(04-11-2025, 10:48 AM)Speedy Thomas Wrote: *snip for space savings*

(04-11-2025, 10:48 AM)Speedy Thomas Wrote: This morning Dehner integrates Bengals draft trends with info in The Beast and offers a short list of likely outcomes.  First he lists traits that the Bengals historically value:

    *team captain
    *played through injury, loves practice, loyal teammate
    *big programs with big performances in the biggest games
    *elite athletic traits in top 2 rounds
    *massive OT's, pass protectors, & gap scheme maulers -- size, power, & protection up front
    *resistance to early TE, RB, LB
    *one of 30 private visits

Round 1

    *Nick Emmanwori (17 overall) -- team captain, elite tester, SEC, private visit, one missed game in 3 years; only ding is not playing in college football playoff
           "versatility and rare athleticism running a 4.38 at 6-3 220 opens up myriad options for reformatting the defense"

    *Tyler Booker (24 overall) -- SEC, college football playoff, massive OL, captain, played through injury; only ding is doesn't check the lite athlete box
          "raw power, tenacity, scheme fit and immovable anchor could offset elite athletic miss"

Day 2

    *Jonah Savaiinaea, G, Arizona (55 overall) -- massive OL, played through injury, private visit, competitiveness, elite athletic traits
         "size, position flexibility, competitiveness, and personality"

    *JT Tuimoloau, edge, The Ohio State (43 overall) -- big school, big games, elite testing, played through injury, competitiveness
         "saw the most double teams & chips on a great D-line; played big in biggest games"

    *Ozzy Trapilo, OT, Boston College (79 overall) -- big OL, pass pro strength, elite testing, captain
         "NFL bloodlines; zero penalties in 772 snaps last season"

Day 3

    *Demetrius Knight, LB, South Carolina (LB6) -- captain, SEC, competitiveness, elite athletic traits, played through injury
         "showed up for one year at USC and elected captain; weight room addict; plays in style of Pratt"

    *Ty Robinson, DT, Nebraska (DT 12) -- leader, private visit, big program, played through injury, elite testing
         "reputation for extreme toughness; 12.5 TFL, 7 sacks; team-first attitude; coach absolutely loves him"

    *Kyle Monangia, RB, Rutgers (RB 20) -- team captain, production, played through injury
         "work ethic, likability; willing blocker, zero career fumbles in 707 touches; complementary skill set to Chase Brown"

(04-11-2025, 12:06 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I agree with Whatever that Booker doesn't really make sense, haven't met with him and he isn't athletic. Emmanwori, Savaiianeae and Ty
Robinson make sense though IMO. Thanks for this Speedy.

(04-11-2025, 01:47 PM)Speedy Thomas Wrote: You're welcome.  I realize that The Athletic has a paywall.  My daughter gifts it to me.  Really great stuff if you can afford it or have a daughter like mine.  Anyway, I'm happy to share.

While I realize that Andre is the only lineman Bengals have taken with a low RAS, he was pretty good, and Dehner qualifies his analysis by saying that Booker's other qualities might overcome low athleticism.  He does skip over the fact that the Bengals haven't met with Booker.  But I think that not signing a vet OG yet very much leaves open the possibility of a guard in the first.  A lot will depend on what Peters is looking for.  

I can absolutely get behind the character profiles of these guys.  The only time they have deviated from that model in the past several years has been Burton.  Hope that's enough to teach them a lesson.  Character is talent.

(04-11-2025, 02:07 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Uhh...when you mean low, do you mean in the red?
Because Volson's was not good (6.04).
Jonah Williams had a 5.44.
And then you got guys like Billy Price who don't have RAS because they didn't test.
Andre had 4.02, which really isn't too far off from being considered "ok".

But then you look at FAs they brought in.
Cappa - 4.11
Karras - 4.93
OBJ - 0.70
Cordy Glenn - 5.37

Bengals haven't primarily gone for uber-athletic OL.

(04-11-2025, 05:13 PM)Whatever Wrote: Eh, FA's and Day 3 picks are a lot different than premium picks.  Our 1st and 2nd round OL drafted this century and their RAS is...

Levi Jones 9.21
Eric Steinbach 10.0
Andre Smith 4.02
Cedric Ogbuehi didn't test
Jake Fisher 9.72
Andrew Whitworth 9.11
Kevin Zeitler 7.66
Billy Price didn't test
Jonah Williams 5.44
Jackson Carman didn't test
Amarius Mims 9.59

So, the average of the guys who actually tested was 8.09.  

Beyond that, in Booker's case, you have a guy at a position the club rarely drafts early, that doesn't possess the elite athletic traits the club typically looks for in a 1st round pick, and that the club hasn't visited with.  I have no idea where Dehner thinks he's a likelihood at 17.

(04-11-2025, 08:54 PM)Speedy Thomas Wrote: Honestly don't get the hate for Booker.  I believe that the first priority should be improving the O-line.  Yes I am well aware that our defense sucked.  But if you protect Burrow you've always got a chance.  He goes down, forget it.  You just gave the guy 1/4 billion.  I'm tired of bringing in free agents past their prime and tasking them with protecting the franchise.

But about Booker.  Despite his "lack of athleticism" the guy was a beast in the SEC.  Would you rather have Jake Fisher with his 9.72 RAS?

I'm not pounding the table for Booker, just saying that it's foolish to rule him out.  I see Simmons was in today.  I could go for that.  Or Zabel.  Or the kid from Arizona in the second.  Just quit throwing bandaids at the OL.

(04-11-2025, 09:34 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: If you want to see Joe getting those critical short yardage plays via the QB sneak, Booker is definitely the man. Being able to wall up against large DTs in the AFCN is another feather in his cap. I see nothing wrong with taking Booker. I just think that Emmanwori would make a greater overall impact on the defense at that selection.

(04-11-2025, 05:13 PM)Whatever Wrote: Eh, FA's and Day 3 picks are a lot different than premium picks.  Our 1st and 2nd round OL drafted this century and their RAS is...

Levi Jones 9.21
Eric Steinbach 10.0
Andre Smith 4.02
Cedric Ogbuehi didn't test
Jake Fisher 9.72
Andrew Whitworth 9.11
Kevin Zeitler 7.66
Billy Price didn't test
Jonah Williams 5.44
Jackson Carman didn't test
Amarius Mims 9.59

(04-12-2025, 02:14 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: With the exception of Fisher, it looks like all the guys with a RAS score above 9 have been pretty good picks.  That would seem to indicate to me if the Bengals had a 2nd round offensive lineman target with a RAS score above 9, they would more likely hit on that draft pick given their success with previous picks.  Of course nothing is certain so you never know but they have done well when picking guys with high RAS scores.

(04-11-2025, 10:48 AM)Speedy Thomas Wrote: This morning Dehner integrates Bengals draft trends with info in The Beast and offers a short list of likely outcomes.  First he lists traits that the Bengals historically value:

    *team captain
    *played through injury, loves practice, loyal teammate
    *big programs with big performances in the biggest games
    *elite athletic traits in top 2 rounds
    *massive OT's, pass protectors, & gap scheme maulers -- size, power, & protection up front
    *resistance to early TE, RB, LB
    *one of 30 private visits

Round 1

    *Nick Emmanwori (17 overall) -- team captain, elite tester, SEC, private visit, one missed game in 3 years; only ding is not playing in college football playoff
           "versatility and rare athleticism running a 4.38 at 6-3 220 opens up myriad options for reformatting the defense"

    *Tyler Booker (24 overall) -- SEC, college football playoff, massive OL, captain, played through injury; only ding is doesn't check the lite athlete box
          "raw power, tenacity, scheme fit and immovable anchor could offset elite athletic miss"

Day 2

    *Jonah Savaiinaea, G, Arizona (55 overall) -- massive OL, played through injury, private visit, competitiveness, elite athletic traits
         "size, position flexibility, competitiveness, and personality"

    *JT Tuimoloau, edge, The Ohio State (43 overall) -- big school, big games, elite testing, played through injury, competitiveness
         "saw the most double teams & chips on a great D-line; played big in biggest games"

    *Ozzy Trapilo, OT, Boston College (79 overall) -- big OL, pass pro strength, elite testing, captain
         "NFL bloodlines; zero penalties in 772 snaps last season"

Day 3

    *Demetrius Knight, LB, South Carolina (LB6) -- captain, SEC, competitiveness, elite athletic traits, played through injury
         "showed up for one year at USC and elected captain; weight room addict; plays in style of Pratt"

    *Ty Robinson, DT, Nebraska (DT 12) -- leader, private visit, big program, played through injury, elite testing
         "reputation for extreme toughness; 12.5 TFL, 7 sacks; team-first attitude; coach absolutely loves him"

    *Kyle Monangia, RB, Rutgers (RB 20) -- team captain, production, played through injury
         "work ethic, likability; willing blocker, zero career fumbles in 707 touches; complementary skill set to Chase Brown"

(04-11-2025, 01:47 PM)Speedy Thomas Wrote: You're welcome.  I realize that The Athletic has a paywall.  My daughter gifts it to me.  Really great stuff if you can afford it or have a daughter like mine.  Anyway, I'm happy to share.

While I realize that Andre is the only lineman Bengals have taken with a low RAS, he was pretty good, and Dehner qualifies his analysis by saying that Booker's other qualities might overcome low athleticism.  He does skip over the fact that the Bengals haven't met with Booker.  But I think that not signing a vet OG yet very much leaves open the possibility of a guard in the first.  A lot will depend on what Peters is looking for.  

I can absolutely get behind the character profiles of these guys.  The only time they have deviated from that model in the past several years has been Burton.  Hope that's enough to teach them a lesson.  Character is talent.

(04-11-2025, 02:07 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Uhh...when you mean low, do you mean in the red?
Because Volson's was not good (6.04).
Jonah Williams had a 5.44.
And then you got guys like Billy Price who don't have RAS because they didn't test.
Andre had 4.02, which really isn't too far off from being considered "ok".

But then you look at FAs they brought in.
Cappa - 4.11
Karras - 4.93
OBJ - 0.70
Cordy Glenn - 5.37

Bengals haven't primarily gone for uber-athletic OL.

(04-12-2025, 02:35 PM)bfine32 Wrote: My man Tate Ratledge has a 9.98 RAS. There have been about 1600 interior linemen scored since 1987 and he ranks #4.

Dehner Traits that Ratledge meets:

Team Captian
Loyal Teammate
Big Program
Elite Athlete
Met with
Powerful

Quote:STRENGTHS: 
● Tall with thick, stout frame and massive hands
 ● Latches on in run game and flashes strength in legs and hands to create lanes 
● Has body quickness and control to stretch front-side and execute short pulls 
● Plays with flat back and impressive leverage for his size, helping him reset pass-pro anchor and halt power
● Keeps hands tight in punch to batter and bruise
 ● Rarely fooled by stunts and plays with vision to identify games and blitzes from depth 
● Mean dude — takes it incredibly personally when quarterback gets hit 
● Penalized just three times over past two seasons (two holding flags, one false start) 
● His coaches rave about his practice habits and love for football 
● Very personable; connects well in locker room (NFL scout: "He's a goofball, but the guys over there love him.") 
● Kirby Smart said he's as "special as they come," because of his leadership (95 percent of Georgia's 130 players voted him a 2024 team captain) 

 WEAKNESSES:
 ● Shorter arms stand out when punch timing isn't on point 
● Leaves edges vulnerable when set points are inconsistent 
● Has overzealous moments in run game and finds himself overextended 
● Occasionally drops his eyes into contact 
● Feels most comfortable on right side and doesn't have proven experience across the line (aside from four snaps at left guard, 100 percent of his 2,081 career of f ensive snaps came at right guard) 
● Missed at least one game each of past four seasons: Lisfranc injury to right foot four plays into first career start, which required season-ending surgery; missed one game as sophomore because of shoulder subluxation (Nov. 2022); missed one game as junior because of bone bruise to left knee (Nov. 2023); left ankle injury (Sept. 2024) as senior and required tightrope surgery, which sidelined him four games.

SUMMARY: A four-year starter at Georgia, Ratledge established himself at right guard in of f ensive coordinator Mike Bobo's multiple-run scheme (zone and gap). Despite missing 20 games with injuries over the past four years, he became an All-American and All-SEC first-teamer the past two seasons and an unquestioned leader in the program. 

 NFL teams are searching for guards who can move defenders with their lower bodies and control them with their upper halves, and Ratledge did both consistently on his college tape, bullying defenders out of gaps to create running lanes. In pass protection, he has the smarts and anchor to maintain the integrity of the pocket, although he needs to improve his punch timing to stay centered versus pass-rush quickness. Overall, Ratledge is a self-described "dirtbag" with the contact power, competitive edge and functional movement skills to match up against NFL defensive linemen. He should compete for a starting role as a rookie and has the necessary tools for a decade-long pro career, if he stays healthy. 

 GRADE: 2nd round (No. 53 overall)

(04-11-2025, 10:48 AM)Speedy Thomas Wrote: This morning Dehner integrates Bengals draft trends with info in The Beast and offers a short list of likely outcomes.  First he lists traits that the Bengals historically value:

    *team captain
    *played through injury, loves practice, loyal teammate
    *big programs with big performances in the biggest games
    *elite athletic traits in top 2 rounds
    *massive OT's, pass protectors, & gap scheme maulers -- size, power, & protection up front
    *resistance to early TE, RB, LB
    *one of 30 private visits

Round 1

    *Nick Emmanwori (17 overall) -- team captain, elite tester, SEC, private visit, one missed game in 3 years; only ding is not playing in college football playoff
           "versatility and rare athleticism running a 4.38 at 6-3 220 opens up myriad options for reformatting the defense"

    *Tyler Booker (24 overall) -- SEC, college football playoff, massive OL, captain, played through injury; only ding is doesn't check the lite athlete box
          "raw power, tenacity, scheme fit and immovable anchor could offset elite athletic miss"

Day 2

    *Jonah Savaiinaea, G, Arizona (55 overall) -- massive OL, played through injury, private visit, competitiveness, elite athletic traits
         "size, position flexibility, competitiveness, and personality"

    *JT Tuimoloau, edge, The Ohio State (43 overall) -- big school, big games, elite testing, played through injury, competitiveness
         "saw the most double teams & chips on a great D-line; played big in biggest games"

    *Ozzy Trapilo, OT, Boston College (79 overall) -- big OL, pass pro strength, elite testing, captain
         "NFL bloodlines; zero penalties in 772 snaps last season"

Day 3

    *Demetrius Knight, LB, South Carolina (LB6) -- captain, SEC, competitiveness, elite athletic traits, played through injury
         "showed up for one year at USC and elected captain; weight room addict; plays in style of Pratt"

    *Ty Robinson, DT, Nebraska (DT 12) -- leader, private visit, big program, played through injury, elite testing
         "reputation for extreme toughness; 12.5 TFL, 7 sacks; team-first attitude; coach absolutely loves him"

    *Kyle Monangia, RB, Rutgers (RB 20) -- team captain, production, played through injury
         "work ethic, likability; willing blocker, zero career fumbles in 707 touches; complementary skill set to Chase Brown"