+- Cincinnati Bengals Message Board / Forums - Home of Jungle Noise (https://thebengalsboard.com)
+-- Forum: Cincinnati Bengals / NFL (https://thebengalsboard.com/forum-3.html)
+--- Forum: JUNGLE NOISE (https://thebengalsboard.com/forum-2.html)
+--- Thread: Perspective (/thread-4504.html)
Perspective - Stonyhands - 01-10-2016
As bad as this ending was and given our playoff win drought, IMO this still isn't as bad as throwing an INT on the goal line in the Super Bowl. I'd rather lose in the wildcard round than lose on the dumbest playcall in football history.
Not to mention if Mike Brown does the right thing and fires Marvin while bringing in a savvy experienced former head coach who can reign in this team it will all be worth it.
Plus prior to this game Marvin Lewis is 0-6 in the playoffs...did anybody really think that all the things he's done poorly as a HC was going to all of a sudden disappear for 4 straight Primetime games? Sure Hill fumbled but there's something about this team that just screams undisciplined football. Only Marvin Lewis and company can feature a RB that previously was known for not coughing up the ball (Green-Ellis) and turn him into a fumble machine. Going into this game it's widely known Hill has issues with fumbling. Yet the way he carried that ball, if anything was said to Hill it was more along the lines of whatever you do get us that 1st down instead of hold onto the ball with both hands.
RE: Perspective - McC - 01-10-2016
Didn't even need a first down. Kneel three times and kick a FG. Steelers have no TO's and need a TD to win. Rocket science? I think not.
RE: Perspective - Stonyhands - 01-10-2016
(01-10-2016, 03:39 PM)McC Wrote: Didn't even need a first down. Kneel three times and kick a FG. Steelers have no TO's and need a TD to win. Rocket science? I think not.
This I agree with but the way he was fighting for yards in that situation I find it difficult to believe somebody didn't tell him to "get us a first down."
I've never seen a run out the clock situation where the offense turned it over so easily. The run up the middle in that situation should have been as safe as a kneel down. Your RB should be the guy on the field with the most ball security. Not only did he not have two arms on it he purposely lunged forward keeping his knees off the ground.
RE: Perspective - fredtoast - 01-10-2016
(01-10-2016, 03:39 PM)McC Wrote: Didn't even need a first down. Kneel three times and kick a FG. Steelers have no TO's and need a TD to win. Rocket science? I think not.
Are you crazy?
That is "playing not to lose".
Real coaches never take their foot off the gas and "play to win".
RE: Perspective - Rhinocero23 - 01-10-2016
(01-10-2016, 04:01 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Are you crazy?
That is "playing not to lose".
Real coaches never take their foot off the gas and "play to win".
Lol...real coaches win the game with the right situational calls and by knowing what personnel to use in such situation. That was a real stupid coaching decision as proven by the real outcome. You are just playing the should've would've could've game. And that is being real naïve.
RE: Perspective - West Union KennyG - 01-10-2016
(01-10-2016, 04:10 PM)Rhinocero23 Wrote: Lol...real coaches win the game with the right situational calls and by knowing what personnel to use in such situation. That was a real stupid coaching decision as proven by the real outcome. You are just playing the should've would've could've game. And that is being real naïve.
Exactly what I would've said.
RE: Perspective - BritishBengal - 01-10-2016
(01-10-2016, 04:10 PM)Rhinocero23 Wrote: Lol...real coaches win the game with the right situational calls and by knowing what personnel to use in such situation. That was a real stupid coaching decision as proven by the real outcome. You are just playing the should've would've could've game. And that is being real naïve.
It was the right decision. People need to realise it.
The truth is that it would have been Gio carrying the ball had he not have been illegally taken out the game. Why on earth would you kneel and leave the Steelers 1:40 on the clock to get a TD when a single 1st down gets the win.
RE: Perspective - BigSeph - 01-10-2016
(01-10-2016, 04:01 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Are you crazy?
That is "playing not to lose".
Real coaches never take their foot off the gas and "play to win".
"Real" coaches wouldn't have kicked a FG when Tomlin did either. Yet the Steelers won.
RE: Perspective - BigSeph - 01-10-2016
(01-10-2016, 04:20 PM)BritishBengal Wrote: It was the right decision. People need to realise it.
The truth is that it would have been Gio carrying the ball had he not have been illegally taken out the game. Why on earth would you kneel and leave the Steelers 1:40 on the clock to get a TD when a single 1st down gets the win.
Because by screwing up and fumbling the ball away, you give the Steelers 3 timeouts and 1:38 to go down and kick a game winning FG.
If you kneel 3x and kick the FG, you give the Steelers 0 timeouts and 1:10 to go down and get the ball into the endzone.
RE: Perspective - Awful Llama - 01-10-2016
(01-10-2016, 04:20 PM)BritishBengal Wrote: It was the right decision. People need to realise it.
The truth is that it would have been Gio carrying the ball had he not have been illegally taken out the game. Why on earth would you kneel and leave the Steelers 1:40 on the clock to get a TD when a single 1st down gets the win.
Thank you. After the pick I turned to my budy and yelled "One first down and it's over!" You go for the kill shot and end the damn game. If you don't get the first down, then you kick the FG.
There's a lot of things over which to fault Marvin in this game, but that call was not one of them.
RE: Perspective - BritishBengal - 01-10-2016
(01-10-2016, 04:23 PM)BigSeph Wrote: Because by screwing up and fumbling the ball away, you give the Steelers 3 timeouts and 1:38 to go down and kick a game winning FG.
If you kneel 3x and kick the FG, you give the Steelers 0 timeouts and 1:10 to go down and get the ball into the endzone.
That's a laughable way of looking at it. You attempt to make the first running. If that isn't successful then you kick the field goal. You don't play not to lose if the option of a win is 10 yards and 3 downs away, never. Why would you approach a situation thinking Hill will fumble. Anything can happen, a field goal isnt a cert. Always play to win and control your own destiny in the most direct way possible. This kneel thing has to stop, it's just silly.
RE: Perspective - BigSeph - 01-10-2016
(01-10-2016, 04:57 PM)BritishBengal Wrote: That's a laughable way of looking at it. You attempt to make the first running. If that isn't successful then you kick the field goal. You don't play not to lose if the option of a win is 10 yards and 3 downs away, never. Why would you approach a situation thinking Hill will fumble. Anything can happen, a field goal isnt a cert. Always play to win and control your own destiny in the most direct way possible. This kneel thing has to stop, it's just silly.
Roethlistberger admitted after the game that he couldn't throw the ball very far downfield. They had to dink and dunk. They needed those timeouts.
What would have been a certainty would be the Steelers burning all 3 of their timeouts if the Bengals kneel on the ball. FG or not.
Strategy and odds and percentages have a place in coaching decisions just as much as "big balls" do.
RE: Perspective - Junglejuice - 01-10-2016
Everyone making excuses.....
Bottom line is that we DID NOT play well enough to win in 3 quarters and almost stole the game to only give it away.
No excuses this team could not stay composed and could not handle the situation.
Choke job extreme.
RE: Perspective - fredtoast - 01-10-2016
(01-10-2016, 04:10 PM)Rhinocero23 Wrote: That was a real stupid coaching decision as proven by the real outcome.
You can't always judge the decision by the outcome. I have seen bad decisions workout alright, and I have seen good decisions fail. You are just too used to judging every coaching decision with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight.
And that is the main point of my post. Many people hear cry constantly about Marvin being too conservative and "playing no to lose". If he had kneeled three times and missed the FG then people like you would have killed him for that also.
RE: Perspective - BigSeph - 01-10-2016
(01-10-2016, 05:06 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You can't always judge the decision by the outcome. I have seen bad decisions workout alright, and I have seen good decisions fail. You are just too used to judging every coaching decision with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight.
And that is the main point of my post. Many people hear cry constantly about Marvin being too conservative and "playing no to lose". If he had kneeled three times and missed the FG then people like you would have killed him for that also.
This is a valid point, Marvin probably would have been criticized for not running the ball 3x. In hindsight everyone would have said "Hill wouldn't have fumbled there."
But it's objectively true to claim that Pittsburgh's odds of victory would have been a lot worse if they were down 4, had 0 timeouts and had to drive 80 yards downfield and score a TD with a gimpy-armed QB in 1:30.
RE: Perspective - bengalguy71 - 01-10-2016
(01-10-2016, 04:34 PM)Awful Llama Wrote: .... After the pick I turned to my budy and yelled "One first down and it's over!" ....
I turned to my wife and son and said, "The Bengals will find a way to screw even this up!"
RE: Perspective - fredtoast - 01-10-2016
(01-10-2016, 05:01 PM)BigSeph Wrote: Strategy and odds and percentages have a place in coaching decisions just as much as "big balls" do.
That is what I try to tell people everytime a thread pops up about how Marvin should "never take his foot off the gas".
Pretty much the only time I have ever seen a coach kneel three straight times is when he can run the clock out completely or has a chance for a FG that makes it a 2 score game. So I am guessing that every otyher coach in the league tries to get a first down in that situation.
RE: Perspective - Rhinocero23 - 01-10-2016
(01-10-2016, 05:06 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You can't always judge the decision by the outcome. I have seen bad decisions workout alright, and I have seen good decisions fail. You are just too used to judging every coaching decision with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight.
And that is the main point of my post. Many people hear cry constantly about Marvin being too conservative and "playing no to lose". If he had kneeled three times and missed the FG then people like you would have killed him for that also.
I can't disagree with your last statement. That 20/20 stuff does make things a bit clearer. However I still feel (and did at the time) to take a knee 3x's was the way to win the game. Could the FG been missed yes....but you still have the lead and they are out of TO's. I like those odds better.
RE: Perspective - gobobro - 01-10-2016
Not taking a knee is the wrong thing to get angry about. Not running the ball secured by both hands when it's raining, you have fumbled this year, and you know the Steelers will be desperately trying to strip the ball... That is what you should be mad about. There are 32 head coaches in the league who would say taking a knee in that situation is a bad move.
RE: Perspective - McC - 01-10-2016
(01-10-2016, 04:01 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Are you crazy?
That is "playing not to lose".
Real coaches never take their foot off the gas and "play to win".
No. Real coaches know when to do what. Real coaches don't give the ball to a fumbler in what was the moment of all moments for the last 25 years.