(01-07-2025, 11:13 AM)CJD Wrote: It's incredibly early, but Kenneth Grant is my early favorite for who will be featured at the top of my mock drafts for the next 4 months a haha.

That is, unless he has a great (or horrible) off season and drifts out of our draft range.

(01-07-2025, 11:59 AM)ochocincos Wrote: I'm more of a Walter Nolen fan, personally, but I want a more proven pass rushing DT.

I know Grant's potential, but I'm concerned some with never having 4.0 or more sacks in a season, especially with the other talent that's on that DL/defense to help draw attention away.

Grant has 6.5 sacks across 41 games (only 3.0 this year) whereas Nolen has 11.5 sacks across 35 games (6.5 of which came this season).

I'd be cool with Grant too, but I like Nolen better.

(01-07-2025, 11:13 AM)CJD Wrote: It's incredibly early, but Kenneth Grant is my early favorite for who will be featured at the top of my mock drafts for the next 4 months a haha.

That is, unless he has a great (or horrible) off season and drifts out of our draft range.

(01-06-2025, 05:29 PM)puddycat Wrote: Like your draft with the exception of Kylie Mills.  Partially because Ivey is a classic tweener who lined up inside on 3rd downs on the amazing Ole Miss DLine ,which would give you 3 interior DL after 2 last year.  Kandra and Mukuba should probably flip rounds.  Mukuba is really good; he's another S/CB hybrid (so is Barron), but he should run in the 4.3s which we need.  Brooks is a very patient runner who is not only willing but a competent chipper and blocker; good enough that I believe he could play fullback if needed.
Sub out Mills for LBs Higgins, Mondon or other depth need.

(01-07-2025, 11:59 AM)ochocincos Wrote: I'm more of a Walter Nolen fan, personally, but I want a more proven pass rushing DT.

I know Grant's potential, but I'm concerned some with never having 4.0 or more sacks in a season, especially with the other talent that's on that DL/defense to help draw attention away.

Grant has 6.5 sacks across 41 games (only 3.0 this year) whereas Nolen has 11.5 sacks across 35 games (6.5 of which came this season).

I'd be cool with Grant too, but I like Nolen better.

(01-07-2025, 03:51 PM)CJD Wrote: Yea, Nolen is great too. It's just a different position. NT vs 3T. Whether they prioritize a guy like Nolen or a guy like Grant will depend entirely on how they view the two DTs they drafted this past off season.

Jackson has the size of a NT, but do they think he can hold up in the run game?

Do they think Jenkins can turn into a dominant pass rusher from the DT position (if they didn't, I don't know why they would draft him, but we had that discussion last off season haha).

I think our defense missed Reader's presence immensely in the run game, as safeties spent a lot more time in the box this year (or, at least, they appeared to), so I'm leaning towards Grant.

The good news is that, while Grant wasn't a huge sack artist, he was disruptive in the passing game. He has 22 hurries this season, with the 3 sacks, 1 QB hit and 5 PD. Last season he had 15 hurries, 5 sacks, 3 QB hits and 3 PD. 

Compared to Nolen's last two seasons per PFF:
Grant:
950 snaps
8 sacks (I believe PFF doesn't penalize players for sharing a sack with teammates)
4 QB hits
37 hurries
8 PD

Nolen:
952 snaps
13 sacks
4 QB hits
33 hurries
3 PD

I think Nolen has higher potential as a pass rusher, but he isn't blowing Grant out of the water in terms of production.

(01-07-2025, 04:26 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: As far as pass rush from the NT position goes, those are head turning numbers.

(01-07-2025, 03:51 PM)CJD Wrote: Yea, Nolen is great too. It's just a different position. NT vs 3T. Whether they prioritize a guy like Nolen or a guy like Grant will depend entirely on how they view the two DTs they drafted this past off season.

Jackson has the size of a NT, but do they think he can hold up in the run game?

Do they think Jenkins can turn into a dominant pass rusher from the DT position (if they didn't, I don't know why they would draft him, but we had that discussion last off season haha).

I think our defense missed Reader's presence immensely in the run game, as safeties spent a lot more time in the box this year (or, at least, they appeared to), so I'm leaning towards Grant.

The good news is that, while Grant wasn't a huge sack artist, he was disruptive in the passing game. He has 22 hurries this season, with the 3 sacks, 1 QB hit and 5 PD. Last season he had 15 hurries, 5 sacks, 3 QB hits and 3 PD. 

Compared to Nolen's last two seasons per PFF:
Grant:
950 snaps
8 sacks (I believe PFF doesn't penalize players for sharing a sack with teammates)
4 QB hits
37 hurries
8 PD

Nolen:
952 snaps
13 sacks
4 QB hits
33 hurries
3 PD

I think Nolen has higher potential as a pass rusher, but he isn't blowing Grant out of the water in terms of production.

(01-07-2025, 09:17 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Meh, I'm of the camp you don't draft a NT in 1st round unless you run a 3-4.
While they can demand double teams, they don't typically quite get there for sack production.
Pressures are ok, but a pressure vs a sack can sometimes really impact a game because they got the throw off and 1st down/TD.

(01-07-2025, 09:20 PM)pulses Wrote: BUT he could help make us a top 5-10 team against the run which is gonna also help others get to the QB. It goes both ways.

(01-07-2025, 09:24 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Maybe, but are the Bengals going to focus a whole bunch on run stopping, or are they going to try to improve the pass rush?
Very, very rarely can you get someone who can do both.

(01-07-2025, 09:49 PM)pulses Wrote: You need to do more research on Grant's pass rush winning rates then I suppose.

He's 7th in this class with HUGE upside.

https://nfldraftbuzz.com/stats/PRD/DT/1/2025

(Yesterday, 01:08 AM)ochocincos Wrote: You don't need to link NFLDraftBuzz I've read it.

All I'm sayin is Grant got very few sacks in his 3-year college career, and it wasn't like he was on a team where he was the only pass rusher.
In a majority of cases, a player doesn't have lower production in college and explode in the NFL.

And yes, I know and agree there's value in having a guy who can help generate pressure and command double teams.
Very Reader-esque.
With that said, without actually getting home often, I dunno if I'd invest a 1st round pick, at least not over Walter Nolen.
That's just me though.
If you like Grant more than Nolen, that's fair. I just am not currently in that boat.

I will say this though - If Kris Jenkins was always envisioned to take BJ Hill's spot, I could see Jenkins as the starting UT and a guy like Grant as starting NT with Jackson in the Tupou 2-down run stuffer backup NT role.

(01-07-2025, 03:51 PM)CJD Wrote: Yea, Nolen is great too. It's just a different position. NT vs 3T. Whether they prioritize a guy like Nolen or a guy like Grant will depend entirely on how they view the two DTs they drafted this past off season.

Jackson has the size of a NT, but do they think he can hold up in the run game?

Do they think Jenkins can turn into a dominant pass rusher from the DT position (if they didn't, I don't know why they would draft him, but we had that discussion last off season haha).

I think our defense missed Reader's presence immensely in the run game, as safeties spent a lot more time in the box this year (or, at least, they appeared to), so I'm leaning towards Grant.

The good news is that, while Grant wasn't a huge sack artist, he was disruptive in the passing game. He has 22 hurries this season, with the 3 sacks, 1 QB hit and 5 PD. Last season he had 15 hurries, 5 sacks, 3 QB hits and 3 PD. 

Compared to Nolen's last two seasons per PFF:
Grant:
950 snaps
8 sacks (I believe PFF doesn't penalize players for sharing a sack with teammates)
4 QB hits
37 hurries
8 PD

Nolen:
952 snaps
13 sacks
4 QB hits
33 hurries
3 PD

I think Nolen has higher potential as a pass rusher, but he isn't blowing Grant out of the water in terms of production.