(07-31-2023, 06:48 PM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: While I like Ashcraft, I get a little confused about one thing.

I never knew that you had to learn how to throw a fastball.

He throws three pitches: a cutter, a slider and a sinker. He does not throw a two seam or a four seam fastball, he only throws cutters and sinkers as a fastball substitute. He threw 12 changeups as a rookie last year(all 12 were to lefties) but none this year.

Part of Corbin Burnes mastery is sneaking in the fastball when the hitter is looking for his awesome cutter.

How in the #### do you get to the big leagues and not be able to throw a fastball?

Does not compute . . . I are cunfyoozed.

Quote:Ashcraft’s fastball was approaching 100 mph, but he couldn’t throw the ball straight. So the Reds then-minor league assistant pitching coordinator Eric Jagers, who’s now the Reds’ big league assistant pitching coach, helped protect the rest of the minor league pitchers by playing catch with Ashcraft.  

At first, Jagers focused on straightening out Ashcraft’s fastball. While playing catch, one pitch would cut to Jagers’ left and another would cut the other way. Whatever Ashcraft tried, his fastball was all over the place.


Then, Jagers had a breakthrough when he framed the challenge in a different way.
“Is this a problem, or is it just really unique?” Jagers thought. “Can it be consistent? Can we own the cut? Can you harness that and be consistent? That’s what we were after.”

And now, that’s who Ashcraft is. The rookie has a 1.14 ERA through four starts in the Reds rotation, and he still isn’t throwing a straight fastball. Over the last three years with the Reds, Ashcraft polished a 100 mph cutter that can move as much as some pitchers’ sliders. And he developed a sinker that cuts in the opposite direction.

(07-31-2023, 03:37 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Hunter Greene only has 73.1 innings pitched but sitting at 100 strikeouts.

As it stands, Greene is 3rd in IP behind Ashcraft (105 IP) and Weaver (86 IP).
Abbott, Lively, and Williamson all have between 60 and 70 IP, so really just a couple starts away from Greene, innings-wise.

What blows my mind is how Greene is still 24 strikeouts ahead of the next pitcher, Ashcraft.
Ashcraft has over 30 innings pitched more.
Weaver, Abbott, and Lively are in the 60's for strikeouts. They average ~1 strikeout an inning.

Just goes to show how dominant Greene has been when it comes to punching out guys.

Personally, I look forward to having him back in late August (hopefully).

(07-31-2023, 03:37 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Hunter Greene only has 73.1 innings pitched but sitting at 100 strikeouts.

As it stands, Greene is 3rd in IP behind Ashcraft (105 IP) and Weaver (86 IP).
Abbott, Lively, and Williamson all have between 60 and 70 IP, so really just a couple starts away from Greene, innings-wise.

What blows my mind is how Greene is still 24 strikeouts ahead of the next pitcher, Ashcraft.
Ashcraft has over 30 innings pitched more.
Weaver, Abbott, and Lively are in the 60's for strikeouts. They average ~1 strikeout an inning.

Just goes to show how dominant Greene has been when it comes to punching out guys.

Personally, I look forward to having him back in late August (hopefully).

(07-31-2023, 08:29 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: The Velocity/Strikeout era has been a disaster for MLB pitching. Hunter Greene is averaging 5.1 innings per start and has a 1.350 WHIP. He averages 18.5 pitches per 3 outs.

All the focus on velocity in strikeouts in today's game has ignored things like simply getting guys out quickly and easily so you can keep your pitch count low, throw more innings, and not blow out your arm. 

It's why guys like DeGrom is having his 3rd TJ surgery and probably ended his career, Strasburg is put together with elmer's glue, and Syndergaard burned out before he could ever really get started.

Greene's fastball averages 98.4mph this year, but has a weighted value of -3.4 with only his slider out of his trio of fastball/slider/changeup being a plus pitch this year. Throwing less hard while aiming for better location and movement would produce better results and possibly be less likely to have him keep going on the IL, too.

A soft ground ball is almost as good, or even better if you have someone on first, than a strikeout. It can only take 1 pitch, and you don't need to blow out your arm/shoulder/etc to get it. Cueto was a master of that. 6 year span where he had only 7.6 K/9, but a 2.73 ERA, 1.084 WHIP, and 16 complete games/7 shutouts plus 2 more complete games in the postseason including one in the World Series... and it wasn't so long ago that it isn't still basically the same game played today.



/angry old man yelling at the clouds

(08-01-2023, 01:09 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: The obsession with strikeouts is not a new phenomenon in baseball. It's not a coincidence that the most storied pitchers in the game's history are also among the strikeout leaders. Nolan Ryan, Randy Johnson, Roger Clemens (before the steroids accusations), Tom Seaver, Greg Maddux, Phil Niekro, Max Scherzer, Justin Verlander, Pedro Martinez, Clayton Kershaw etc. Strikeouts are basically synonymous with hall of famers. The top 25 career strikeout leaders are either in the hall of fame, currently active (and surefire hall of famers) or held out because they are not yet eligible (with one player who isn't in the hall of fame but his numbers indicate he should in Mickey Lolich. I wonder what the deal is there...). And then Curt Shilling and Roger Clemens are in there too, who are held out for non-baseball reasons. 

(08-01-2023, 09:30 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: There is a huge difference between getting strikeouts, and FOCUSING on strikeouts. Even more so when you're relying on velocity to focus on strikeouts.

A big reason why all those Hall of Famers are littering the top-25 career strikeout list? Those guys stayed healthy to pitch a LOT of innings for a LOT of years. Nobody in the top 40 pitched less than 2,600 innings. That's 13 years of 200 innings. Guys throwing harder and harder resulting in shorter outings and more injuries will never be able to accumulate enough to be anywhere near the top-25 list before their arm stops working. (I guess Gerrit Cole might have a chance, but if he does it will be largely from the huge boost in Ks he got while cheating.)

Fangraphs only has velocity going back to 2002, but depending on the year in their career, their fastball has largely averaged around...
Scherzer: 93-94
Verlander: 92-95
Kershaw: 90-93


I guarantee you all of those guys could have thrown harder if they wanted to, but in order to do so they couldn't throw as many pitches, couldn't go as many innings, would sacrifice some control that would lead to more walks, and probably get hurt more leading to shorter careers.

Much like how I don't see any run-heavy QB thriving into their mid-30s, I don't think we're ever going to see the 98-100mph starters have long or healthy careers. You see a guy who can hit 100, and you just know it's an eventuality that they're going to have at least one TJ among other problems. 

Human bodies just aren't designed for that kind of punishment, and you'd be much better off with a sustainable low-90s with movement that you can actually locate, mixed with some offspeed pitches will let you throw 100-110 pitches a start, 180-220 innings a year, for 15 years.