(04-03-2024, 12:31 PM)depthchart Wrote: To me, Hitting on a round 1 pick is what matters most. (more than what specific position it is)

If they take an OT and miss, then they will be chasing after a Tackle next offseason AND they missed the chance to hit at another position.

*If say they HIT on a WR in round one, then they don't have to spend Money on that spot next offseason. (or re-Draft that 1 Roster spot)

That in turn frees up Money for a Free Agent OT or whatever next offseason.

Same with Hitting on a DT or Corner or Interior O-line etc in round 1.

Hitting fills a spot and Frees up Money that can be used in the next Offseason by not having to fill that spot.

This is why I am more open to Drafting other positions in round 1 besides OT.

I don't mind if they take OT in round 1 but they just Flat out need to get it right.

Just hit Baby !

(04-03-2024, 02:04 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: I disagree.

Hitting on the first round pick is big and can help out a franchise a great deal, especially if you hit, but the mid and late rounds are where the draft is won, IMCO.

The value to fill the roster with quality players to put around your stars is more important than the first round pick.

That's why our lack of scouts in the past has been a problem because we were unable to find the smaller school guys or guys that didn't make all the highlight films on TV.

The first round pick is big because, like this year, it can help us build/finish building the line to protect our franchise (Burrow) or give him an important weapon (Bowers, Thomas Jr, etc), and can help put us over the edge, but the rounds after the first are where you find your quality players to build your roster, and that's the most important.

I'm definitely hoping we hit on our first round pick, but look at the history of our first round picks and we tend to miss more than we hit on names that make a huge difference to our team, especially in the first year: Price, Ross, Bill Jackson, Dennard, Eifert, Cedric Ogbuehi (definitely didn't live up to anywhere near his potential, especially in year one).

Like I said, I'm definitely hoping we hit on our first pick and he can be someone to be big for the franchise for a long time, but, like I said, the first pick is far from the most important pick.

(04-03-2024, 12:31 PM)depthchart Wrote: To me, Hitting on a round 1 pick is what matters. (more than what specific position it is)

If they take an OT and miss, then they will be chasing after a Tackle next offseason AND they missed the chance to hit at another position.

*If say they HIT on a WR in round one, then they don't have to spend Money on that spot next offseason. (or re-Draft that 1 Roster spot)

That in turn frees up Money for a Free Agent OT or whatever next offseason.

Same with Hitting on a DT or Corner or Interior O-line etc in round 1.

Hitting fills a spot and Frees up Money that can be used in the next Offseason by not having to fill that spot.

This is why I am more open to Drafting other positions in round 1 besides OT.

I don't mind if they take OT in round 1 but they just Flat out need to get it right.

Just hit Baby !

(04-04-2024, 11:48 AM)Whatever Wrote: This is where I like to look at the strength of the draft class for certain positions compared to needs.  Using the Consensus Big Board for average ranking, these are the players with 1st round grades current that there's a fairly reasonable chance will be there at 18,arranged by need.

WR(Need immediate starter)

18.Brian Thomas Jr.
29.Adonai Mitchell 

OT(Need starter for next year)

14.Taliese Fuaga
15.Oli Fashanu 
19.JC Latham
20.Troy Fautanu 
22.Amarius Mims
30.Tyler Guyton

C(Need starter for next year)

24.Jackson Powers-Johnson
27.Graham Barton

Edge(Need starter in 2 years)

13.Jared Verse
16.Laiatu Latu
28.Chop Robinson 

3-tech(Need Starter in two years)

17.Byron Murphy
26.Jer'Zahn Newton 

CB(need starter in 2 years)

11.Quinyon Mitchell 
12.Terrion Arnold
21.Cooper DeJean
23.Nate Wiggins 
25.Kool-Aid McKinstry 


I bring this up because usually when you have a number of reasonable options at a position, you can pinpoint a guy that has the traits that fit your scheme, instead of being stuck in a position where "I need this, but this guy doesn't really do X or Y, but I want/need a guy at this position."

(04-04-2024, 12:12 PM)depthchart Wrote: It seems like Zac & the Bengals really want that Personality Fit as well with their picks.

Guys that Fit into the Team Chemistry.

As a Fan, I tend to think of who could have a Big (more immediate if not instant) impact on improving the Team or a Unit on the Team.

Which player might have a chance to be an ALL Pro or Great player in Round 1.

Finances and the Pipeline of Players coming in to eventually replace current Starters down the road is likely playing a large role

in how the Bengals Draft plus the Scheme Fit as you suggest.

Will TEE's financial factors drive a decision to Draft say Brian Thomas Jr ? (assuming he is a Scheme & Personality fit)

Could they see Great traits in a Corner or DE that sway them in that direction ?

Would a "so so" RT option in this Draft in Round 1 really be better than say a Top Center or IOL option ?

A way that seems right could end up wrong and vice versa (making it Fun to discuss)

(04-04-2024, 01:20 PM)Whatever Wrote: Thomas is tempting if there.  He fills an immediate starter need, likely moves into the WR2 role when Higgins leaves next year, and should give you 5 years as a relatively cheap starter while Chase is making big bucks.  But if he doesn't really fit, do you go with Mitchell, who's a very different type of receiver?  Personally, I wouldn't.

The top of this T class is extremely exciting.  Last year, Broderick Jones started the "new wave" of OT's.  His technique is horrible, but he dominated in college and played reasonably well as a rookie because he's just so freakishly athletic.  He had 9.39 RAS.  Joe Alt has a 9.92.  Fashanu is 9.49.  Fuaga is 9.71. Mims is 9.53.   Fautanu is 9.45.  Guyton is 9.62.  And for further reference, Penei Sewell, the guy everyone was drooling over a few years back and has developed into an All Pro T...8.98.  Aside from Latham, who won't test to save his life, all the first round graded T's this draft have beyond elite upside.  In fact, the only thing stopping some of these guys from perennial All Pro status is the other guys in this draft class.

Drafting OL, specifically T's, has been extremely hard for close to a decade simply because Edge rushers' athleticism has grown by leaps and bounds.  The margin of error when it comes to technique was so slim.  This class really represents the pendulum swinging back the other way.  These guys are so big and athletic that even if their technique fails them, they will still get the job done.  They don't have to be perfect, or even close.

(04-03-2024, 12:31 PM)depthchart Wrote: To me, Hitting on a round 1 pick is what matters. (more than what specific position it is)

If they take an OT and miss, then they will be chasing after a Tackle next offseason AND they missed the chance to hit at another position.

*If say they HIT on a WR in round one, then they don't have to spend Money on that spot next offseason. (or re-Draft that 1 Roster spot)

That in turn frees up Money for a Free Agent OT or whatever next offseason.

Same with Hitting on a DT or Corner or Interior O-line etc in round 1.

Hitting fills a spot and Frees up Money that can be used in the next Offseason by not having to fill that spot.

This is why I am more open to Drafting other positions in round 1 besides OT.

I don't mind if they take OT in round 1 but they just Flat out need to get it right.

Just hit Baby !

(04-04-2024, 02:20 PM)ochocincos Wrote: This is why I wasn't a huge fan of all the 1-year rental deals that happened in FA.
Having Trent Brown and Mike Gesicki for just this year doesn't solidify those positions.
Same with Higgins on the tag.
The Bengals still need multi-year stability there from quality performers, so a draft need still makes sense.
Those draft picks just don't have to be thrust into starting as rookies because of those 1-year rentals.

It's going to be interesting to see how the Bengals draft this season, as they could easily go a bunch of ways and it would make sense.
The debate will be why this position early vs that one, but there are a lot of spots that will need an upgrade this year or next year.

(04-04-2024, 02:34 PM)depthchart Wrote: There are so many ways to look at it which makes it fascinating.

There will be a whole new batch of 1 year rental guys available next year and I would find some comfort in that.

Although I would like to Lower the number of 1 year rental guys by getting more long term hits in the Draft. (for sure)

The TEE issue HOVERS over everything.  IMO

Tight ends seem cheaper & easier to get but maybe Bowers slips to #18.

Very Tempting Offensive Tackle Class is hard to pass up on.

I think hard about BPA and hope it matches up to one of those long term Hole needs but stay flexible if it doesn't.

(04-04-2024, 02:58 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Out of all the position groups, OT and WR look to be the most stacked.
But different people look at that and think, "We're good to wait on a talent into Day 2/3 with so much talent."
Others might think, "We should get one of the best in a great draft class at this strong position group."
But there's also one other part to play in all of this...How good is the coaching staff to be able to get the most out of these strong vs weak position groups?
For example, do we trust Pollack and Co. with a drafted early-round OT with it being a strong draft class, or should they go with a position they are better at developing like WR?

(04-04-2024, 03:27 PM)depthchart Wrote: The Bengals had that 6th round Comp pick turned into a 3rd round pick #97.

In my mind, I see that as a Bonus and then see the 4th round pick #115 as maybe Trade bait to go up some in round 1.

Say that 4th round pick can get the Bengals to pick #14. (making sure a Tackle they like is there after pick #13 is called before Trading)

Maybe this gets a Fuaga, Latham or Fashanu.

*Then for me, Xavier Leggette WR in round 2 could be the Boyd replacement in 2024 with a possibility of becoming the TEE replacement in 2025.

**Or others may like different receivers instead of Leggette in the 2nd round or later.

This could be small Trade Up time in my mind.

(04-04-2024, 03:38 PM)ochocincos Wrote: FWIW, the trade value chart puts Pick 115 at 64 points only.
Combining that with the 18th overall pick would only equate to about the 17th overall pick.
Those Day 3 picks are basically worthless if trying to trade up in the 1st round.
You would need to trade the 49th or 80th overall pick to jump up even a few spots.

18th overall - 900 pts
49th overall - 410 pts
80th overall - 190 pts

18+49 = 1310 pts, which would be right around 10th overall pick (1300 pts)
18+80 = 1090 pts, which would be right around 14th overall (1100 pts)

(04-04-2024, 03:43 PM)depthchart Wrote: In 2023 the Steelers & Patriots made this Trade. The Steelers went up for Broderick Jones OT

. New England traded a first-round selection (14th) to Pittsburgh in exchange for first- and fourth-round selections (17th and 120th overall)

Compare to Bengals give #18 & #115  to go up to #14.

I think they could get up more than one spot.

(04-04-2024, 03:53 PM)ochocincos Wrote: 17th and 120th overall = 1004 pts on the chart.
That's better than 964 that you are proposing.

In your scenario, the Pats were only going back 3 spaces, not 4.
What you are proposing is the Saints in this case moving back 4 spaces just to get a 4th round pick as well.

The trade value chart isn't perfect, but moving from 14 to 18 and only getting 115 feels not worth it to me if I'm the Saints.

From what I had heard, the Jets may be interested in picking up some extra picks since they gave up some for Rodgers.
If they aren't liking who is there at 10th overall for them, they might be interested in trading back. I imagine it'd need to include 49th or 80+97 though if moving all the way back to 18th.

(04-04-2024, 01:52 PM)depthchart Wrote: The Tackle Class does look exciting and the Bengals could go that direction while also seeing the WR Class as deep enough to focus

on a Tyler Boyd WR #3 replacement in this Draft say later in rounds 2 or 3. I think a player like Xavier Leggette would be a good 

Tyler Boyd replacement who would also have a chance to be a 2025 TEE replacement with his 4.39 speed.

There could also be other Tyler Boyd replacement options later.

This could open up a 1st round OT pick.

I think that Alt, Fuaga, Fashanu & Latham could all be drafted before pick #18.

If you also thought that was likely -  What would you do ?  (take Mims ?  maybe Trade down for Guyton ?  maybe Trade up for one of those 4 ?

(04-06-2024, 02:07 PM)BoomerFan Wrote: If Rd 1 matters, would you support trading our Rd 3 comp to move up a few spaces? Every time I do a mock it seems like Mims or Latham are our tackle choices. That might be fine but if not then moving up would make sense.

Then again, Marvin Lewis used to say you build your team in rounds 2-5. I think he was mostly right about that.

(04-03-2024, 12:31 PM)depthchart Wrote: To me, Hitting on a round 1 pick is what matters. (more than what specific position it is)

If they take an OT and miss, then they will be chasing after a Tackle next offseason AND they missed the chance to hit at another position.

*If say they HIT on a WR in round one, then they don't have to spend Money on that spot next offseason. (or re-Draft that 1 Roster spot)

That in turn frees up Money for a Free Agent OT or whatever next offseason.

Same with Hitting on a DT or Corner or Interior O-line etc in round 1.

Hitting fills a spot and Frees up Money that can be used in the next Offseason by not having to fill that spot.

This is why I am more open to Drafting other positions in round 1 besides OT.

I don't mind if they take OT in round 1 but they just Flat out need to get it right.

Just hit Baby !

(04-06-2024, 09:00 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Sure would be a great start. But we might not know if we hit on an OL pick, if Trent Brown stays somewhat healthy.

I think if we Draft Bowers, Murphy, Newton or Mitchell we would see a lot of them no matter who is in front of them to begin with.

Bowers would probably instantly be TE1 and Mitchell could be CB2 instantly.