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+--- Thread: Pre-Combine & FA PFF Simulation (/thread-34944.html)
Pre-Combine & FA PFF Simulation - OSUfan - 02-17-2023
To begin I will outline my FA and extension plan and I will note that I believe it is totally achievable:
Priorities I would have in returning FAs:
1) Vonn Bell
2) Hayden Hurst
3) Tre Flowers
4) Cal Adomitis
5) Mitchell Wilcox
6) Samaje Perine
7) Trent Taylor
8) Max Scharping
Extensions to secure:
1) Joe Burrow
2) Tee Higgins
You will note that a key free agent is missing and that is Germaine Pratt. Unfortunately, not every player will return to a team every season and I believe that his salary demands will be beyond what this team will be able to meet given upcoming extensions. With this said I feel the team is in good shape with Logan Wilson running the defense and the growth of Davis-Gaither, Bailey, and Bachie.
While I would like to see Bates back I believe that the combination of salary demand and how promising Hill looked at S in the preseason do not make this a great value for the franchise.
Onto the draft...this was run off of the PFF simulator with no trades:
Round 1 - 28th Overall Selection:
Anton Harrison - OT - Oklahoma - 6'5" 315
I feel like this is the best case scenario for the Bengals. If Harrison is sitting there he is my selection hands down and that is even if Broderick Jones is there as well. Watching film on this kid continued to support these feelings. He is a monster in the passing game and when he puts his hands on a defender they stop...period. His ability to mirror I feel is the best of the OTs in this class and that includes my Ohio State guy Parris Johnson. Harrison is not a devastating run blocker but he is not a liability either. Jonah was the weak link in '22 and unfortunately I felt Collins was right behind him. This selection gives the Bengals the chance to solidify the LT position for many years and to allow guys such as Carman to vie for the RT position.
(notables available: M. Mayer, T. McKee, N. Smith, W. McDonald, L. Musgrave)
Round 2 - 60th Overall Selection
Eli Ricks - CB - Bama - 6'2" 190
Length, speed, height...you can check virtually every box for a shutdown NFL corner. With that said, Ricks did give up his share of big plays at the collegiate level. However, he as well played on the edge of being elite as well. Playing at LSU and Bama certainly has introduced this kid to the big stage and there is just so much to work with when you look at the abilities and talent level of this kid. I believe in his firs season he easily takes the position of Apple.
(notables available: K. Boutte, S. Brown, Z. Charbonette, J. Tippman)
Round 3 - 92nd Overall Selection
Jaquelin Roy - DT - LSU - 6'4" 315
Roy will be a very welcome addition to this rotation at DT. Roy should help to take snaps from Reader which will keep him healthier and fresher. Roy has a thicker lower body which allows him to take leverage advantage and to anchor to hold his space. While he may not be a great pass rusher he has shown the ability to disrupt and certainly is an effort player on the interior. Continuing to strengthen both lines I feel are keys to maintaining the success of this franchise and Roy fits this bill.
(notables available: C. Mauch, B. Young (Tenn.), N. Sewell, T. Kraft)
Round 4 - 131st Overall Selection
Andrei Iosivas - WR - Princeton - 6'3" 205
This was my first move away from big time school players but to be honest I was shocked this kid was still sitting there. We know who are big three are and we as well know it could be difficult keeping them all in Cincinnati. Chase and Higgins are the top two priorities even while we would all like to see Boyd stay as well. Even if Boyd does stay there is room to improve beyond these three and this kid gives the franchise that opportunity. He is a world class athlete all around and an extremely smooth WR. Coming from Princeton one will have a hard time questioning his intelligence. Make no mistake this is a selection of potential and there are areas for improvement in his game but also no real reason to believe that these expectations will not be met.
(notables available: B. Young (Bama DT), J. Martin, A. Vorhees, J. Clark)
Round 5 - 165th Overall Selection
Josh Whyle - TE - UC - 6'6" 260
We do need to add to the TE room and it is done with this selection where the franchise adds the local high school and collegiate product. Whyle has added some decent bulk and strength to his frame while at UC and has worked hard to develop and improve his technique as a blocker. This maturation in this aspect of his game should continue to grow with pro coaching. Outside of being a good blocker he is a legit threat when it comes to exploiting the seams of a defense. Whyle has shown very good hands and attacks the ball when targeted. Should be a great addition to the TE room and the chance to be a future star in this offense.
Round 6 - 206th Overall Selection
Warren McClendon - OT - 6'4" 305
McClendon was the bookend OT with Broderick Jones. McClendon has shown many positives over his career playing RT at Georgia and he has as well shown areas that he needs to improve and refine and to start with that means improving his technique in attacking speed rushers. Warren is a solidly built player at OT and has shown good functional strength for the position. Experts tend to agree that many of his deficiencies can be improved thru the correction of his movement and techniques. Gives this line an experienced player from a big time program that could as well provide the potential to kick inside.
Round 7 - 248th Overall Selection
Nic Jones - CB - Ball State - 6'0" 190
Jones does not have elite skills in any one area nor is he greatly deficient in any one area. Jones checks many boxes for the CB position at the NFL level and has things you cannot coach which are height and length. Jones has shown good ball skills, good football IQ, is a solid tackler, and active against the run. Could be a kid that could be developed on the practice squad or that could steal a special teams spot and backup CB spot in the best case.
RE: Pre-Combine & FA PFF Simulation - ochocincos - 02-17-2023
There's a lot to like about this plan.
Anton Harrison looks like an ideal choice for pass protection.
The question will be does he have enough force in the run game.
Eli Ricks gives me Eli Apple or Dre Kirkpatrick vibes. Will have some dominant snaps but also give up some big plays. That would probably frustrate some (most?) of the fan base. There are other more consistent DBs I'd probably rather go instead of Ricks, but I can understand the selection. You're drafting for the ceiling.
Personally, I don't really like the existing backup LBs, but that's me. I think quite a few would be somewhat worried if ADG/Bailey/Bachie have the chops to hold down that other LB spot well enough.
Who do you have backing up Cappa and Volson? I don't see you listing Scharping for re-signing, no veteran signed, and I don't see an OG drafted.
RE: Pre-Combine & FA PFF Simulation - OSUfan - 02-17-2023
(02-17-2023, 02:04 PM)ochocincos Wrote: There's a lot to like about this plan.Let me address the last question first. I meant to have Scharping as being re-signed as he should be a rather minimal hit to the salary cap but has proven effective. It also appears that they continue to work D'Ante Smith inside and out even though I prefer him outside. With the Bengals exercising the fifth year option on Jonah Williams they get no relief if they cut him. Given his build and body type I would move him inside and work him at both right and left guard. McClendon appears as well to be a guy that could have potential kicking inside to guard.
Anton Harrison looks like an ideal choice for pass protection.
The question will be does he have enough force in the run game.
Eli Ricks gives me Eli Apple or Dre Kirkpatrick vibes. Will have some dominant snaps but also give up some big plays. That would probably frustrate some (most?) of the fan base. There are other more consistent DBs I'd probably rather go instead of Ricks, but I can understand the selection. You're drafting for the ceiling.
Personally, I don't really like the existing backup LBs, but that's me. I think quite a few would be somewhat worried if ADG/Bailey/Bachie have the chops to hold down that other LB spot well enough.
Who do you have backing up Cappa and Volson? I don't see you listing Scharping for re-signing, no veteran signed, and I don't see an OG drafted.
I think the future of linebacking in the NFL is going to require good coverage skills and I think Davis-Gathier and Bailey both fit this bill. I actually think the play of Davis-Gaither has improved dramatically since he was drafted and he is proving to be a pretty darn good all around backer that can move sideline to sideline. This does not mean I would not look in free agency and or UDFAs.
I as well almost instantly had thoughts of Kirkpatrick with Ricks but I feel the talent level is just tremendously higher. It does not hurt that he was originally at DB U....LSU. His ceiling is a very high one and he should have time to mature with Chido and Taylor-Britt leading as starters.
Finally, Harrison is not a devastating run blocker but he is also not a liability when it comes to run blocking. He is effective in the run game while he may not be a complete bulldozer.
RE: Pre-Combine & FA PFF Simulation - Synric - 02-17-2023
I want nothing to do with Anton Harrison he is not fun to watch. Quick Smooth Feet helps him mirror so well then it all goes wrong late wide hands opens his chest no anchor gets pushed back. Reminds me of Cedric Ogbuehi.
RE: Pre-Combine & FA PFF Simulation - WVUHomer - 02-17-2023
Everything I've read agrees with Synrics assessment. Weak punches and what not. I'll have to look into more but as of right now, he's a no go for me.
RE: Pre-Combine & FA PFF Simulation - OSUfan - 02-18-2023
(02-17-2023, 06:34 PM)Synric Wrote: I want nothing to do with Anton Harrison he is not fun to watch. Quick Smooth Feet helps him mirror so well then it all goes wrong late wide hands opens his chest no anchor gets pushed back. Reminds me of Cedric Ogbuehi.
Wow...I could not disagree anymore. Not sure what you have been watching. Actually what you mention as a weakness is a strength of his. He is excellent with his hands especially when it comes to keeping them inside. Rarely does he allow his hands outside of the shoulder pads.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvGU22ndQ2Q
This is against TCU and I sure do not see him getting pushed back in the passing game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugWchAShkuw
Against Nebraska the deficiencies you state certainly are not an issue.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLrKMu52AA8
This was against K State and of these three was definitely his worst game and even so at 8:57 was the only time his assignment touched the QB.
I will see what other film I can find but just not seeing what you are apparently.
RE: Pre-Combine & FA PFF Simulation - Synric - 02-18-2023
(02-18-2023, 11:27 AM)OSUfan Wrote: Wow...I could not disagree anymore. Not sure what you have been watching. Actually what you mention as a weakness is a strength of his. He is excellent with his hands especially when it comes to keeping them inside. Rarely does he allow his hands outside of the shoulder pads.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvGU22ndQ2Q
This is against TCU and I sure do not see him getting pushed back in the passing game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugWchAShkuw
Against Nebraska the deficiencies you state certainly are not an issue.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLrKMu52AA8
This was against K State and of these three was definitely his worst game and even so at 8:57 was the only time his assignment touched the QB.
I will see what other film I can find but just not seeing what you are apparently.
Its easy to pass it over considering Oklahoma runs a ton of RPOs so he jump sets most of the time. Watch his verts when rushers use speed to power his hands are late wide gives up his chest and can't drop his anchor and while he has quick smooth feet he's actually more of a linear player so he's stiff in the ankles and hips.
That's the thing about these athletic Big 12 tackles we see every year (and it starting to spread ). They jump set alot and that doesn't translate to the NFL all that well.
Lance Zeirlein's Breakdown
Quote:Overview
Collegiate left tackle with good size and length, but average athletic traits. Harrison is self-aware and does a nice job of utilizing his strengths to mask his weaknesses. He has a feel for pocket depth and uses his length and an inside-out approach to get the job done, but NFL speed could have him scrambling without help. Harrison lacks the pop and drive of a plus run blocker and is better at neutralizing opponents with proper positioning. There are some limitations athletically and it won’t always look fluid, but Harrison has the demeanor and football savvy to get the job done as a starter in time.
Strengths
Weaknesses
- Hands remain punch-ready in protection.
- Patient not to overset or overextend at the top of the rush.
- Fires his hands with some pepper on them.
- Finds full arm extension to maintain feel for rusher.
- Will find work when uncovered.
- Instinctive in his positional run blocking.
- Adequate fluidity climbing to linebackers.
- Activates hands to discard opponent’s punch.
- Has trouble locating initial hands in run game.
- Average foot chop with elevated pads as drive blocker.
- Fails to knock opponents back at first contact.
- Might not have slide quickness for desired diagonal sets.
- Connection between feet and hands is disjointed.
- Can be rocked backward by speed-to-power rush.
- Below average agility to recover when beaten.
https://www.nfl.com/prospects/anton-harrison/32004841-5257-5324-7acd-121b32d76e46
RE: Pre-Combine & FA PFF Simulation - OSUfan - 02-18-2023
(02-17-2023, 06:57 PM)WVUHomer Wrote: Everything I've read agrees with Synrics assessment. Weak punches and what not. I'll have to look into more but as of right now, he's a no go for me.
Just curious where you have "read" these things. Yeah he has things to continue to improve and technique to work on as does every single draft prospect. PFF has him graded as their #3 OT prospect and his pressures allowed rank right up there with Skoronski and Parris Johnson. Drafttek has him at #4, Draftbuzz has him at #4, CBS has him at #3, ESPN has him at #3...so consistently he is grading out inside the top 4 OT prospects in the draft.
When you read their assessments words like excellent are used when talking about his pass blocking skills. Here is a quote from one source...
Quote:"Anton Harrison is an impressive athletic left tackle prospect who has displayed excellent pass-protection skills over the past three years as a Sooner. We currently rate him as the number two ranked pass protector in the draft (after Peter Skoronski)" https://www.nfldraftbuzz.com/Player/Anton-Harrison-OL-Oklahoma
To the issue stated of weak punches...this is from NFL.com:
Quote:Strengths
- Hands remain punch-ready in protection.
- Patient not to overset or overextend at the top of the rush.
- Fires his hands with some pepper on them.
I have also posted film above and would encourage you to check it out as well. The K State game was by far his worst of the film I have found.
RE: Pre-Combine & FA PFF Simulation - Synric - 02-18-2023
(02-18-2023, 11:54 AM)OSUfan Wrote: Just curious where you have "read" these things. Yeah he has things to continue to improve and technique to work on as does every single draft prospect. PFF has him graded as their #3 OT prospect and his pressures allowed rank right up there with Skoronski and Parris Johnson. Drafttek has him at #4, Draftbuzz has him at #4, CBS has him at #3, ESPN has him at #3...so consistently he is grading out inside the top 4 OT prospects in the draft.
When you read their assessments words like excellent are used when talking about his pass blocking skills. Here is a quote from one source...
To the issue stated of weak punches...this is from NFL.com:
I have also posted film above and would encourage you to check it out as well. The K State game was by far his worst of the film I have found.
I have watched it. You have to be able to pick out the different type's of pass sets vs the rush counters.
https://thedraftnetwork.com/sr-prospect/anton-harrison-ed6ef40b-00ea-438c-a0be-66132b25037d/
Joe Marino probably has the best scouting report on Anton Harrison. I'm not saying the kid doesn't have talent he does alot high round value I just think it will be year 3 before he puts it all together if ever. I definitely wouldn't pencil him in as a starter over Jonah as a rookie.
Quote:A four-star recruit, Anton Harrison chose Oklahoma over the likes of Michigan, Ohio State, and Penn State. He earned playing time as a freshman in 2020 before settling in as the Sooners’ blindside protector in 2021 and 2022.
Harrison has the physical profile of an appealing NFL offensive tackle prospect. He features a long and athletic build with good arm length. Harrison is thick in his lower half and he’s far from maxed out. He has the athleticism needed to mirror rushers and handle speed off the edge while offering plenty of range as a run blocker. Harrison has quick and nimble feet with loose hips, which makes it natural for him to redirect, work laterally, and get into space. I like his overall balance and how he plays within himself, rarely getting overextended or top-heavy.
The key for Harrison moving forward is getting stronger and developing his footwork in pass protection to better take advantage of his length and movement skills. While Harrison isn’t overpowered at the point of attack, he is far from a people-mover that creates consistent displacement in drive-block situations. With more functional strength and by executing with better leverage, Harrison will become an even more effective blocker in the run and pass games. His pass sets are inconsistent in terms of getting the depth and width necessary to frame blocks. Too often Harrison will open his hips too soon and create soft angles for rushers to work through, which can be improved with more consistent footwork in his kickslide. Harrison has room to improve his hand technique where his timing and placement can be erratic and inconsistent.
With increased functional strength and technical growth, Harrison has the potential to be a starting left tackle in the NFL early in his career.
Top Reasons to Buy In:
Length and movement skills
Pass protection ability
Body type
Top Reasons For Concern:
Functional strength
Inconsistent pass sets
Hand placement and consistency with leverage
RE: Pre-Combine & FA PFF Simulation - OSUfan - 02-18-2023
(02-18-2023, 11:44 AM)Synric Wrote: Its easy to pass it over considering Oklahoma runs a ton of RPOs so he jump sets most of the time. Watch his verts when rushers use speed to power his hands are late wide gives up his chest and can't drop his anchor and while he has quick smooth feet he's actually more of a linear player so he's stiff in the ankles and hips.Do you mean Big 12 tackles such as Jammal Brown, Orlando Brown, Trent Williams, and Lane Johnson? Which by the way all played for Oklahoma. I would say that Oklahoma has done a pretty darn good job of producing offensive tackles at the NFL level.
That's the thing about these athletic Big 12 tackles we see every year (and it starting to spread ). They jump set alot and that doesn't translate to the NFL all that well.
Lance Zeirlein's Breakdown
https://www.nfl.com/prospects/anton-harrison/32004841-5257-5324-7acd-121b32d76e46
RE: Pre-Combine & FA PFF Simulation - OSUfan - 02-18-2023
(02-18-2023, 12:08 PM)Synric Wrote: I have watched it. You have to be able to pick out the different type's of pass sets vs the rush counters.
https://thedraftnetwork.com/sr-prospect/anton-harrison-ed6ef40b-00ea-438c-a0be-66132b25037d/
Joe Marino probably has the best scouting report on Anton Harrison. I'm not saying the kid doesn't have talent he does alot high round value I just think it will be year 3 before he puts it all together if ever. I definitely wouldn't pencil him in as a starter over Jonah as a rookie.
You can attempt to pick apart anything you may wish to and try to compartmentalize every single aspect of a player. The bottom line of it all is does he get the job done? In 2022 he allowed a single sack in over 400 snaps. Pressures allowed were right there with the top overall OT prospects in the draft. It is on rare occasion that his assignment touches the QB.
RE: Pre-Combine & FA PFF Simulation - Synric - 02-18-2023
(02-18-2023, 12:12 PM)OSUfan Wrote: Do you mean Big 12 tackles such as Jammal Brown, Orlando Brown, Trent Williams, and Lane Johnson? Which by the way all played for Oklahoma. I would say that Oklahoma has done a pretty darn good job of producing offensive tackles at the NFL level.
Cody Ford, Dru Samia, Bobby Evans... They recruit well so their talent pool for the NFL is higher alot of their tackles end up at guard.
RE: Pre-Combine & FA PFF Simulation - Synric - 02-18-2023
(02-18-2023, 12:18 PM)OSUfan Wrote: You can attempt to pick apart anything you may wish to and try to compartmentalize every single aspect of a player. The bottom line of it all is does he get the job done? In 2022 he allowed a single sack in over 400 snaps. Pressures allowed were right there with the top overall OT prospects in the draft. It is on rare occasion that his assignment touches the QB.
Isn't that the point of looking at draft prospects?
You mention he didnt allow a single sack in 400 snaps in the Big 12 neither did Darnell Wright in the SEC...(Carter Warren at Pitt in the ACC I don't think gave up a sack in 2021 but im not positive on that). That whole didn't give up a sack their last year in college happens more often then you think.
Anyway I get you are locked in on Anton Harrison that's fine I'm not a fan I would rather see Darnell Wright or even a wild Jaelyn Duncan in the 2nd round.
RE: Pre-Combine & FA PFF Simulation - WVUHomer - 02-18-2023
(02-18-2023, 12:12 PM)OSUfan Wrote: Do you mean Big 12 tackles such as Jammal Brown, Orlando Brown, Trent Williams, and Lane Johnson? Which by the way all played for Oklahoma. I would say that Oklahoma has done a pretty darn good job of producing offensive tackles at the NFL level.
Isn't that like 2/3 regime changes ago those players played for OU? I don’t thinko their success (or any failure not listed in that group) has any baring on how they translated to the NFL.
RE: Pre-Combine & FA PFF Simulation - OSUfan - 02-18-2023
(02-18-2023, 12:28 PM)Synric Wrote: Isn't that the point of looking at draft prospects?
You mention he didnt allow a single sack in 400 snaps in the Big 12 neither did Darnell Wright in the SEC...(Carter Warren at Pitt in the ACC I don't think gave up a sack in 2021 but im not positive on that). That whole didn't give up a sack their last year in college happens more often then you think.
Anyway I get you are locked in on Anton Harrison that's fine I'm not a fan I would rather see Darnell Wright or even a wild Jaelyn Duncan in the 2nd round.
I would not say locked in as I would love to have Skorkoski, Parris Johnson, or Broderick Jones even though I do like Harrison better than Jones in pass protection.
Yes the not giving up a sack is not out of the ordinary however, the scouting profiles that go along with each prospect can be vastly different would you not agree? Have you seen one report on Harrison that states that they feel he will not be successful in the NFL?