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Would You Blow Reds Up At Trade Deadline in July ??? - kevin - 05-25-2022
....and IF SO, HOW ???
I would Blow this team up and for many reasons. Top on the List is they were not able to Blow It Up right during Contract Negotiation Lockout / Strike of November to March. Second on the List is this team is heading towards 100 losses or more in 2022. Just as Bengals needed Blown Up and a Start Over, so do The Reds. Third on the List in Reds Owners said they had to cut payroll due to the financial loss of no fans or money made in 2020 Covid.
YES, I would BLOW THE REDS UP over June and July.
HOW would I do it. i would KEEP the young players who have just came up to the Reds in the last few years. They are the Future.
I would try to Dump higher paid Vets who are NOT the future. The highest paid is Votto and I would dump him any way I could. If a team is willing to pick up Half his salary that runs into 2025, I would consider that a savings to The Reds. Yes, I would pay half his salary to play for another team, and the upside is I could save the other half of his salary. I would also dump The Moose and his salary. So Votto and The Moose would be gone by end of July. I would not be in any hurry to trade Pitching. Until other young pitchers fill out the staff the Reds kind of need Castillo and Mahle.
So I would keep the Reds young players, and some of the Vets who are on The Cheap. I would keep Pitching because the Reds can barely put a pitching staff together as it is. The Contracts of Votto and The Moose would be gone by end of July. If a team is willing to pay Votto half his contract, I would consider that a WIN and he would be gone on the first plane out of Cincinnati.
To those who Love Votto, I will coin the old line used by a Baseball Owner 100 some years ago. " If I can finish in Last Place with you, I can finish in Last Place without you ".
So what type of team would I be trying to build with the Reds. Well, the Bengals kind of copied The Rams. The Reds should copy the Tampa Rays, a team that has beat the big money bags Yankees with half the payroll. The Rays NEVER make Votto type contracts. The Rays are about young players and old Vets on The Cheap and they are about PITCHING and DEFENSE. The Rays are very much into Long Relievers, and they even start them for a few innings sometimes and bring in their starter in the 3rd or 4th inning. It has worked, and the Rays have came up with New ways to play this game and the Reds need to copy their success.
It is time to finish Blowing Up The Reds and Tops on the List is highest paid Red ever Votto. They need to goose The Moose to another team also. Those 2 right there would free up a ton of Payroll and THAT is what Reds Owners are trying to do anyway and regroup and start over after the 2020 Covid year financial ruin. The Reds did add Minor League players as teams in 2020 Covid were dumping their farm systems. So teams like Reds, Tampa, Baltimore, Detroit and a few others have players coming up to make them good in THE FUTURE. What the Reds need NOW is to dump more payroll, because they are losing too much money on a team headed for 100 losses in 2022. Dumping VOTTO would be great, and dumping THE MOOSE also even better. These 2 are NOT the Future any more than AJ Green or Andy Dalton were no longer The Bengals Future.
RE: Would You Blow Reds Up At Trade Deadline in July ??? - bengalfan74 - 05-25-2022
In a lot of ways it's already been blown up.
Votto umm for one he has a full no trade clause so he has to agree. Toronto maybe ? He's owed 25 million next season. Even if Reds agree to pay half who's going to want a 40 year vet that can't hit very well anymore to pay 12.5 million to ?
Moustakas umm Since joining the Reds he's batted like .218 ? I didn't do the math just a guess. 17 HR's 59 RBI's that is of course with the 60 game or whatever 2020 season. But still nobody is going to be breaking down the door to trade for him.
Castillo may get some trade value going before it's over ? Senzel ? nobody's gonna take him.
I just don't see much blowing it up left to do.
RE: Would You Blow Reds Up At Trade Deadline in July ??? - rfaulk34 - 05-25-2022
Blowing things up is illegal.
But yes, i would love to...
RE: Would You Blow Reds Up At Trade Deadline in July ??? - guyofthetiger - 05-25-2022
The Reds will do like they always do at the trade deadline. Stand pat. Maybe they like losing.
RE: Would You Blow Reds Up At Trade Deadline in July ??? - Forever Spinning Vinyl - 05-26-2022
I would start right now with the guys that they just picked up and cost them almost nothing. You won't get elite talent for any of them but these guys are all proven major leaguers and can help teams.
Tommy Pham
Brandon Drury
Colin Moran
Matt Reynolds
Also Tyler Naquin, Kyle Farmer, Tyler Mahle and Luis Castillo, although I expect those last two to be at the deadline.
I'd only expect Moustakas to be a throw-in for budget purposes.
You can build something with India, Stephenson, Senzel and Barrero. If they could keep Castillo along with Greene and Lodolo, they could actually buy a few players to complete a roster once they finally get out of the Votto contract.
RE: Would You Blow Reds Up At Trade Deadline in July ??? - TecmoBengals - 05-26-2022
There really isn't a lot to blowup. Votto isn't going anywhere and about the only significant player that other teams might be interested in is Castillo; maybe Moose since he's a vet who has won a World Series.
As Vinyl posted, guys like Pham, Drury, Moran, and Reynolds could be traded but they aren't stars. They won't net any top prospects.
RE: Would You Blow Reds Up At Trade Deadline in July ??? - Stewy - 05-26-2022
What's left to blow?
RE: Would You Blow Reds Up At Trade Deadline in July ??? - kevin - 05-26-2022
(05-26-2022, 07:02 AM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: I would start right now with the guys that they just picked up and cost them almost nothing. You won't get elite talent for any of them but these guys are all proven major leaguers and can help teams.
Tommy Pham
Brandon Drury
Colin Moran
Matt Reynolds
Also Tyler Naquin, Kyle Farmer, Tyler Mahle and Luis Castillo, although I expect those last two to be at the deadline.
I'd only expect Moustakas to be a throw-in for budget purposes.
You can build something with India, Stephenson, Senzel and Barrero. If they could keep Castillo along with Greene and Lodolo, they could actually buy a few players to complete a roster once they finally get out of the Votto contract.
See, to me that is backwards. You are talking about dumping players that are playing well, but cost the Reds little salary.
If you aren't dumping big contracts, all moves are pointless. This is why I mention Votto at the top and add The Moose.
I also mentioned the Reds are not in a position to trade any pitching. They can barely put together a 5 man pitching staff as it is. They just don't have enough pitching right now to trade pitching. Lodolo may not pitch again for a while. So they need Castillo and Mahle for now.
I can't see trading Farmer because he is not a major salary and he can play every position in the infield and outfield and he can catch. I would not be thinking trading Naquin. I would keep the young players who could be a part of the Reds future. I would get the most out of Pham, Drury, Moran, Reynolds. No way I would trade Naquin or Drury. The goal is not to help the Yankees or some other team win.
The goal is to dump payroll, and on that you have to look to VOTTO and THE MOOSE. Reds owners should be spending every day trying to move these 2 players to other teams. They are not the future, and The Reds really need to dump their payroll.
So VOTTO and THE MOOSE. I am completely against keeping them and dumping everybody else from Castillanos, Winker, Suarez to Naquin and Drury. The Reds seem to be dumping everybody just to pay Votto, and there in lies the payroll problem of The Reds.
No Way that I would consider dumping Naquin or Drury or the players you mentioned. They are playing well, and as you say, they are not costing The Reds much money.
THE WORST thing the Reds could do is trade the whole team and keep Votto. The whole Votto thing that he can't be traded needs to end. Anybody can be traded. The Reds got out of last place once they dumped the Griffey Jr contract, and the heck with his numbers on the smoke stacks. The Reds will get better once they dump the Votto contract. People need to start accepting that. I know a Pete Rose wouldn't who likes Votto, but this is not the 1960's or 1970's. All the strikes and player salary increases that a Pete Rose likes, actually has been a bad thing for smaller city Cincinnati. The Reds last won a World Series before the 1994 long strike which changed the game forever. The Reds also lost a ton of money on the 2020 Covid Year. The Reds had spent money to win, but no baseball most of year and 2 months of cardboard fans who buy nothing at the ball park killed The Reds.
Reds Owners said last November that they needed to dump payroll due to the financial losses they took over 2020. Then you start with the highest paid Red ever, Votto. If you dropped Pham, Drury, Moran, Reynolds, Naquin, Farmer it would still be small potatoes compared to the Votto Contract. The 2 Contracts that need dumped are Votto and The Moose
The Votto Contract runs to about 2025, and each year his contract increases because of the way it was set up years ago he. So his paycheck keeps growing and growing. I think the most foolish thing the Reds could do would be to wait for his contract to run out in 2025. So in other words we can't even have a Drury or a Naquin because Votto has to get all the money. That will cause many 100 loss seasons that are just to awful to watch or go to see. The idea that The Reds can't even think of rebuilding this tram until after 2025 in not acceptable. I was a Reds Fan many decades before Votto and Bruce came up from the minors. Bruce has been long gone. After the Votto MVP year back in the Brandon Phillips era, The Reds made a contract to Votto that Cincinnati's butt can't cover. Cincinnati is NOT New York or LA, and Cincinnati needs to be like Tampa and avoid Huge Contracts and win the way Tampa has won.
So a Tampa would not dump the low salaries you are talking about. Tampa lives for good play from low salaries. Tampa would dump Votto and Moose, and Tampa would be right. I respect how Tampa doers things and can beat The Yankees so much with half the payroll. The Reds need to copy the Rays , because the Reds do not have Yankees or Dodgers money. The Reds played in Tampa for many years, so they need to take a good look at how Tampa beats The Yankees so much. If it was Tampa, Votto would have been traded long ago.
RE: Would You Blow Reds Up At Trade Deadline in July ??? - plantmanky - 05-26-2022
I dont think blow up is the right wording but, no one is not open for trade IMO.
RE: Would You Blow Reds Up At Trade Deadline in July ??? - Forever Spinning Vinyl - 05-26-2022
Jesus, Kevin. I'm not quoting all of that.
Name one team that would want to trade for Votto. What team wants a defensive liability making $25 million that can no longer hit?
You have a strange way of thinking that teams will trade for Cincy's high priced crap and not want the players on one year contracts that are playing good. Like it or not, they will be the first offered and the only way Moustakas is traded is if he starts playing great or is a throw-in with Castillo. They don't have anybody else that any team wants that will make them take Moustakas in a package deal.
RE: Would You Blow Reds Up At Trade Deadline in July ??? - TecmoBengals - 05-26-2022
(05-26-2022, 10:53 PM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: Jesus, Kevin. I'm not quoting all of that.
Name one team that would want to trade for Votto. What team wants a defensive liability making $25 million that can no longer hit?
You have a strange way of thinking that teams will trade for Cincy's high priced crap and not want the players on one year contracts that are playing good. Like it or not, they will be the first offered and the only way Moustakas is traded is if he starts playing great or is a throw-in with Castillo. They don't have anybody else that any team wants that will make them take Moustakas in a package deal.
None nor do I think Votto would waive any trade rights he may have.
RE: Would You Blow Reds Up At Trade Deadline in July ??? - bengalfan74 - 05-27-2022
(05-26-2022, 11:13 PM)TecmoBengals Wrote: None nor do I think Votto would waive any trade rights he may have.
I'd say the only way Votto would ever agree to being traded would be Toronto. And the only way they would take him is for the Reds to offer a very sweet deal. Pay all but 5 million of his contract or something ? Throw in some prospects ?
We really don't have any trade bait right now unless you wanna give up the youngins, Greene, Lodolo, India that jose Garcia/Barrero or whatever it is ?
RE: Would You Blow Reds Up At Trade Deadline in July ??? - TecmoBengals - 05-27-2022
(05-27-2022, 10:55 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I'd say the only way Votto would ever agree to being traded would be Toronto. And the only way they would take him is for the Reds to offer a very sweet deal. Pay all but 5 million of his contract or something ? Throw in some prospects ?
We really don't have any trade bait right now unless you wanna give up the youngins, Greene, Lodolo, India that jose Garcia/Barrero or whatever it is ?
It's worth mentioning, the Blue Jays don't even need Votto.
RE: Would You Blow Reds Up At Trade Deadline in July ??? - fredtoast - 05-27-2022
(05-25-2022, 02:37 PM)kevin Wrote: To those who Love Votto, I will coin the old line used by a Baseball Owner 100 some years ago. " If I can finish in Last Place with you, I can finish in Last Place without you ".
That is pretty stupid logic considering no one wants to finish in last place.
Seriously, who is trying to figure out how to finish in last place?
RE: Would You Blow Reds Up At Trade Deadline in July ??? - bengalfan74 - 05-28-2022
(05-27-2022, 11:02 AM)TecmoBengals Wrote: It's worth mentioning, the Blue Jays don't even need Votto.
And I seriously doubt they even want him.
RE: Would You Blow Reds Up At Trade Deadline in July ??? - Fan_in_Kettering - 05-28-2022
I was at the Dragons game last week when Joey Votto struck out against a minor league pitcher.
RE: Would You Blow Reds Up At Trade Deadline in July ??? - The D.O.Z. - 05-28-2022
The Rays can operate this way because they have a quality farm system. They have guys ready to fill expensive vet contracts coming up through their pipeline. They can afford to trade a guy having a career year for more top prospects before having to pay a guy $200 million.
We do not.
I’m all for getting out of Joey V’s contract but he has a full no trade clause, is content with losing and collecting a check. He isn’t going to waive that. And I would be all about trading off Moustakas, but who is really going to take him? He would have to be a toss in on a bigger trade just to dump payroll at this point. Plus you add the fact that the Reds Front office usually waits to trade guys when their value as at an all time low, so if they trade everyone off who is going to replace these already subpar players? Surely no one down on our farm system!
RE: Would You Blow Reds Up At Trade Deadline in July ??? - samhain - 05-31-2022
I'm trying to get a huge return for Castillo either at the deadline or in the offseason if I'm the Reds. Most other trade candidates aren't bringing back anything too significant. Castillo should demand a serious haul, and tonight's performance in Boston just adds more emphasis.
The reds are flush with minor league pitching prospects that are going to be ripe in a year or two. They aren't going to pay Luis. Get something now and get something good to add to an already fairly promising farm system.
I'd have said Mahle, too, but his value has taken a hit. I wouldn't sell low on anyone you don't have to.
RE: Would You Blow Reds Up At Trade Deadline in July ??? - Forever Spinning Vinyl - 05-31-2022
(05-31-2022, 09:52 PM)samhain Wrote: I'm trying to get a huge return for Castillo either at the deadline or in the offseason if I'm the Reds. Most other trade candidates aren't bringing back anything too significant. Castillo should demand a serious haul, and tonight's performance in Boston just adds more emphasis.
The reds are flush with minor league pitching prospects that are going to be ripe in a year or two. They aren't going to pay Luis. Get something now and get something good to add to an already fairly promising farm system.
I'd have said Mahle, too, but his value has taken a hit. I wouldn't sell low on anyone you don't have to.
Yeah, he killed it tonight. His only hit given up was the 2nd batter of the game. He struck out all nine Red Sox once except for JD Martinez who he struck out twice. This will look impressive to the Yankees, Jays and Rays since only the Angels have scored more runs in the AL than Boston going into today and that's only by one run.
If they do trade him, I hope it's to a AL team that they don't play for a while.
RE: Would You Blow Reds Up At Trade Deadline in July ??? - guyofthetiger - 06-01-2022
I agree to trade Castillo to a contender and let him experience the playoffs. The Reds could get a bunch of good prospects.