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+--- Thread: 5 Players That Could Follow Hue to Cleveland (/thread-5059.html)
5 Players That Could Follow Hue to Cleveland - BFritz21 - 02-03-2016
CincyJungle lists five players that could follow Hue Jackson to Cleveland.
Quote:AJ McCarron
This one seems so obvious that it's probably not going to happen. Predicting personnel moves in the NFL is, quite simply, never this easy. But, if you think about it, depending what's given on the other side of the trade, a good enough deal like this could be a win-win for both franchises. Obviously, the Bengals would never want to make a trade that improves one of their division rivals, but McCarron's value and current position make him a prime target to be traded.
Remember what happened when guys like Matt Cassel, Kevin Kolb, and Matt Flynn filled in for a starting quarterback? They played well enough to catch the eye of teams across the league and they all cashed out on teams that were desperate for a decent quarterback to stabilize their struggling position. McCarron could command the same kind of value, but still has two years left on his rookie contract and has proven himself to be extremely valuable to the team as a backup quarterback. Therefore, it would probably take at least a second round pick and potentially a starting player to rip him away from the Bengals (much like when the Patriots traded Cassel to the Chiefs).
If Jackson is willing to take the kind of risk he took with Palmer, the Browns could be willing to offer the Bengals a trade they can't refuse. Bengals fans likely don't want to see McCarron in a Browns uniform, but they'd probably enjoy an early draft pick or two for a player who wasn't likely to see a whole lot of action going forward with the Bengals.
After McCarron just took Hue to the playoffs and was a fumble and a bogus penalty away from winning our first playoff game in 25 years, you have to think that he'd give up a lot and feel comfortable with AJ running his team on offense.
The Browns also have the second and thirty-second picks in the draft, and I doubt they'd give up the second pick, but the thirty-second seems like a definite possibility.
Dalton's injury may turn out to have been at a perfect time because he proved that he's good enough to take us to the next level (you can argue he still needs to do it in the playoffs, but he was on another level this season), so we wouldn't need AJ, but AJ proved that he's good enough to be a winner in the NFL.
If we can get them to pull the trigger, I think it's a definite must to make the trade.
Quote:Marvin Jones
Marvin Jones will be an unrestricted free agent as soon as his contract with the Bengals runs out and free agency begins on March 9, 2016. Whether the Bengals like it or not, they're probably going to have to pay Jones a hefty sum of money for him to stick around. Don't forget that Andrew Hawkins was offered $13.6 million in 2014 to join the Browns, and Hawkins didn't have the same kind of production as Jones.
Hawkins' best season with the Bengals came in 2012 when he recorded 51 catches for 533 yards and four touchdowns. If that was enough to warrant the kind of money he got from the Browns, imagine what they'd pay for a receiver who put up 65 receptions for 816 yards and four touchdowns in 2015 and also has a strong relationship with the head coach already. The Bengals could very well elect to pay Jones the salary that he is going to demand elsewhere, but there is also a good chance that doing so will see Mohamed Sanu take Jones's place on this list.
I'd be happy if Sanu took Jones place on this list, and Jones is valuable, so I think that we need to give him a good chunk of money because teams won't see/care that a big reason he was so productive was because he had AJ on the other side. Marvin was a hell of a #2, though, so I hope that we can keep him.
Quote:Andre SmithPretty sure that we're done with the headache that is/was Andre Smith. It's a shame because I always liked him, but it might be time to move on, especially since we have two young tackles waiting in the wings.
With the Bengals taking two offensive tackles with their first two picks in last year's draft, it would be fairly surprising if Andre Smith returned to the team in 2016. Not only is he a free agent this season, but his inconsistent and sloppy play over the years suggest that the Bengals will not be willing to pay him what he is worth on the open market.
But, Smith's former offensive coordinator might want to bring a familiar face to his new team to build up one of the NFL's most under-appreciated positions. The Browns have some great offensive linemen in Joe Thomas, Alex Mack, and Cameron Erving. With Joel Bitonio coming back from injury, a talented right tackle could be all they need to put together one of the most solid offensive lines in the NFL. It's also worth noting that Alex Mack could opt out of his contract this year, which will be worth keeping an eye on as the offseason progresses.
Quote:Reggie NelsonI think, with his age, it's time to move on. We have Iloka and Wiliams in waiting, plus I think Derron Smith could be a sleeper ball hawk, not to mention that Josh Shaw could probably play safety, and we could also use a draft pick on one.
Reggie Nelson had a great season in 2015, but due to his age and the number of Bengals players due to be unrestricted free agents in March, there's a chance that he could end up being one of the high-profile cap casualties for the Bengals this season. Jackson is an offensive guy, so he's likely going to want to build his defense with guys that he's familiar with. Nelson led the NFL in interceptions last year (8), so him hitting free agency would be like winning the easiest lottery ever for Jackson.
Quote:Brandon Tate
Does anyone think Brandon Tate will return to the Bengals this season? Each season there is talk of the Bengals moving on from him, but they never do. However, this year is different. Like so many other players, Tate is about to become an unrestricted free agent in March. He's juggled both wide receiver and kick returner duties for the Bengals since arriving in 2011 but hasn't exactly rewritten record books during his time. Still, he's provided a consistent and reliable factor for the team during some potentially volatile years. Someone like that who can fill multiple roles is exactly the kind of player the Browns need right now. You can probably go ahead and make your bets now that he will end up in Cleveland should the Bengals decide to (finally) move on.
Dear God, please let him be gone.
RE: 5 Players That Could Follow Hue to Cleveland - Go Cards - 02-03-2016
Fine with all happening except losing Marvin Jones. Hope to keep him if possible to do without monetarily killing our cap.
Smith and Tate can go on their merry way for all I care.
Nelson would like to still keep but he is aging so would not want to go deep on money for anything long term. 2 year deal, yes.
McCarron would love to keep as back up. But would not turn down a good trade offer that Hue may potentially offer. 2nd rounder or better and he is shipping out if it was my call.
RE: 5 Players That Could Follow Hue to Cleveland - Thundercloud - 02-03-2016
We really will make a strong effort to keep Marvin Jones, in my opinion. McCarron has good value to us as a now proven backup, and I don't think anyone will give us a second round pick for him and probably not a third. I don't think we'll make a trade there.
I like Sanu and hope we can keep him, too, but if only one can stay, I'd pick Jones. I agree that Andre and Tate are probably done here. Too bad about Andre. He had the tools to really be outstanding, and he was sometimes. However, I just don't think he had the mind set, the drive, to be as good as he could have been.
I think Reggie Nelson has really been an asset to the team. I understand the pressures of allocating your salary structure in the most effective way, but I wouldn't give up on Reggie too fast. The price tag here might not be too bad, based on his age.
I do feel good about our process on this stuff anymore. I know Duke Tobin and Katie are right in the middle of this stuff and I think that we'll do a nice job. Katie is said to be as good as it gets on understanding how to work the cap, and we can see what Tobin has done to improve our personnel operation. Also, I'm not Marvin's biggest fan, but I think he's been pretty good on player evaluation.
RE: 5 Players That Could Follow Hue to Cleveland - SHRacerX - 02-03-2016
I want Marvin Jones back, but not at a ridiculous salary. This is why I was clamoring last year about drafting a WR (and not in the 7th round). Regardless, Andre Smith and Reggie Nelson could become fairly high compensatory picks...which just became "tradeable"....I doubt Brandon Tate would translate to anything, but that compensatory pick calculation is a bit odd, so maybe another body that leaves isn't a bad thing. Even though he played fairly well last year, I STILL hold my breath when he carries the ball.
AJ McCarron won't be traded unless they get something ridiculous like a first rounder, and that isn't going to happen. The Bengals need depth at the QB position and he proved he can win in the league with minimal previous experience.
This upcoming draft will be need to address some key positions, with a few positions needing immediate contribution: WR and LB. Unfortunately, those aforementioned compensatory picks would not arrive until the 2017 draft.
RE: 5 Players That Could Follow Hue to Cleveland - OrlandoBengal - 02-03-2016
They would have to trade McCarron, and I personally do not see that happening. They have him for the next two years, each year at well under $1 million. Dalton has proven to be durable, but that tackle showed us that he is always one play away from missing time. Having a competent backup, especially one with a low salary, is a real luxury.
RE: 5 Players That Could Follow Hue to Cleveland - WeezyBengal - 02-03-2016
(02-03-2016, 09:52 AM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: They would have to trade McCarron, and I personally do not see that happening. They have him for the next two years, each year at well under $1 million. Dalton has proven to be durable, but that tackle showed us that he is always one play away from missing time. Having a competent backup, especially one with a low salary, is a real luxury.
Couldnt agree more with this. Quality QBs are at a premium in the NFL. It would be dumb to trade McCarron.
RE: 5 Players That Could Follow Hue to Cleveland - jj22 - 02-03-2016
I'd be all for trading McCarron. Jones is as good as gone as he's at the top of the list for Cleveland, Patriots, Dolphins, and Lions. We are also likely to lose both starting safeties. Reports came out last week that the Dolphins will make a strong run at Adam Jones. We need all the draft picks we can get to replace some big pieces we will have to replace this offseason.
http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/3127/pacman-jones
http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/7503/marvin-jones
It's a weak wideout class this offseason. We aren't going to be able to compete, win a bidding war (we never are able to anyway) with other teams when it comes to our big free agents. We aren't going to break the bank on Jones, who is the top wideout free agent. 2016 quietly is a rebuilding year (obvious if you look at the turnover in coaching staff, and number of free agents we will lose) with a lame duck HC, and when you rebuild you go for as many draft picks as you can get.
RE: 5 Players That Could Follow Hue to Cleveland - gobobro - 02-03-2016
(02-03-2016, 11:13 AM)jj22 Wrote: I'd be all for trading McCarron. Jones is as good as gone as he's at the top of the list for Cleveland, Patriots, Dolphins, and Lions. We are also likely to lose both starting safeties. Reports came out last week that the Dolphins will make a strong run at Adam Jones. We need all the draft picks we can get to replace some big pieces we will have to replace this offseason.
http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/3127/pacman-jones
http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/7503/marvin-jones
It's a weak wideout class this offseason. We aren't going to be able to compete, win a bidding war (we never are able to anyway) with other teams when it comes to our big free agents. We aren't going to break the bank on Jones, who is the top wideout free agent. 2016 quietly is a rebuilding year (obvious if you look at the turnover in coaching staff, and number of free agents we will lose) with a lame duck HC, and when you rebuild you go for as many draft picks as you can get.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't we have more cap space than all of those teams? And how hard can Miami go after anyone? Suh's contract means they can't throw money at anyone... I'm not convinced we lose either safety, let alone both of them.
RE: 5 Players That Could Follow Hue to Cleveland - fredtoast - 02-03-2016
(02-03-2016, 11:13 AM)jj22 Wrote: We aren't going to be able to compete, win a bidding war (we never are able to anyway) with other teams when it comes to our big free agents.
Actually we have a long history of paying top dollar to keep our best players
RE: 5 Players That Could Follow Hue to Cleveland - jj22 - 02-03-2016
Not when they hit free agency Fred. Signing them before their contract is up yes, winning bidding wars, no.
RE: 5 Players That Could Follow Hue to Cleveland - jj22 - 02-03-2016
(02-03-2016, 11:26 AM)gobobro Wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't we have more cap space than all of those teams? And how hard can Miami go after anyone? Suh's contract means they can't throw money at anyone... I'm not convinced we lose either safety, let alone both of them.
Hobs said that Gio and Eifert are candidates for extensions this offseason. I think the front office knows it's unlikely they'll be able to keep a lot of our top free agents. Our cap space may be used to resign some of our other players not up yet up. And of course you know funny math drill they'll feed us. So we have 30 million in cap room, but Hobs will soon tell us 10m will role over for future contracts, 5 million will go to rookies, 6 million will go to injury backup. We probably only will have enough to make a run at Hall and Sanu.
RE: 5 Players That Could Follow Hue to Cleveland - XenoMorph - 02-03-2016
Hope hue fails and is out of cleveland in 2 years. Same to all the players that follow him
RE: 5 Players That Could Follow Hue to Cleveland - McC - 02-03-2016
I'm not so sure Bengals will be lining up to run to Cleveland. Anything is possible, I guess but I'll believe it when I see it.
If Hue wants to pay out the ass for AJM, I'd be all for it. But he will have to pay big and I'm not so sure he'd be willing to go down that road again. We hold all the cards on that one.
RE: 5 Players That Could Follow Hue to Cleveland - fredtoast - 02-03-2016
(02-03-2016, 11:45 AM)jj22 Wrote: Not when they hit free agency Fred. Signing them before their contract is up yes, winning bidding wars, no.
If we don't re-sign them then we usually don't want them back that badly. That is the way it works with EVERY team. Once a player hits the open market the odds are overwhelming that he will change teams.
But how often have we lost a top dollar player? Maybe once every five years or so. Michael Johnson, Johnathan Joseph, who else?
RE: 5 Players That Could Follow Hue to Cleveland - Wyche'sWarrior - 02-03-2016
(02-03-2016, 04:51 AM)Thundercloud Wrote: We really will make a strong effort to keep Marvin Jones, in my opinion. McCarron has good value to us as a now proven backup, and I don't think anyone will give us a second round pick for him and probably not a third. I don't think we'll make a trade there.
I like Sanu and hope we can keep him, too, but if only one can stay, I'd pick Jones. I agree that Andre and Tate are probably done here. Too bad about Andre. He had the tools to really be outstanding, and he was sometimes. However, I just don't think he had the mind set, the drive, to be as good as he could have been.
I think Reggie Nelson has really been an asset to the team. I understand the pressures of allocating your salary structure in the most effective way, but I wouldn't give up on Reggie too fast. The price tag here might not be too bad, based on his age.
I do feel good about our process on this stuff anymore. I know Duke Tobin and Katie are right in the middle of this stuff and I think that we'll do a nice job. Katie is said to be as good as it gets on understanding how to work the cap, and we can see what Tobin has done to improve our personnel operation. Also, I'm not Marvin's biggest fan, but I think he's been pretty good on player evaluation.
Agreed....and money comes off the cap with Smith and Sanu gone as well. What about Leon Hall? I can't remember the length of his deal, is he out too?
(02-03-2016, 09:52 AM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: They would have to trade McCarron, and I personally do not see that happening. They have him for the next two years, each year at well under $1 million. Dalton has proven to be durable, but that tackle showed us that he is always one play away from missing time. Having a competent backup, especially one with a low salary, is a real luxury.
Exactly. Unless it's a ridiculously one sided deal in our favor, no way I let AJ leave town.
RE: 5 Players That Could Follow Hue to Cleveland - OrlandoBengal - 02-03-2016
(02-03-2016, 11:47 AM)jj22 Wrote: Hobs said that Gio and Eifert are candidates for extensions this offseason. I think the front office knows it's unlikely they'll be able to keep a lot of our top free agents. Our cap space may be used to resign some of our other players not up yet up. And of course you know funny math drill they'll feed us. So we have 30 million, in cap room, but Hobs will soon tell us 10m will role over for future contracts, 5 million will go to rookies, 6 million will go to injury backup. We probably only will have enough to make a push for Hall and Sanu.
Ahh yes, the annual installment of "Math by Hobson"...
RE: 5 Players That Could Follow Hue to Cleveland - OrlandoBengal - 02-03-2016
(02-03-2016, 12:41 PM)Wyche Wrote: Agreed....and money comes off the cap with Smith and Sanu gone as well. What about Leon Hall? I can't remember the length of his deal, is he out too?
Hall and Smith are $15 million coming off the books just between those two.
RE: 5 Players That Could Follow Hue to Cleveland - Wyche'sWarrior - 02-03-2016
(02-03-2016, 12:43 PM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: Hall and Smith are $15 million coming off the books just between those two.
I thought Hall was up.....that's a nice chunk o' change right there....
RE: 5 Players That Could Follow Hue to Cleveland - jj22 - 02-03-2016
(02-03-2016, 12:36 PM)fredtoast Wrote: If we don't re-sign them then we usually don't want them back that badly. That is the way it works with EVERY team. Once a player hits the open market the odds are overwhelming that he will change teams.
But how often have we lost a top dollar player? Maybe once every five years or so. Michael Johnson, Johnathan Joseph, who else?
Not a lot. We haven't had a loaded roster like this hit free agency tho.
RE: 5 Players That Could Follow Hue to Cleveland - Nately120 - 02-03-2016
Of course it would depend on what Hue would offer, but I think flipping McCarron from a 164th pick to a 32nd pick (or so) that can contribute NOW would be a great move. It's all speculative, but I think the best chance we have of winning in the next 2 years or so would be with Dalton staying healthy (as he usually does) and making use of a high-pick player that we get in exchange for AJ McCarron.
That seems more likely to me than AJ having to fill in for Dalton again and notching significant wins in his absence. Ideally, we got our use out of AJ so now we flip him for a higher pick, get a contributor for a QB who (in best cases) spends the entire season on the bench, and Hue and AJ beat the Steelers 2 times a year. AJ is walking in 2 years, so if it honestly comes down to getting a pick for him now or nothing for him in 2 years, I obviously want something NOW NOW NOW.
That's my take, but the Browns will probably go the Wentz/Goff and McCown route so it's moot.