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+--- Thread: Marvin, Marvin, Marvin... (/thread-7957.html)
Marvin, Marvin, Marvin... - Wes Mantooth - 09-26-2016
The loyalty shown to by this organization, and by a good amount of the fanbase, to Marvin Lewis is something that may indeed bite them. Big time. I think it will be more and more evident as time goes on.
Am I saying he is terrible coach? No, I am not. Am I saying that we would have been guaranteed greater success had we moved on? No, I would not make that argument. There are no guarantees with any coaching change. Do I think the keeping him was the worst possible move? No, I don't think so. Contrary to popular belief (Fred Toast types), some who feel, or felt it is, or was, time to move aren't coming to that conclusion based upon making change just for the sake of change. But I do wonder, now that we move further and further along in this 14 year experiment if some are finally realizes why so many argued for other options.
I guess first let's just get to the elephant in the room. A one, Mr. Mike Zimmer. A coach the vast majority of this fanbase loved, a coach many of his player's adored, and a DC that certainly earned a HC opportunity. Here he was, his resume begging for a chance. A chance that many felt came later than it should. Here he sat, leading our defenses to multiple top 10 finishes. A organization that hadn't seen a real defensive success in the better part of two decades. We had one coach had earned a shot somewhere, and we have another coach who had 12 years to accomplish something greater than a Wild Card round birth, and had failed. Obviously we all know what we chose.
The question is, did we make a mistake? Zimmer is currently sitting at 3-0, after having lost both his starting QB and the games best RB. Basically his entire offensive identity. And can anyone name 4 starters on that D without looking it up? He's 3-0, coming off an 11-5 season in year 2. By all accounts he is a no-nonsense guy. I have to wonder if a Mike Zimmer coach team would have behaved as Marvin's did at the end of last year's playoff loss?
How many of Marvin's biggest supporters still think today that not rewarding Mike Zimmer with a job he earned was that right move? Would you make that trade now?
And of course Jay left, and Hue left. And Marvin stayed. Marvin always stays.
-He stayed in 2008, after yet another disappointing year when John Harbaugh was hired by the Ravens. He's won a Superbowl, and been to 3, count them, 3 AFC Championships.
-He stayed in 2009, after a 4-12 season that would have saw any other team fire him, when Rex Ryan was hired by the Jets. He proceeded to immediately go to back to back AFC Championships.
-He stayed in 2010, after year 7, and another first round exit, when Pete Carrol was hired by the Seahwaks. He went on to win a Superbowl, go to back to back Superbowls, and has made further than Marvin has in the playoffs EVER, in 5 of his 6 seasons.
-He stayed in 2011, after going 4-12 again when John Fox was hired by the Broncos. He went to a Superbowl, and in all 4 seasons there made it to at least the divisional round of the playoffs. Again, Marvin hasn't been there once. Jim Harbaugh was hired by the 49'ers this same offseason. He proceeded to go the NFC Championship in year 1, to the Superbowl in year 2, and again to the NFC Championship again in year 3. Ron Rivera, coming off a Superbowl appearance was also hired this year.
Rather than keep typing resumes, here's a list of some other notable coaches hired since 2012: Andy Reid, Bruce Arians, Mike Zimmer, Gary Kubiak (Just won a ring in year 1)...
I just listed 10 guys, in about 5 minutes of research. Look at all of the names that come and go, look at all of the successes made by making a change.
And here Marvin sits. Year 14. Not one single playoff win. Not one. Forget Superbowls, or Conference Championship. The guy hasn't even made it the divisional round. IN 13 YEARS!!!! 13!!!!
But hey, maybe Mike just like working with what he knows. He's familiar with Marvin and that counts for something. Of course he was familiar with Mike Zimmer too and we let him walk. He was familiar with Hue Jackson too, and apparently we offered some deal that he could coach the team in 2027 or something (who does that, btw?).
Many of you love Marvin and are adamant about not making a change. I hope your patience pays off for everybody this year, yet I suspect it won't. But maybe by year 20 you'll realize that those of us who called for Zimmer to get the job weren't so irrational after all. Maybe by then you'll realize that there are actually other (better) options. Or maybe you won't?
Oh yeah, great job today, Marvin. You did enough clapping and yelled "Let's go" just enough times. The perfect amount even. Really looking forward to seeing how well we do come the postseason.
RE: Marvin, Marvin, Marvin... - TKUHL - 09-26-2016
Sad but true. Great thread.
RE: Marvin, Marvin, Marvin... - Nicomo Cosca - 09-26-2016
Thanks for rubbing salt in the wound.
That list of coaches makes me want to bang my head against the wall. You can also add the fact that we were close to hiring Tom Coughlin when we hired Marvin. Iirc it was down to those two. One won 2 SB, and the other...
RE: Marvin, Marvin, Marvin... - Brownshoe - 09-26-2016
I have wanted to get rid of Marvin since the 2009 playoff loss. The I really wanted to get rid of him after the 2013 playoff loss.
He's was hired as our HC when I was in Jr high. I think that's long enough.
RE: Marvin, Marvin, Marvin... - treee - 09-26-2016
I've already gone numb on the inside this year so it is gonna take a few really good games in a row to get me to even give a crap. Don't get me wrong, I'll still watch the game. But I'm not gonna be as invested. The dysfunction out there so far is just too damn much for me to get worked up over.
RE: Marvin, Marvin, Marvin... - Pat5775 - 09-26-2016
Thread of the decade right here folks.
RE: Marvin, Marvin, Marvin... - jeremydc - 09-26-2016
Should have offered Hue the job.
RE: Marvin, Marvin, Marvin... - Gamma Ray Tan - 09-26-2016
The Problem with the Bengals........see sig image below.
RE: Marvin, Marvin, Marvin... - SHRacerX - 09-26-2016
He was a major force in assembling great talent. I'm grateful for that, but I just want to gnash my teeth when I see no in-game adjustments, no energy in his team (in their home opener, no less), and no accountability for being horrible at one's job.
Championship teams play with fire. This is not a championship team, and we are putting way too much on Burfict and Eifert to change that.
RE: Marvin, Marvin, Marvin... - SHRacerX - 09-26-2016
(09-26-2016, 01:33 AM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: The question is, did we make a mistake?Our balls left with Zimmer and Hue. The Bengals have been neutered.
RE: Marvin, Marvin, Marvin... - Crowe - 09-26-2016
I think it's time for a change. There is too much complacency at the top. I love how he's helped turn the franchise around, but we will never see him bring a SB to Cincy. Look at how well Zimmer is doing with a worse team than ours. Look at Bellicheat, the dude is winning with a backups, backup who is a rookie. Look what Carrol has done for Seattle. I think Marv needs to either go into some type of management role or needs to go, this teams coaching is extremely questionable at times and it seems like none of them have any passion to actually challenge the NFL landscape. Last week not challenging the touchdown and then acting as if the non-fumble at the end of the game is ok, or this week against Denver there didn't seem to be any emotion coming from the coaches, there was no passion, there was no fire being lit under the players asses. Honestly, I'm tired of the act, go out there and get fired up, yell at the damn refs when they continue to put us in a hole, pull players when they **** up and replace them. This team is as good as any other in the NFL yet it seems that other coaches do more with less.
RE: Marvin, Marvin, Marvin... - yellowxdiscipline - 09-26-2016
We made a mistake not firing Marvin in past seasons when we had decent coordinators. Should have done it with Zimmer, then we missed another chance with Hue.
Now we have two coordinators who I wouldn't trust to park my car.
The organization has made great strides in the last decade, but somehow the blind loyalty it sometimes displays comes back to bite us. Marvin is the perfect example of blind loyalty holding us back.
RE: Marvin, Marvin, Marvin... - SHRacerX - 09-26-2016
(09-26-2016, 09:07 AM)yellowxdiscipline Wrote: We made a mistake not firing Marvin in past seasons when we had decent coordinators. Should have done it with Zimmer, then we missed another chance with Hue.
Now we have two coordinators who I wouldn't trust to park my car.
The organization has made great strides in the last decade, but somehow the blind loyalty it sometimes displays comes back to bite us. Marvin is the perfect example of blind loyalty holding us back.
Nailed it. I am grateful for the improvement in this team since the 90s. They have had some really good teams and are always in the playoff hunt, but I really feel that to take the next step, it has to be with someone that can get more out of the talent assembled. Most coaches are doing more with less talent. That's sad....to know it is there, but not get the payoff.
RE: Marvin, Marvin, Marvin... - Daddy-O - 09-26-2016
(09-26-2016, 09:07 AM)yellowxdiscipline Wrote: We made a mistake not firing Marvin in past seasons when we had decent coordinators. Should have done it with Zimmer, then we missed another chance with Hue.
Now we have two coordinators who I wouldn't trust to park my car.
The organization has made great strides in the last decade, but somehow the blind loyalty it sometimes displays comes back to bite us. Marvin is the perfect example of blind loyalty holding us back.
This is the difference with the Bengals and other successful organizations, Mike Brown is satisfied with mediocre. Other successful organizations are not satisfied with mediocrity, they make changes after successful seasons to get better (see Denver firing John Fox and hiring Gary Kubiack). The Bengals love the status quo and recently it's been good enough to keep things the same. But only in Bengaldome.
Marv is zero for the playoffs and now 0 - 7 against Gary Kubiack. Not even going to mention his record against Pittsburgh. It's hard to go "0" fer just based on shear odds. There's not even a blind squirrel in Marv's yard.
RE: Marvin, Marvin, Marvin... - jj22 - 09-26-2016
We don't have the coaches to get this thing turned around. At least in the past seasons that looked to be a struggle (2011,2012), we had Zimmer (and his D to lean on). We are left with hoping Marvin can do it, but he's never been able to pull us out of a slump without Zimmer.
RE: Marvin, Marvin, Marvin... - Wyche'sWarrior - 09-26-2016
(09-26-2016, 09:07 AM)yellowxdiscipline Wrote: We made a mistake not firing Marvin in past seasons when we had decent coordinators. Should have done it with Zimmer, then we missed another chance with Hue.
Now we have two coordinators who I wouldn't trust to park my car.
The organization has made great strides in the last decade, but somehow the blind loyalty it sometimes displays comes back to bite us. Marvin is the perfect example of blind loyalty holding us back.
Yep, and if memory serves, after we lost Zim, couldn't we have had Jim Schwartz.....the guy who just dominated Shitsburgh......as a DC?
RE: Marvin, Marvin, Marvin... - WestCoastBengalsFan - 09-26-2016
Mike Brown is obviously complacent with good, not great we all know that. At this point the shit is out of the horse for this season on our coaching, there's no putting it back in. What are changes that we could realistically make this season to get us from good to great? And more importantly will Mikey pull the trigger, extremely doubtful.
RE: Marvin, Marvin, Marvin... - Mickeypoo - 09-26-2016
I have wanted ML gone for awhile, but I do realize he brought a lot of positives to Cincy. It has been time to move on for awhile now. IMHO letting Zimmer walk instead of promoting him to HC and Lewis/Tobin to GM was one of the biggest whiffs I have seen in a long time from this FO. I believe those mistakes will set us back years if not decades. Such an incredible lack of not looking at the future. Pure headscratching dumbness. Oh well. It is the Mike Brown Bengals; what else is to be expected other than epic failure. Just my .02
RE: Marvin, Marvin, Marvin... - GodFather - 09-26-2016
The thing I don't like about the mindset of Marvin Lewis and the Bengals are that Zimmer leaves and they hire Paulie G to continue with Zims system with Paulie running it because everyone is comfortable with it. Then Hue leaves and Z takes over because he knows the system and the players know the system.
Who runs that system the best? Zim running Zim and Hue running Hue. The OC/DC coach are like a Journey cover band. They can imitate whats already been done but creating their own identity and bringing the team to another level won't happen. Mike Brown is a lazy owner when it comes to these things, makes it easy for him to hire within, keep Marvin as HC because although he's not winning the big games, he's doing enough.
And really thats the Bengals...not doing it all..but enough to keep the money train rolling ahead full steam.
RE: Marvin, Marvin, Marvin... - 740Bengal - 09-26-2016
Marvin should of been canned years ago.