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+--- Thread: Shout out to Duke and the scouts (/thread-36250.html)
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Shout out to Duke and the scouts - pally - 08-29-2023
The drafts over Zac's tenure have been crazy good overall
2020
5 still with the team, 2 in limbo
3 stars-Burrow, Higgins, Wilson
2-solid contributors-Gaither-Davis, Bailey
2-Contributors Adeniji and Kareem (both were waived today, both likely to land on their team's PS)
2021
8 out of 10 are still with the team
2 stars- Chase and McPherson
6 second stringers-Carman, Ossai, Sample, Smith, Hill, Evans
2 busts-Shelvin, Hubert
2022
5 out 6 still on 53
3 starters- Volson, Hill, Taylor-Britt
2-will be main contributors-Anderson, Carter
1-will be on PS and contributed last season-Gunter
2023
All picks made the team
over 4 years 31 picks and 26 are still on the team an 83.8% rate. 2 will likely be on our PS and 1 other on another team's.
Overall that is a pretty darn good success rate in the NFL. Shoot, it wasn't that long ago that entire draft classes were out of the league in 4 years
RE: Shout out to Duke and the scouts - Soonerpeace - 08-29-2023
(08-29-2023, 09:38 PM)pally Wrote: The drafts over Zac's tenure have been crazy good overall
2020
5 still with the team, 2 in limbo
3 stars-Burrow, Higgins, Wilson
2-solid contributors-Gaither-Davis, Bailey
2-Contributors Adeniji and Kareem (both were waived today, both likely to land on their team's PS)
2021
8 out of 10 are still with the team
2 stars- Chase and McPherson
6 second stringers-Carman, Ossai, Sample, Smith, Hill, Evans
2 busts-Shelvin, Hubert
2022
5 out 6 still on 53
3 starters- Volson, Hill, Taylor-Britt
2-will be main contributors-Anderson, Carter
1-will be on PS and contributed last season-Gunter
2023
All picks made the team
over 4 years 31 picks and 26 are still on the team an 83.8% rate. 2 will likely be on our PS and 1 other on another team's.
Overall that is a pretty darn good success rate in the NFL. Shoot, it wasn't that long ago that entire draft classes were out of the league in 4 years
The organization seems to be meshing great
RE: Shout out to Duke and the scouts - Frank Booth - 08-29-2023
minus the o-line picks
RE: Shout out to Duke and the scouts - TheLeonardLeap - 08-29-2023
Making the team doesn't mean you were a good pick. John Ross and Cedric Ogbuehi were both on the team for 4 years.
Not to say that they haven't had some good drafts what with Burrow, Higgins, Wilson, and Chase, but % making the roster/still being on the roster isn't really a good determination of that.
RE: Shout out to Duke and the scouts - Luvnit2 - 08-29-2023
(08-29-2023, 09:51 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Making the team doesn't mean you were a good pick. John Ross and Cedric Ogbuehi were both on the team for 4 years.
Not to say that they haven't had some good drafts what with Burrow, Higgins, Wilson, and Chase, but % making the roster/still being on the roster isn't really a good determination of that.
So what is your measurement? I agree with Pally, having 8 draft picks make a team that went 12-4 and lost in the AFC Championship has to be figured into the equation in my humble opinion.
RE: Shout out to Duke and the scouts - PDub80 - 08-29-2023
(08-29-2023, 09:51 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Making the team doesn't mean you were a good pick. John Ross and Cedric Ogbuehi were both on the team for 4 years.
Not to say that they haven't had some good drafts what with Burrow, Higgins, Wilson, and Chase, but % making the roster/still being on the roster isn't really a good determination of that.
Except that's not what he said. He even broke down contrinution levels and roles.
The guys making the roster that the Bengals have drafted has lead to one of the most talented teams in the league, back to back division titles, 1 SB, & back to back AFCCGs. To point to superstars and ignore the guys who make up majority of the roster and have been in CIncy contributing is basic & casual at best.
The drafting has been SUPERB to the point where making this roster is a massive achievement. ZT, Duke, scouts, Katie have massively overhauled what Marvin & Mike built and it has worked with staying power. Take your baseless negativity somewhere else and show some respect.
RE: Shout out to Duke and the scouts - Nepa - 08-29-2023
(08-29-2023, 09:51 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Making the team doesn't mean you were a good pick. John Ross and Cedric Ogbuehi were both on the team for 4 years.
Not to say that they haven't had some good drafts what with Burrow, Higgins, Wilson, and Chase, but % making the roster/still being on the roster isn't really a good determination of that.
I agree with this point, that "% making the roster/still being on the roster isn't really a good determination" of draft success. It seems to me that even when the Bengals were poor that posters were touting that they were retaining a great % of their draft picks.
That being said, these last four years have been, as Pally [she] said, very successful drafts, with quite a few high quality players. I was about to write earlier that this present draft class, if Murphy and Battle pan out, looks to be very good, from one through seven. The Bengals seemed to have filled the depth with very good players who could grow into being quality starters. It is terrific that even the 5th, 6th, and 7th round picks seem to have supplanted veterans.
RE: Shout out to Duke and the scouts - pally - 08-29-2023
(08-29-2023, 09:51 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Making the team doesn't mean you were a good pick. John Ross and Cedric Ogbuehi were both on the team for 4 years.
Not to say that they haven't had some good drafts what with Burrow, Higgins, Wilson, and Chase, but % making the roster/still being on the roster isn't really a good determination of that.
I agree there is a difference between simply making the team is not a measure of success. John Ross and Tyler Shelvin were both examples of that. Unfortunately, though, not every player can be a star, so we have to look at players who have contributed successfully to the team. For some, that means improving every year or learning that their role is a backup or a special teams player
A successful draft is choosing players who contribute to the team. And Duke and his team have done that over the past 4 years with a good mix of stars, good, and back of roster guys
RE: Shout out to Duke and the scouts - bfine32 - 08-29-2023
(08-29-2023, 09:51 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Making the team doesn't mean you were a good pick. John Ross and Cedric Ogbuehi were both on the team for 4 years.
Not to say that they haven't had some good drafts what with Burrow, Higgins, Wilson, and Chase, but % making the roster/still being on the roster isn't really a good determination of that.
Making the team of a team that has gone to the Superbowl and the AFC Championship game is a little different than the teams Ced/Ross made.
Don't you agree?
RE: Shout out to Duke and the scouts - Go Cards - 08-30-2023
Could not be more happier with the results, kudos to the scouts, coaches, and FO.
RE: Shout out to Duke and the scouts - Danimal - 08-30-2023
Pretty impressive 3-4 years of drafting. You will always have picks that end up flopping, but having total classes being a bust is what killed us in the past. Love the direction this organization has taken and I have hope for the future. Being a fan since 1980, I can’t say that always been the case……
RE: Shout out to Duke and the scouts - Mike M (the other one) - 08-30-2023
(08-29-2023, 10:14 PM)Nepa Wrote: I agree with this point, that "% making the roster/still being on the roster isn't really a good determination" of draft success. It seems to me that even when the Bengals were poor that posters were touting that they were retaining a great % of their draft picks.
That being said, these last four years have been, as Pally [she] said, very successful drafts, with quite a few high quality players. I was about to write earlier that this present draft class, if Murphy and Battle pan out, looks to be very good, from one through seven. The Bengals seemed to have filled the depth with very good players who could grow into being quality starters. It is terrific that even the 5th, 6th, and 7th round picks seem to have supplanted veterans.
I understand your angle, but this isn't the 90's anymore where everyone makes the team and half end up starting. The last few years, only a select few have actually started from Day 1. Everyone else gets a chance to be worked into the system. Which is much better than throwing guys out there because of lack of talent when they are not NFL ready, so they are setup to fail from the start.
RE: Shout out to Duke and the scouts - ochocincos - 08-30-2023
(08-29-2023, 09:38 PM)pally Wrote: The drafts over Zac's tenure have been crazy good overall
2020
5 still with the team, 2 in limbo
3 stars-Burrow, Higgins, Wilson
2-solid contributors-Gaither-Davis, Bailey
2-Contributors Adeniji and Kareem (both were waived today, both likely to land on their team's PS)
2021
8 out of 10 are still with the team
2 stars- Chase and McPherson
6 second stringers-Carman, Ossai, Sample, Smith, Hill, Evans
2 busts-Shelvin, Hubert
2022
5 out 6 still on 53
3 starters- Volson, Hill, Taylor-Britt
2-will be main contributors-Anderson, Carter
1-will be on PS and contributed last season-Gunter
2023
All picks made the team
over 4 years 31 picks and 26 are still on the team an 83.8% rate. 2 will likely be on our PS and 1 other on another team's.
Overall that is a pretty darn good success rate in the NFL. Shoot, it wasn't that long ago that entire draft classes were out of the league in 4 years
Was there a reason 2019 draft class was left off?
RE: Shout out to Duke and the scouts - Mgbrown66 - 08-30-2023
What are the best/worst Bengals drafts in history?
RE: Shout out to Duke and the scouts - ochocincos - 08-30-2023
(08-29-2023, 09:51 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Making the team doesn't mean you were a good pick. John Ross and Cedric Ogbuehi were both on the team for 4 years.
Not to say that they haven't had some good drafts what with Burrow, Higgins, Wilson, and Chase, but % making the roster/still being on the roster isn't really a good determination of that.
Agreed.
Just being on the roster, especially as a backup, doesn't mean you're good.
It means the team hasn't given up on you yet.
RE: Shout out to Duke and the scouts - bengalfan74 - 08-30-2023
They've done a better job lately, it's safe to say. IMHO
RE: Shout out to Duke and the scouts - ochocincos - 08-30-2023
(08-30-2023, 10:52 AM)Mgbrown66 Wrote: What are the best/worst Bengals drafts in history?
2019 has to be up there.
Jonah Williams - had been solid at times, but never a stud, and has disappointed/been injured for long periods other times. Now moved to right side and expected to depart after rookie contract ends.
Drew Sample - Perennial backup TE, hasn't lived up to many people's expectations of a 2nd round TE, which is to be a solid-or-better starter by his 5th season.
Pratt - Started out slow but he's turned into a good pick.
Finley - terrible. At least we got that Steelers game though lol
Wren - terrible.
Jordan - terrible.
Trayveon Williams - Someone who I actually liked and still like, but he's not really gotten much opportunity. Nothing more than a perennial backup with some good YPC in limited opportunities.
Deshaun Davis - terrible.
Rodney Anderson - could never recover from his college injuries.
Jordan Brown - terrible.
So out of this draft?
1 good starter (Pratt)
1 up and down starter (Jonah)
2 perennial backups (Sample, Trayveon)
6 bad
None of those guys contributed well during their rookie seasons.
RE: Shout out to Duke and the scouts - Bengalion - 08-30-2023
(08-30-2023, 10:52 AM)Mgbrown66 Wrote: What are the best/worst Bengals drafts in history?
The 2015 class was the worst I've ever seen. First two picks (Cedric Ohbuehi and Jake Fisher were complete busts). Tyler Kroft and Uzomah were just decent, Kroft did nothing to help us but he had a couple of decent years in Buffalo. Uzomah was a great leader but he was just decent for us on the field. Marcos Alford (7th round pick), P..J Dawson (3th round pick), Josh Shaw (4th round pick), Marcus Hardison (5th round pick) and Derron Smith (6th round pick) are out of the league now and they did nothing to contribute.
RE: Shout out to Duke and the scouts - TecmoBengals - 08-30-2023
The players Duke & Zac are drafting have taken the Bengals to a Super Bowl and an AFC Championship game. I think we can put to rest any overly critical reactions people might have about their drafts.
RE: Shout out to Duke and the scouts - bfine32 - 08-30-2023
(08-30-2023, 10:52 AM)Mgbrown66 Wrote: What are the best/worst Bengals drafts in history?
Outside of taking a Chain-Smoking TE in the 3rd; 2001 has to be near the top:
Justin
Chad
Rudi
TJ