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+--- Thread: What Andy is doing to cut down turnovers. (/thread-583.html)
What Andy is doing to cut down turnovers. - Bengalholic - 06-11-2015
Interceptions have been the bane of Andy Dalton's entire career.
Specifically, it's the inconsistency, borne out of a random spates of picked-off passes, that has the Cincinnati Bengals quarterback viewed as one of the NFL's more untrustworthy players. Faith in his abilities has been hard to come by because few know what to expect from him week to week.
He wants that to change this year.
Dalton's promise this offseason: to be a more reliable passer.
"Obviously you don't want to turn the ball over. You can't turn the ball over if you want to win games," he said. "I understand that and I know I've got to do a better job of that."
Dalton has 99 career touchdowns to 66 interceptions. His 1.5 touchdown-to-interception ratio since 2011 is the 10th-worst among qualifying quarterbacks during that time span. That means 20 quarterbacks, including Jay Cutler, Ryan Tannehill and Robert Griffin III have done a better job across that stretch, percentage-wise, completing touchdowns instead of tossing interceptions.
Perhaps the worst thing about Dalton's interceptions is that he's been picked off three or more times in seven career games. Sure, 12 times he has thrown three or more touchdowns in a game, but therein lies the inconsistency issue.
So what has Dalton been doing during organized team activities to make his turnover issue a problem of the past?
He's working on saying "Uncle."
Read more @ ESPN
RE: What Andy is doing to cut down turnovers. - jj22 - 06-11-2015
I know this might get slammed. But they just need to let Dalton throw. He's a gunslinger (sure he lacks the arm that some like Farve have so he doesn't get away with the turnovers Farve and other's have gotten away with over their careers) and probably is less effective when he's playing scared to death to turn the ball over. Besides we saw last season it didn't really do much for him, and never let him get into a rhythm.
Sure I thought cutting his attempt would help, but it didn't. So they need to move on and let him throw. At least he'll get the yards and td's.
Folks would be surprised at how many "elite" qb's have far surpassed Daltons INT's high of 20 multiple times over their career. But because they are perceived to have strong arms they keep their elite status and get excused. Get called gunslingers etc....
Folks on this board even slam Dalton for his high INT's while claiming some of these other qb's are better even though over their careers they have far surpassed 20 int multiple times. Big Ben, Eli, Cutler..... The list goes on. Many of which has far surpassed Daltons Int high. Many multiple times over their careers.
RE: What Andy is doing to cut down turnovers. - Stormborn - 06-11-2015
This was just like last year at this time.
They need to get him going through progressions and seeing the rest of the field, not giving up the play when target #1 is occupied.
RE: What Andy is doing to cut down turnovers. - GodFather - 06-11-2015
God I can't wait to see the flood of Dalton enthusiast, responding to this post with the classic:
![[Image: dkzu2ap.jpg]](http://www.livememe.com/dkzu2ap.jpg)
RE: What Andy is doing to cut down turnovers. - Nately120 - 06-11-2015
I think I'm done comparing Dalton to "the field" because it's all about 2013 Dalton vs. 2014 Dalton vs. 2015 Dalton.
RE: What Andy is doing to cut down turnovers. - djs7685 - 06-11-2015
(06-11-2015, 12:46 PM)jj22 Wrote: I know this might get slammed. But they just need to let Dalton throw. He's a gunslinger (sure he lacks the arm that some like Farve have so he doesn't get away with the turnovers Farve and other's have gotten away with over their careers) and probably is less effective when he's playing scared to death to turn the ball over. Besides we saw last season it didn't really do much for him, and never let him get into a rhythm.
Sure I thought cutting his attempt would help, but it didn't. So they need to move on and let him throw. At least he'll get the yards and td's.
Folks would be surprised at how many "elite" qb's have far surpassed Daltons INT's high of 20 multiple times over their career. But because they are perceived to have strong arms they keep their elite status and get excused. Get called gunslingers etc....
Folks on this board even slam Dalton for his high INT's while claiming some of these other qb's are better even though over their careers they have far surpassed 20 int multiple times. Big Ben, Eli, Cutler..... The list goes on. Many of which has far surpassed Daltons Int high. Many multiple times over their careers.
I really want to agree with this, but part of me also wants to see weeks 1-6 2014 Andy show up for an entire season too.
He was playing like a less mobile Russell Wilson for the first few weeks last year. He wasn't rolling out and throwing out of the pocket that much, but my comparison to RW comes from his general efficiency while throwing the occasional pass downfield taking a shot. Andy was GREAT early last year, and we were winning games. If the Hill/Bernard combo is the real deal, this could be the key to our offense if Andy plays more like Russell Wilson and less like Brett Favre.
On the other hand, the best course for Andy may be to just let him air it out and hope he can eventually even out those TD/INT numbers ala Rapistberger. Ben is good for his 15 or so INTs every couple of years, but there isn't much to complain about his game otherwise. Andy could get to that point in the future where his INT numbers aren't such a big deal if he can just stop increasing his % every damn season and even it out a bit with some good overall years.
Those are two ways his career could go, and I can definitely see the possibility of success in both of them. I'm very interested to see the direction the coaching staff goes with Andy Dalton in 2015.
RE: What Andy is doing to cut down turnovers. - bfine32 - 06-11-2015
(06-11-2015, 12:46 PM)jj22 Wrote: I know this might get slammed. But they just need to let Dalton throw. He's a gunslinger (sure he lacks the arm that some like Farve have so he doesn't get away with the turnovers Farve and other's have gotten away with over their careers) and probably is less effective when he's playing scared to death to turn the ball over. Besides we saw last season it didn't really do much for him, and never let him get into a rhythm.Using 30 pass attempts as an over/under Andy last year. His passer rating in games he attempted less than 30 passes averaged out to 96.9. His passing attempts in games he attempted over 30 passes averaged out to 70.5. Being "fair" and removing the Cleveland game with the passer rating of 2.0 he still only averaged a 79.7.
Sure I thought cutting his attempt would help, but it didn't. So they need to move on and let him throw. At least he'll get the yards and td's.
Folks would be surprised at how many "elite" qb's have far surpassed Daltons INT's high of 20 multiple times over their career. But because they are perceived to have strong arms they keep their elite status and get excused. Get called gunslingers etc....
Folks on this board even slam Dalton for his high INT's while claiming some of these other qb's are better even though over their careers they have far surpassed 20 int multiple times. Big Ben, Eli, Cutler..... The list goes on. Many of which has far surpassed Daltons Int high. Many multiple times over their careers.
More attempts might not be the answer.
RE: What Andy is doing to cut down turnovers. - jj22 - 06-11-2015
(06-11-2015, 01:52 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Using 30 pass attempts as an over/under Andy last year. His passer rating in games he attempted less than 30 passes averaged out to 96.9. His passing attempts in games he attempted over 30 passes averaged out to 70.5. Being "fair" and removing the Cleveland game with the passer rating of 2.0 he still only averaged a 79.7.
More attempts might not be the answer.
I agree the attempts don't solve all of Daltons issues, and may not even be his issue. I'm just not sold on him being able to succeed (or reach his full abilities) being so concerned about throwing INT's. Especially if we already saw last season that it didn't work.
RE: What Andy is doing to cut down turnovers. - Shake n Blake - 06-11-2015
(06-11-2015, 12:46 PM)jj22 Wrote: I know this might get slammed. But they just need to let Dalton throw. He's a gunslinger (sure he lacks the arm that some like Farve have so he doesn't get away with the turnovers Farve and other's have gotten away with over their careers) and probably is less effective when he's playing scared to death to turn the ball over. Besides we saw last season it didn't really do much for him, and never let him get into a rhythm.
Sure I thought cutting his attempt would help, but it didn't. So they need to move on and let him throw. At least he'll get the yards and td's.
Folks would be surprised at how many "elite" qb's have far surpassed Daltons INT's high of 20 multiple times over their career. But because they are perceived to have strong arms they keep their elite status and get excused. Get called gunslingers etc....
Folks on this board even slam Dalton for his high INT's while claiming some of these other qb's are better even though over their careers they have far surpassed 20 int multiple times. Big Ben, Eli, Cutler..... The list goes on. Many of which has far surpassed Daltons Int high. Many multiple times over their careers.
I think Dalton's ideal amount of attempts would be around what he threw in 2012. He had 528 attempts that year. He was throwing it around some, but it wasn't over the top like 2013. Dalton just isn't good enough to justify close to 600 attempts. The only QB's you see throwing that much are guys like Brees, Brady and Peyton.
Plus we have a great run game now, so I don't want to lean as much on Dalton. A balanced attack like 2012 would be great. Fwiw, Dalton had 31 total TD's that year and only 16 INT's. I'd take that kind of production every year.
RE: What Andy is doing to cut down turnovers. - rfaulk34 - 06-11-2015
(06-11-2015, 12:39 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Interceptions have been the bane of Andy Dalton's entire career.
Specifically, it's the inconsistency, borne out of a random spates of picked-off passes, that has the Cincinnati Bengals quarterback viewed as one of the NFL's more untrustworthy players. Faith in his abilities has been hard to come by because few know what to expect from him week to week.
He wants that to change this year.
Dalton's promise this offseason: to be a more reliable passer.
"Obviously you don't want to turn the ball over. You can't turn the ball over if you want to win games," he said. "I understand that and I know I've got to do a better job of that."
Dalton has 99 career touchdowns to 66 interceptions. His 1.5 touchdown-to-interception ratio since 2011 is the 10th-worst among qualifying quarterbacks during that time span. That means 20 quarterbacks, including Jay Cutler, Ryan Tannehill and Robert Griffin III have done a better job across that stretch, percentage-wise, completing touchdowns instead of tossing interceptions.
Perhaps the worst thing about Dalton's interceptions is that he's been picked off three or more times in seven career games. Sure, 12 times he has thrown three or more touchdowns in a game, but therein lies the inconsistency issue.
So what has Dalton been doing during organized team activities to make his turnover issue a problem of the past?
He's working on saying "Uncle."
Read more @ ESPN
And this is why Dalton's QB Rating stays down. Not because the system is biased.
RE: What Andy is doing to cut down turnovers. - CJD - 06-11-2015
The best way Andy can cut down on turnovers is by handing it Hill and Bernard more often.
100% effective way of not throwing interceptions.
RE: What Andy is doing to cut down turnovers. - rfaulk34 - 06-11-2015
(06-11-2015, 01:52 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Using 30 pass attempts as an over/under Andy last year. His passer rating in games he attempted less than 30 passes averaged out to 96.9. His passing attempts in games he attempted over 30 passes averaged out to 70.5. Being "fair" and removing the Cleveland game with the passer rating of 2.0 he still only averaged a 79.7.
More attempts might not be the answer.
I crunched some numbers and posted them on the mothership that showed, statistically, Dalton's highest rating comes from averaging 30-34 passes a game. All those numbers were pre '14.
RE: What Andy is doing to cut down turnovers. - XenoMorph - 06-11-2015
(06-11-2015, 12:54 PM)Stormborn Wrote: This was just like last year at this time.
They need to get him going through progressions and seeing the rest of the field, not giving up the play when target #1 is occupied.
based on the average time hes holding onto the ball... There isnt much progression to go thru
Gotta like that he knows and owns up to his issue... which is the first step to fixing it.
Trying to make plays when that arent there... Gets a lot of Qbs in trouble.
RE: What Andy is doing to cut down turnovers. - Shake n Blake - 06-11-2015
(06-11-2015, 01:52 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Using 30 pass attempts as an over/under Andy last year. His passer rating in games he attempted less than 30 passes averaged out to 96.9. His passing attempts in games he attempted over 30 passes averaged out to 70.5. Being "fair" and removing the Cleveland game with the passer rating of 2.0 he still only averaged a 79.7.
More attempts might not be the answer.
I think the problem last year was that there were so many injuries at receiver. I know you loathe excuses, but the injuries at receiver were significant last year.
There's been a lot of examples of QB's having bad years with losses at WR/TE over the last few years.
2013 Joe Flacco: lost Boldin to trade, lost Pitta to injury. Posted a career worst 73.1 rating, and was 2nd in NFL with 22 INTs
2014 Joe Flacco: picked up Steve Smith and Owen Daniels in FA. Rebounded with career high's in TD's, yards and had the 2nd best rating of his career
2013 Eli Manning: Injuries caught up to Hakeem Nicks, who was no longer effective as a top target. Eli posted a career worst 69.4 rating and led NFL with 27 INT's
2014 Eli Manning: Odell Beckham was a huge upgrade. Eli had the highest completion % of his career. 3rd best rating, yardage and TD totals of his career.
2013 Tom Brady: Lost Welker to FA, lost Gronk to injury. Amendola was a bust. Brady had his lowest passer rating since 2003, which ranked 17th in the NFL.
2014 Tom Brady: Lafell really filled the void as a #2 WR. Gronk was healthy. Brady ranked 5th in the NFL in passer rating
Normally I hate the injury excuse, because all teams deal with them. But when a single position group is hit that hard it can be tough. We actually picked up Greg Little and gave him a legit shot at PT for pete's sake. Sanu was the #1 WR for several weeks when he technically should've been the #3 WR.
Imagine if Flacco had to play last year with Jacoby Jones as his #1 WR for a few weeks, and Greg Little competing for snaps as his #2.
RE: What Andy is doing to cut down turnovers. - Nate (formerly eliminate08) - 06-11-2015
(06-11-2015, 12:46 PM)jj22 Wrote: I know this might get slammed. But they just need to let Dalton throw. He's a gunslinger (sure he lacks the arm that some like Farve have so he doesn't get away with the turnovers Farve and other's have gotten away with over their careers) and probably is less effective when he's playing scared to death to turn the ball over. Besides we saw last season it didn't really do much for him, and never let him get into a rhythm.
Sure I thought cutting his attempt would help, but it didn't. So they need to move on and let him throw. At least he'll get the yards and td's.
Folks would be surprised at how many "elite" qb's have far surpassed Daltons INT's high of 20 multiple times over their career. But because they are perceived to have strong arms they keep their elite status and get excused. Get called gunslingers etc....
Folks on this board even slam Dalton for his high INT's while claiming some of these other qb's are better even though over their careers they have far surpassed 20 int multiple times. Big Ben, Eli, Cutler..... The list goes on. Many of which has far surpassed Daltons Int high. Many multiple times over their careers.
Not getting slammed by me. I completely agree, get out of his head and let him play.
He doesn't necessarily need more attempts though, he just needs to be able to get into a rhythm and if he is thinking too much it only hurts.
RE: What Andy is doing to cut down turnovers. - BoomerFan - 06-11-2015
Idea that people will hate: If the offense sputters this year and the Redskins also struggle, we should try get Jay Gruden back as OC.
RE: What Andy is doing to cut down turnovers. - CincyProduct - 06-11-2015
(06-11-2015, 05:44 PM)BoomerFan Wrote: Idea that people will hate: If the offense sputters this year and the Redskins also struggle, we should try get Jay Gruden back as OC.
Yep I hate it especailly if it means our run average drops back down to around 3.5..
RE: What Andy is doing to cut down turnovers. - McC - 06-11-2015
(06-11-2015, 02:48 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Not getting slammed by me. I completely agree, get out of his head and let him play.
He doesn't necessarily need more attempts though, he just needs to be able to get into a rhythm and if he is thinking too much it only hurts.
I've always thought the QB should call his own plays. He's out there in it, not over there watching it. He has a better feel for the flow of the game. Is he your leader or not, you know? The more faith the coaches put in the QB, the more he has in himself, the more the team has in him. Nobody knows how to get a QB into a rhythm like the QB.
RE: What Andy is doing to cut down turnovers. - Stormborn - 06-11-2015
(06-11-2015, 02:32 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: based on the average time hes holding onto the ball... There isnt much progression to go thru
Gotta like that he knows and owns up to his issue... which is the first step to fixing it.
Trying to make plays when that arent there... Gets a lot of Qbs in trouble.
The ran a lot of quick plays and got the ball out of his hands quickly, but when he takes 5 step drops, he is inconsistent going through all his options and and stepping up in the pocket to avoid exterior rushes. We saw what happened when he did relax in the pocket and step up.
I don't that's exactly the issue, I think he gets rattled in the pocket and loses his field vision and ends up making a bad decision. We also still saw him force throws, he needs to develop more pocket patience.
RE: What Andy is doing to cut down turnovers. - orangeandblackblood - 06-12-2015
(06-11-2015, 02:26 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: The best way Andy can cut down on turnovers is by handing it Hill and Bernard more often.
100% effective way of not throwing interceptions.
guaranteed to produce more fumbles tho