games after that we gave up a TOTAL of 2 sacks 9 hits and 11 pressures. And if you remember yes Finley made a big play and we won but be stunk back there as a passer. The Rat fiasco was more nonexistent run defense and badly depleted skill positions on offense where the O had no ability to sustain drives.
So....yes once we had XSF and Spain in at G the interior line improved in both run and pass protection.
And credit to rflaulk34 for this:
Quote:Wasn't really sure where to put this, so i guess here is as good a place as any.
Pass efficiency and pressures per snap--higher number is wanted.
--------------------------------------
Hopkins --- 98.9 eff, 1 pressure per 50 snaps, 600 snaps, 1 sack, 1 hit, 10 hurries, 12 pressures
Price ------- 98.0 eff, 1 pressure per 35 snaps, 138 snaps, 1 sack, 1 hit, 2 hurries, 4 pressures
XSF -------- 98.0 eff, 1 pressure per 31 snaps, 155 snaps, 1 sack, 1 hit, 3 hurries, 5 pressures
Spain ------ 97.4 eff, 1 pressure per 22 snaps, 327 snaps, 1 sack, 4 hits, 10 hurries, 15 pressures
J-Will ------ 97.2 eff, 1 pressure per 21 snaps, 429 snaps, 3 sacks, 6 hits, 11 hurries, 20 pressures
Redmond - 97.0 eff, 1 pressure per 21 snaps, 278 snaps, 3 sacks, 2 hits, 8 hurries, 13 pressures
Fred ------- 96.0 eff, 1 pressure per 15 snaps, 293 snaps, 2 sacks, 5 hits, 13 hurries, 20 pressures
MJ --------- 96.0 eff, 1 pressure per 14 snaps, 499 snaps, 3 sacks, 15 hits, 17 hurries, 35 pressures
Hart ------- 95.4 eff, 1 pressure per 13 snaps, 552 snaps, 4 sacks, 8 hits, 32 hurries, 44 pressures
Hak-Ad --- 94.4 eff, 1 pressure per 13 snaps, 150 snaps, 4 sacks, 2 hits, 6 hurries, 12 pressures
**Reiff---- 97.9 eff, 1 pressure per 27 snaps, 567 snaps, 1 sack, 7 hits, 13 hurries, 21 pressures
The average offensive lineman will have an efficiency rating of 97.4 and give up 1 pressure per 23 snaps, on 502 snaps.
Hit percentage (percentage of the time you allow the QB to be sacked or hit--lower number is wanted)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hopkins --- .003%
XSF -------- .012%
Price ------- .014%
Spain ------ .015%
Redmond - .017%
J-Will ------ .020%
Hart ------- .021%
Fred ------- .023%
MJ --------- .036%
Hak-Ad --- .040%
**Reiff---- .014%
The average offensive lineman will have a Hit Percentage around .015%
RE: Bengals FA Plan - What was it, was it good? - bfine32 - 03-29-2021
If it's over I'd say it was average at best but there's still valuable players out there not to mention vet cuts once TC get underway.
Players such as Damiere Byrd, Marquise Goodwin, Golden Tate, Mike Iupati, Austin Reiter, Jurrell Casey, Ryan Kerrigan, and KK Short can still be had
OP points to 1 year deals, but if the world gives you lemons then make lemonade
I will say it's a success in that we did not over-spend,
We didn't give a 33 year old LT a 6 year $138 Mil contract
We didn't give an OG who has never made a 1st team All Pro or Pro Bowl a 5 year $80 Mil contract
We didn't give a complimentary WR a 4 year $72 Mil contract
Ask me how we did the day before opening day.
RE: Bengals FA Plan - What was it, was it good? - PikesPeakUC - 03-29-2021
My guess, and it's just a guess:
The Bengals realize that they have to build a young core on offense and will likely use most of their draft capital on that side of the ball. The idea would be that the offense would grow together and have cohesion because of their time together. The Reiff signing and other things just seal the cracks for a year.
So basically, attack and plug pieces in on defense, build and develop together on offense.
I'm not saying it's the right or wrong plan, but it seems like it's their plan.
RE: Bengals FA Plan - What was it, was it good? - GreenCornBengal - 03-29-2021
(03-29-2021, 03:39 PM)AQIndianHill Wrote: They could have franchised him and laid the same aov as Hendrickson
Franchising a player who doesn’t want to be around doesn’t always yield good results... see AJ Green last year.
RE: Bengals FA Plan - What was it, was it good? - Shake n Blake - 03-29-2021
(03-29-2021, 02:29 PM)BenZoo2 Wrote: I don’t mind so much who they brought in compared to who they lost.
It blows my mind that so far they have only brought back Spain to address the gaping hole in the middle of this ol. Perhaps their plan all along was to let the top guards sign elsewhere before cutting geno and hart. They weren’t ever going to sign thuney at that money and it sounds like they lowballed Zeitler again. They just don’t appear to want to sign iol at market rates, qb health be damned!
It also looks like phase two of the plan was to sign players at other positions and target others via the draft. I would feel better about this this plan if we had even just 1 guard that played at an average to above Nfl level
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
This is also my only issue with free agency, but it's a pretty big one. Maybe they're just planning on taking Sewell and placing him or Jonah inside? Even then, we could've signed someone else on the interior.
RE: Bengals FA Plan - What was it, was it good? - AQIndianHill - 03-29-2021
(03-29-2021, 04:22 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: Franchising a player who doesn’t want to be around doesn’t always yield good results... see AJ Green last year.
Yeah. Makes sense.
Lol. (It doesn't)
RE: Bengals FA Plan - What was it, was it good? - Forever Spinning Vinyl - 03-29-2021
(03-29-2021, 04:17 PM)PikesPeakUC Wrote: My guess, and it's just a guess:
The Bengals realize that they have to build a young core on offense and will likely use most of their draft capital on that side of the ball. The idea would be that the offense would grow together and have cohesion because of their time together. The Reiff signing and other things just seal the cracks for a year.
So basically, attack and plug pieces in on defense, build and develop together on offense.
I'm not saying it's the right or wrong plan, but it seems like it's their plan.
That is almost exactly what I came in here to say.
Fill in the DBs and DL through FA because, believe it or not, they fixed the LBs in last year's draft since they usually only run two out there at a time.
Draft heavy on offense to grow with the young QB. Next year, expect a defensive heavy draft.
RE: Bengals FA Plan - What was it, was it good? - Shake n Blake - 03-29-2021
(03-29-2021, 03:12 PM)GodFather Wrote: I don't know about that. I would put that in the category of wait-n-see. Both have plus and minus, so I would call that swap a wash at best.
I have Hendrickson ahead of Lawson on paper. One of them was all-pro last year and it wasn't Lawson. People don't like that Hendrickson "came out of nowhere" last year, but when you take a deeper look, his ascension was directly tied to snaps and finding the correct playing weight (quote from Sean Payton himself).
Plus you just can't overstate the importance of health when it comes to these players on big contracts. One thing we've been consistently hurt by during this 5 year run of losing, is players on big contracts that are sidelined with injuries. Geno and AJ Green come to mind.
Lawson's injury history is bad, and his production really isn't better, either. So I really don't get all the handwringing over replacing him with an all-pro who stays healthy (knock on wood).
RE: Bengals FA Plan - What was it, was it good? - Nate (formerly eliminate08) - 03-29-2021
(03-29-2021, 02:12 PM)ochocincos Wrote: The Bengals have ended up with quite a large number of outside FAs brought in, but was it the plan and was it good enough?
One has to wonder how refined their plan was heading into FA, as they:
- Allowed their top two defensive FAs leave
- Replaced them with close-but-not-better guys
- Let go of Hart and Atkins about a week into FA
You would think if they were adamant about moving on from Atkins and Hart, they would have moved on from them prior to the start of FA so that they had nearly $15 mill more cap space to work with.
With most of the FA signings only for 1 year, the only real spots they solidified were:
- DE1 (Hendrickson)
- Slot CB (Hilton)
- CB2 (Awuzie)
And between those 3, the average per year cost is $28.5 mill, which is the exact same APY cost of WJ3 and Carl Lawson.
The other positions that were filled with a (likely) stopgap 1-year rental:
- RT (Reiff)
- 3T (Ogunjobi)
- Backup S (Allen)
OG was left the same as last year with just Spain re-signed, and WR is worse since AJ Green and John Ross have both left and no replacements brought in.
Last, the Bengals still have >$20 mill in cap space, but most of that came from releases of Hart and Atkins. Had they done the releases sooner, perhaps they could have gotten a key guy at OG and/or WR.
Given what remains in FA, the Bengals are likely going to hold onto most that remaining $20+ mill cap and use a small portion for extension, but will carry over probably $9-12 mill into next year, like they always do.
What I believe their FA approach was was try to extend Lawson and put in "decent" offers to guys like Thuney and Zeitler but not willing to go beyond a certain point. It resulted in them getting none of Lawson, Thuney, or Zeitler. Now, they'll have to hope they get an immediate contributor at WR and (possibly) OG and pass rusher via the draft.
So what say you? Did the Bengals have a good plan going into FA, and was it good enough or not?
Time will tell but I liked what they did. I said before we got him that I would of gladly taken Hendrickson and let Lawson
go, Trey can finish and doesn't have the injury history Lawson has. Letting WJ3 go was a good move as he is solely a man
CB and we needed Zone corners. So even better bringing in Awuzie and Hilton who is an upgrade over Alexander as a pass
rusher. Love the Ricardo Allen signing.
Reiff is a clear upgrade over Hart and we can extend these guys next year if they play well.
It is the year of 1 year deals for everybody.
Bringing back Spain is bigger than some act and a full year for both him and XSF in the system should do wonders.
Would I like another Guard and another pass rusher, yeah. My only complaints.
RE: Bengals FA Plan - What was it, was it good? - XenoMorph - 03-29-2021
(03-29-2021, 05:10 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Time will tell but I liked what they did. I said before we got him that I would of gladly taken Hendrickson and let Lawson
go, Trey can finish and doesn't have the injury history Lawson has. Letting WJ3 go was a good move as he is solely a man
CB and we needed Zone corners. So even better bringing in Awuzie and Hilton who is an upgrade over Alexander as a pass
rusher. Love the Ricardo Allen signing.
Reiff is a clear upgrade over Hart and we can extend these guys next year if they play well.
It is the year of 1 year deals for everybody.
Bringing back Spain is bigger than some act and a full year for both him and XSF in the system should do wonders.
Would I like another Guard and another pass rusher, yeah. My only complaints.
dislike playing a lot of zone defense though if the pass rush cant get home zone usually gets torn apart. (and our passrush hasnt been getting home)