(12-24-2022, 12:10 PM)Goalpost Wrote: The blueprint is out there for smaller market teams.  It's Tampa.  They compete with the Red Sox, Yankees, Blue Jays etc with much smaller salaries and are more successful than the Reds.  They have smaller salaries than even the Reds and yet they compete yearly.  With Moose gone, and soon to be Votto next year, this will now become a very cheap and young team, albeit with more high end prospects than they have had in awhile.

(12-24-2022, 12:10 PM)Goalpost Wrote: The blueprint is out there for smaller market teams.  It's Tampa.  They compete with the Red Sox, Yankees, Blue Jays etc with much smaller salaries and are more successful than the Reds.  They have smaller salaries than even the Reds and yet they compete yearly.  With Moose gone, and soon to be Votto next year, this will now become a very cheap and young team, albeit with more high end prospects than they have had in awhile.

(12-24-2022, 01:06 PM)samhain Wrote: This will never happen, but natural causes will force change eventually.  Baseball will decline in popularity as fanbases lose interest in non-teams and it will cost them big money in advertising very soon.  Kids don't care about the sport anymore, and the portion of the country that really loves it (middle America) has to keep wiping spit from their faces from the owners that continue to cry poor and gaslight them.  Teams like the Reds, Pirates and A's shouldn't be allowed to exist.  

I'd but shibags like Bob and Phil in stocks for the taxpayers of Hamilton County to chuck rotten fruit at them.  Make them watch as the county blows up GABP to make room for something useful, and make the crooks pay every dime back to the citizens.  Make them walk from Covington to Dayton with a 200lb burlap sack full of worthless bobbleheads strapped to their backs on local 12 for all to watch.  it would be glorious.

(12-25-2022, 10:50 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I believe MLB is dying and I'm not sure it can be stopped. It will be a long slow death for sure. But I fully believe we're in the beginning stages.

When I was a kid you couldn't drive more than a mile or two in the summertime without seeing a game of baseball or at least wiffle ball going somewhere. Baseball is like a charging Elephant with a bullet in it's brain. 

(12-26-2022, 11:13 AM)samhain Wrote: Yeah, it sucks.  

Even youth baseball is an inhumane pressure cooker of insane parents and travel coaches that all think they're the bastard sons of Billy Martin and General Patton.  I don't know how kids even enjoy that stuff anymore.  Neighborhood baseball like we played really isn't a thing.  The fun aspect of it is basically dead on any real organized level.  It's a money machine for camps, coaches, and tournaments, all selling the idea of college scholarships and MLB careers to extremely naive parents.  You could pay for your kid's college with the cumulative amount that some of these people spend on lessons and 365 day a year travel.  

Even a kid that loves it can't compete if he doesn't have parents that can financially support him through lessons that run thousands over time and grind them down to the nub.  The ones that can either make it or hate baseball before they hit high school.

The competitive balance in the league will kill it.  300 mil payrolls vs 50-70 mil payrolls is like the Cowboys of the 90's ripping through they league with a roster that was only limited by Jerry Jones' pocketbook.  You wound up with a nation full of Cowboys bandwagoners and a bunch of other teams, mainly Buffalo, cycling though to get pounded in the Super Bowl.  Then the salary cap came along, the Cowboys drifted back to league average, and other teams had a shot based more on the actual football acumen of the front office, a department in which Jerry was sorely lacking.  

And what happened?  The league became a juggernaut of advertising money and must-see TV on a level of no other sport in this country.  Everyone thought they had a chance, because they kind of did in the grand scheme.  I love seeing the NFL crush other leagues in earnings and viewing.  It's the only remotely level playing field in terms of financial structure, and it rakes in cash.   I want players to get paid, but the day thy get the upper hand on owners is the day the league starts to die.

(12-26-2022, 11:50 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: A work buddy of mine has his two young boys in baseball. He's buying them $200 hand made gloves. $300+ dollar bats. Playing in this league, that leauge like 8 months a year. They're like 9 and 11. I told him he's nucking futs.

I've told him several times you're taking all the fun out of it for the kids. They're going to be burnt out before they reach H.S. But i guess he has Johnny Bench and Pete Rose dreams for them ?

(12-26-2022, 12:33 PM)samhain Wrote: My 9 year-old loved baseball.  He watches it, he plays baseball video games and he liked playing.  I def spent my fair share on high-dollar equipment.  He's a big kid and he's smart and super coachable, so long as I'm not the coach, lol. He also likes soccer, martial arts and going to Bengals games with me.  He wouldn't be able to do any of that stuff if he got on the travel ball/private lesson path, so guess what sport he doesn't play anymore?  it was by his choice, but I'm not forcing my kid to do anything at the expense of every other thing he enjoys at that age.  

We had a kid on his 7U team that was absolutely a special talent.  Just different in his ability and understanding.  Fast with a huge arm, great swing, and not really even all that big.  He was a machine.  His dad was the coach and stayed on his ass for 2 straight hours every single practice.  Just brutal to the point where it annoyed other parents.  then they'd pack up and go to other games later in the day, and they played year round.  One day I asked the kid what team he liked in MLB.  He said he didn't know and didn't really watch baseball or know about many players.  I'm not even sure the kid even liked baseball, from the way he talked.  Just a disaster waiting to happen.

(12-26-2022, 11:13 AM)samhain Wrote: Yeah, it sucks.  

Even youth baseball is an inhumane pressure cooker of insane parents and travel coaches that all think they're the bastard sons of Billy Martin and General Patton.  I don't know how kids even enjoy that stuff anymore.  Neighborhood baseball like we played really isn't a thing.  The fun aspect of it is basically dead on any real organized level.  It's a money machine for camps, coaches, and tournaments, all selling the idea of college scholarships and MLB careers to extremely naive parents.  You could pay for your kid's college with the cumulative amount that some of these people spend on lessons and 365 day a year travel.  

Even a kid that loves it can't compete if he doesn't have parents that can financially support him through lessons that run thousands over time and grind them down to the nub.  The ones that can either make it or hate baseball before they hit high school.

The competitive balance in the league will kill it.  300 mil payrolls vs 50-70 mil payrolls is like the Cowboys of the 90's ripping through they league with a roster that was only limited by Jerry Jones' pocketbook.  You wound up with a nation full of Cowboys bandwagoners and a bunch of other teams, mainly Buffalo, cycling though to get pounded in the Super Bowl.  Then the salary cap came along, the Cowboys drifted back to league average, and other teams had a shot based more on the actual football acumen of the front office, a department in which Jerry was sorely lacking.  

And what happened?  The league became a juggernaut of advertising money and must-see TV on a level of no other sport in this country.  Everyone thought they had a chance, because they kind of did in the grand scheme.  I love seeing the NFL crush other leagues in earnings and viewing.  It's the only remotely level playing field in terms of financial structure, and it rakes in cash.   I want players to get paid, but the day thy get the upper hand on owners is the day the league starts to die.

(12-24-2022, 01:06 PM)samhain Wrote: Teams from smaller market winning is more anomaly than rule.  KC is the only team that really followed through with an actual title.

Houston and Atlanta built strong farm systems, but they also retained and spent when the young players matured.  Those rosters were supplemented with more established talent when the window opened.  I don't think the reds will spend.  They'll roll with youth, ride or die.  if it doesn't work they'll sell off and have another 3-5 years of unwatchable baseball.  They have to prioritize winning, which they do not, and they have to be smart, which they are not.  They suck so bad that any established outside FA will cost a Moose-style overpay.

Pittsburgh and Oakland are the teams to compare the Reds with.  Maybe Milwaukee.  Milwaukee has had some good rosters, but hasn't won a thing.  

Again, MLB needs to do one of 2 things:

1. Lock out the greedy players until they break and agree to a cap of 250M per.  Baseball is a fading major sport and will fall farther as long as almost half the league consists of joke rosters full of AAAA schmucks and "prospects", alongside aged-out former stars with contracts that can't be bailed on.  Don't fold like the owners did last year.  Be willing to eat some cost for the austerity of the game.  Note: This will not happen due to TV deals and desire for games to be played by advertisers.  

2. Make owners commit to a salary floor of 150 mil per year at minimum.  If you're rich enough to buy a team you need to be able to maintain it's consistent upkeep as a non-joke franchise.  What people like the Castellini's do is like a dude making 50K a year buying a 400K house.  he can get the loan and make payments, but the upkeep and maintenance will eventually eat him alive.  All he can do is sell and cash in on equity before it either falls into disrepair or breaks him financially.  

This will also mitigate any concessions from players (lol).  Pieces of garbage like Bob and Phil will be forced to spend more or sell to someone who will, elevating the overall league wide spend, and by virtue of that player's salaries as a whole.  

This fixes 2 major issues and puts the league on some sane trajectory.  

This will never happen, but natural causes will force change eventually.  Baseball will decline in popularity as fanbases lose interest in non-teams and it will cost them big money in advertising very soon.  Kids don't care about the sport anymore, and the portion of the country that really loves it (middle America) has to keep wiping spit from their faces from the owners that continue to cry poor and gaslight them.  Teams like the Reds, Pirates and A's shouldn't be allowed to exist.  

I'd but shibags like Bob and Phil in stocks for the taxpayers of Hamilton County to chuck rotten fruit at them.  Make them watch as the county blows up GABP to make room for something useful, and make the crooks pay every dime back to the citizens.  Make them walk from Covington to Dayton with a 200lb burlap sack full of worthless bobbleheads strapped to their backs on local 12 for all to watch.  it would be glorious.

(12-29-2022, 10:24 PM)Emeritus Wrote:

Call me me crazy but I believe they'll win 60 games.
Every blog site thinks that we could possibly lose north of 100 games but thats not the Reds I know. I will say that this is the year for the kids to have fun and that they will. I'll still remain firm that the coach will be fired after next season.The one thing that you'll carry into the 2024 season is the pitching. Now by any means do I expect it to be as overpowering as it will be but you'll start to see guys find the dominance sporadically.

(12-30-2022, 02:40 AM)samhain Wrote: I guess.

I just don't see how you lose half a season of Castillo and Mahle and win more games.

Sucks, too because tanking doesn't guarantee a good draft pick in baseball, and even if it did the 1 overall takes forever to get to the bigs.

Think I might down low root for San Diego this year.

(12-30-2022, 08:07 PM)Emeritus Wrote:

I rooted for the Houston Astros because of Dusty Baker so I understand. Lots of fans have just walked away but I continue to fight although difficult.

(01-01-2023, 12:12 PM)samhain Wrote: They've dropped the budget about as low as it can go, and next year Moose and Votto will be off the books.  That will drop it even lower.  My barometer for them actually wanting to compete is what they do when that ridiculous amount of pay flex opens up, even though they already have a lot.  If they supplement these rookies with some solid big league talent, then they may regain some credibility with me.