+- Cincinnati Bengals Message Board / Forums - Home of Jungle Noise (https://thebengalsboard.com)
+-- Forum: Cincinnati Bengals / NFL (https://thebengalsboard.com/forum-3.html)
+--- Forum: JUNGLE NOISE (https://thebengalsboard.com/forum-2.html)
+--- Thread: Will longevity result in Dalton as best Bengals QB ever? (/thread-6586.html)
Will longevity result in Dalton as best Bengals QB ever? - TecmoBengals - 05-29-2016
I believe most would agree the main Bengals franchise QBs throughout the organization’s history are Ken Anderson, Boomer Esiason, Carson Palmer, and Andy Dalton. The four QBs rank in the top four for franchise history in games played by a Bengals QB: Anderson – 192, Boomer – 134, Palmer – 97, and Dalton – 77.
My question for the forum posters, if Dalton continues to play long enough and passes Palmer in games and then reaches total games played similar to Boomer and Anderson, does it make him the best Bengals QB ever? Dalton does play in the modern-pass friendly QB league, but he is in contention to break all-time Bengal QB records. A small sample of stats:
Dalton ranks 4th for completions:
1. Anderson – 2654
2. Palmer – 2024
3. Boomer – 2015
4. Dalton – 1556
Dalton ranks 4th in yards thrown:
1. Anderson – 32838
2. Boomer – 27149
3. Palmer – 22694
4. Dalton – 18008
Dalton ranks 4th for TDs:
1. Anderson – 197
2. Boomer – 187
3. Palmer – 154
4. Dalton 124
I understand there are other statistics to consider, season win totals, Pro Bowls, MVP awards, trips to playoffs, playoff wins, Super Bowl appearances, and other factors to consider when determining who is the best all-time Bengals QB.
If Andy Dalton has longevity as a Bengals QB does he have a case for being the Bengals all-time franchise, best QB over Anderson, Boomer, and Palmer?
RE: Will longevity result in Dalton as best Bengals QB ever? - SunsetBengal - 05-29-2016
On the pace that he is trending, he could be the all-time Bengals stat leader in 4 seasons.
But, in order to be the all-time greatest Bengal QB, it's going to take some post season magic.
RE: Will longevity result in Dalton as best Bengals QB ever? - Shake n Blake - 05-29-2016
Like Sunset said, Dalton is on pace to break all those records in 2019. He already owns our season records for:
TDs (33)
Pass Yards (4293)
Passer rating (106.2)
If he does all that and gets some playoff wins, he will go down as the best QB in Bengals history. Strange to realize that when half the fan base loathes the guy. He really is our Donovan McNabb. Idiot Philly fans never realized what they had. They hated him on draft day and blamed him for everything even after he helped carry that team to 4 straight NFC title games.
RE: Will longevity result in Dalton as best Bengals QB ever? - Nebuchadnezzar - 05-29-2016
What will result in Dalton being the best Bengal will be a Super Bowl win or multiple Super Bowl wins.
RE: Will longevity result in Dalton as best Bengals QB ever? - SunsetBengal - 05-29-2016
(05-29-2016, 08:27 PM)Nebuchadnezzar Wrote: What will result in Dalton being the best Bengal will be a Super Bowl win or multiple Super Bowl wins.
I'm of the mindset that if this team gets that 1st playoff win, the floodgates will open.
RE: Will longevity result in Dalton as best Bengals QB ever? - Nebuchadnezzar - 05-29-2016
(05-29-2016, 08:41 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I'm of the mindset that if this team gets that 1st playoff win, the floodgates will open.
This is true and the talk will be he will never be as good or better than Boomer and Anderson. It won't be until he gets to a Super Bowl that people will compare him to the others. It will take multiple Super Bowl apperences that he would be considered the greatest. If the Bengals win the Super Bowl, hands down, it's Dalton although there will be those who won't be able to say so.
RE: Will longevity result in Dalton as best Bengals QB ever? - TecmoBengals - 05-29-2016
(05-29-2016, 08:27 PM)Nebuchadnezzar Wrote: What will result in Dalton being the best Bengal will be a Super Bowl win or multiple Super Bowl wins.
If he wins the Super Bowl and accomplishes what Anderson and Boomer couldn't, does he instantly become the best Bengal QB ever? I'd have to say yes. Super Bowls are what count.
RE: Will longevity result in Dalton as best Bengals QB ever? - bengalfan74 - 05-29-2016
(05-29-2016, 07:58 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Like Sunset said, Dalton is on pace to break all those records in 2019. He already owns our season records for:
TDs (33)
Pass Yards (4293)
Passer rating (106.2)
If he does all that and gets some playoff wins, he will go down as the best QB in Bengals history. Strange to realize that when half the fan base loathes the guy. He really is our Donovan McNabb. Idiot Philly fans never realized what they had. They hated him on draft day and blamed him for everything even after he helped carry that team to 4 straight NFC title games.
Nail meet hammer ! McNabb part 2
Andy Dalton is not what has ailed this team over the miserable playoff losses. (ML) cough, cough
But yes Dalton is well on pace to be at the top of the QB list. If he's lucky enough to get a few seasons in the post Marvin era and playoff wins finally come, I've little doubt he will be.
RE: Will longevity result in Dalton as best Bengals QB ever? - Essex Johnson - 05-30-2016
I guess I could say the opposite that ML has helped Andy become a top ten QB and last year showed as he is maturing as a QB and having to lead the team to the playoffs 5 straight years is very impressive plus a overall record as QB of 50-30-1 is the best average of any starting QB for the Bengals . As for the playoffs, i do believe he has to win a one to two times to move above Boomer, as for Anderson who I believe is a HOF, so Andy would have to put together a HOF career to surpass Anderson
RE: Will longevity result in Dalton as best Bengals QB ever? - Rhinocero23 - 05-30-2016
(05-29-2016, 08:49 PM)Nebuchadnezzar Wrote: This is true and the talk will be he will never be as good or better than Boomer and Anderson. It won't be until he gets to a Super Bowl that people will compare him to the others. It will take multiple Super Bowl apperences that he would be considered the greatest. If the Bengals win the Super Bowl, hands down, it's Dalton although there will be those who won't be able to say so.
He is not on par with any of the QB's listed above him on that stat sheet. The organization has improved tremendously from those eras. The new CBA has changed the front office game for now as well... but that is a different story. Dalton has to do something with the team in the post season or he will be remember as the QB that has done the least with the most.
There is not a single honest Bengals fan who had the opportunity to watch Anderson, Boomer or Palmer play who thinks Dalton is in the same conversation. Any of those QB's couple with this front office (Tobin) would have already done much more than Dalton. Dalton is a overachieve for himself...unfortunately is a huge reason this team has underachieved.
RE: Will longevity result in Dalton as best Bengals QB ever? - Nately120 - 05-30-2016
Dalton might not have to do a whole lot to be the "best' Bengals QB, or at least the one we most fondly remember. Boomer and Carson both demanded trades and were, and are outwardly hostile towards the organization/Mike Brown so that narrows it down to just Anderson, who went to our most hated rival as a coach and won the SB with them. That kind of stings, but I think we're over it.
So it's Dalton or Anderson (or Greg Cook, if you're really into the "what if" game).
With that being said, we all know how the change in the game can make today's QBs look statistically superior to those of yesteryear. People are pointing out that Fitzpatrick threw the most TDs in a year for the Jets (he broke a record from a 14-game season during a time when it was ok to just knock WRs a mile off their routes, but hey who's counting?) as if it a relatively relatable situation.
Dalton is breaking Palmer's records while Palmer is in AZ breaking Kurt Werner and Neil Lomax's records. It's just the nature of the game. Matt Stafford's stats make Bart Starr look like a bum, and so on and so forth. Dalton has a chance to be THE Bengals QB because he's a good QB AND he hasn't outwardly bashed the team and/or won the SB as a member of the Steelers. Stats are even less relevant in Dalton's case than with other franchisees.
RE: Will longevity result in Dalton as best Bengals QB ever? - t3r3e3 - 05-30-2016
(05-29-2016, 09:04 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Nail meet hammer ! McNabb part 2
Andy Dalton is not what has ailed this team over the miserable playoff losses. (ML) cough, cough
But yes Dalton is well on pace to be at the top of the QB list. If he's lucky enough to get a few seasons in the post Marvin era and playoff wins finally come, I've little doubt he will be.
First off, as a past consistent Andy critic, I have to give Dalton his due. He played great last year. The lightbulb finally came on. However, he still hasn't got the Playoff monkey off his back. Andy's career line of a passer rating in the 50's combined with a 1:7 TD to TO ratio, is flat not getting it done. Last year was his chance to rewrite that script, but he got injured. Marvin has been a terrible Playoff coach, but it can be easily argued that McCarron's Playoff performance was superior to anything Dalton has done in his four chances. The hope is that Dalton balls out in the Playoffs this year and the Bengals advance, finally.
RE: Will longevity result in Dalton as best Bengals QB ever? - grampahol - 05-30-2016
Short of career ending injuries, trade or just giving up flat out he'll always be in the conversation about the best. The best is and always will be in people's minds and always be subjective in just too many ways. Stats don't always tell the story nor do wins. It's like with the Reds. In some minds Rose was the greatest Red, but others think it was Larkin or a pitcher..
Objectively he'll be in the conversation, but there will always be those who can never move on and nobody knows who our next QB will be..
RE: Will longevity result in Dalton as best Bengals QB ever? - SunsetBengal - 05-30-2016
(05-29-2016, 09:04 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Nail meet hammer ! McNabb part 2
Andy Dalton is not what has ailed this team over the miserable playoff losses. (ML) cough, cough
But yes Dalton is well on pace to be at the top of the QB list. If he's lucky enough to get a few seasons in the post Marvin era and playoff wins finally come, I've little doubt he will be.
Ken Anderson had a career playoff record of 2-4 with one SB appearance.
Boomer had a 3-2 playoff record, also with one SB appearance.
Andy will have to make some serious noise, in the next few years, as we all know he is off to an 0-4 start on his career playoff record. Though I truly feel like had he not broken his thumb, last year the Bengals could have been in the SB.
Is it fair to judge a guy's career legacy, based solely on his postseason record? I don't know, let's ask Jim Kelly.
RE: Will longevity result in Dalton as best Bengals QB ever? - Shake n Blake - 05-30-2016
(05-30-2016, 12:29 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Ken Anderson had a career playoff record of 2-4 with one SB appearance.
Boomer had a 3-2 playoff record, also with one SB appearance.
Andy will have to make some serious noise, in the next few years, as we all know he is off to an 0-4 start on his career playoff record. Though I truly feel like had he not broken his thumb, last year the Bengals could have been in the SB.
Is it fair to judge a guy's career legacy, based solely on his postseason record? I don't know, let's ask Jim Kelly.
Well in fairness, Jim made the HOF and is beloved in Buffalo.
I get what you're saying though, the 4 SB losses are his legacy.
RE: Will longevity result in Dalton as best Bengals QB ever? - jfkbengals - 05-30-2016
(05-30-2016, 12:29 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Ken Anderson had a career playoff record of 2-4 with one SB appearance.
Boomer had a 3-2 playoff record, also with one SB appearance.
Andy will have to make some serious noise, in the next few years, as we all know he is off to an 0-4 start on his career playoff record. Though I truly feel like had he not broken his thumb, last year the Bengals could have been in the SB.
Is it fair to judge a guy's career legacy, based solely on his postseason record? I don't know, let's ask Jim Kelly.
But soon to be 3-4!
RE: Will longevity result in Dalton as best Bengals QB ever? - SunsetBengal - 05-30-2016
(05-30-2016, 12:35 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Well in fairness, Jim made the HOF and is beloved in Buffalo.
I get what you're saying though, the 4 SB losses are his legacy.
And, of those 4 losses, two of them likely would have been wins, if it weren't for their kicker.
RE: Will longevity result in Dalton as best Bengals QB ever? - Nate (formerly eliminate08) - 05-30-2016
If he keeps up what he was showing last season of course.
Agree with Sunset that he needs to have more playoff success though for him to be ahead
of the likes of Anderson and Esiason. Carson was never good in the Playoffs either except
for the one pass to Henry before the ill fated play.
RE: Will longevity result in Dalton as best Bengals QB ever? - Vanilla Heat - 05-30-2016
The Boomer era was a disappointment. Outside of the one Super Bowl season, Boomer was somewhat erratic and inconsistent and his offenses never seemed to quite realize their potential with the loads of talent they had. He was a great leader and field general, but they never quite sustained drives well enough to put up enough points to be a great offense.
The Palmer years were also marked by unrealized potential, so Dalton will surpass Palmer in the rankings as soon as he hits the statistical milestones. If he wins a playoff game or multiple playoffs games , it will only cement his status above Palmer.
RE: Will longevity result in Dalton as best Bengals QB ever? - Vanilla Heat - 05-30-2016
(05-30-2016, 12:29 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Ken Anderson had a career playoff record of 2-4 with one SB appearance.
Boomer had a 3-2 playoff record, also with one SB appearance.
Andy will have to make some serious noise, in the next few years, as we all know he is off to an 0-4 start on his career playoff record. Though I truly feel like had he not broken his thumb, last year the Bengals could have been in the SB.
Is it fair to judge a guy's career legacy, based solely on his postseason record? I don't know, let's ask Jim Kelly.
But Anderson played about 15 season and only had one year that he won a playoff game.
Boomer played a long time too, and other than the one year he only won a single wildcard playoff game.
Dalton still has plenty of time, but he needs some playoff success and/or superbowl appearance.