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Like it or not...rebuilding started this past offseason - THE PISTONS - 11-15-2016
The Bengals had a good run of 5 consecutive playoff appearances...however, it's time to recognize now that the roster has aged and declined to a level that requires rebuilding.
It's time to get the young players on the field like Vigil, Denard, Shaw, Jackson, etc.
Rebuilding started with losing Sanu, Jones, Nelson, Smith, and Hall. That is a pretty good group of players. The guys that we replaced them with have generally not played up to their level.
Guys like MJ, Peko, Maualuga, and Jones all look like they are done here. Kirkpatrick and Zeitler are free agents. I'd be shocked if we en up retaining Zeitler as I think he'll get a huge offer somewhere. Whitworth will be retiring or leaving and at most he has 1-2 good years left in him.
Those guys all will need replaced.
Couple that will a poor last 3 drafts and you have good players leaving and not being replaced with quality players.
Sadly, we're not a coaching change away from competing. We're about 4-5 good players away. And when you don't sign more than a value free agent...they'll have to come through the draft.
Enter rebuilding...
RE: Like it or not...rebuilding started this past offseason - jj22 - 11-15-2016
Not sure Z will get a huge contract. Maybe one we're not willing to pay a guard, but not as huge as thought prior to this season. This season has hurt his chances at breaking the bank.
RE: Like it or not...rebuilding started this past offseason - THE PISTONS - 11-15-2016
(11-15-2016, 10:54 AM)jj22 Wrote: Not sure Z will get a huge contract. Maybe one we're not willing to pay a guard, but not as huge as thought prior to this season. This season has hurt his chances at breaking the bank.
I think he will. Our free agents tend to do well with other teams as I think the league knows they can coach them up more than our coaches do.
RE: Like it or not...rebuilding started this past offseason - jj22 - 11-15-2016
Well that's true, he'd probably be a probowl Guard somewhere else. Not sure if it's him or being sandwiched in-between Ced and Bodine, so it's possible it's them and he'll shine surrounded by better talent elsewhere.
RE: Like it or not...rebuilding started this past offseason - 740Bengal - 11-15-2016
I can live with rebuild, as long as I don't see Marvin's dumbfounded a$$ on the sideline looking confused and clapping when he realizes the camera is on him anymore. #HesNotMyCoach
RE: Like it or not...rebuilding started this past offseason - THE PISTONS - 11-15-2016
(11-15-2016, 11:19 AM)740Bengal Wrote: I can live with rebuild, as long as I don't see Marvin's dumbfounded a$$ on the sideline looking confused and clapping when he realizes the camera is on him anymore. #HesNotMyCoach
The problem is that largely the same management team will be in place for the rebuild...that rebuilt us in the 90's.
Whatever head coach we hire better be good at scouting.
RE: Like it or not...rebuilding started this past offseason - samhain - 11-15-2016
Sorry to say you are probably right. The deficiencies on this roster are far too great not to think otherwise.
The offensive line is in a terrible position. Only Boling can be depended on to come back next season and contribute. They need to pray Whit decides to give it another go and that Bodine improves. Otherwise, the two 2015 draft OTs look like dogshit. I'd hate to punt on first and second round assets like them this early, but one is getting us murdered on the field and the other sucks so bad that he can't replace the suckiest player on the team right now. Christ. Then there's Zeitler leaving or not, plus seemingly playing at a much lower level.
Then there's the defense with the line aging and young guys like Hunt getting displaced by street FAs and not even playing. Bust personified. Peko needs to be gone and MJ relegated to a rotational role. Our LBs suck outside of Vontaze, and we could probably use and upgrade at safety as well.
The you have the staff, which has been discussed amply already.
No way in hell do all these things get fixed in one offseason. This organization hates change and views signing any kind of upper-tier outside FA as sacrilege. I guess we could hang our hats on having a franchise qb and top WR. Won't matter if the trenches don't get fixed and discipline isn't addressed. Expecting any more than five wins from this team this year is delusion.
RE: Like it or not...rebuilding started this past offseason - THE PISTONS - 11-15-2016
Hunt was the worst draft pick ever. He was a 25 year old rookie project.
If he was like 21 it's a better pick...but that high to select a 25 year old...INSANE!
I was screaming about that at the time.
I think they knew that Dunlap or MJ would be leaving and panicked and tried to pick up their replacement.
RE: Like it or not...rebuilding started this past offseason - Bengalbug - 11-15-2016
(11-15-2016, 11:40 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Hunt was the worst draft pick ever. He was a 25 year old rookie project.
If he was like 21 it's a better pick...but that high to select a 25 year old...INSANE!
I was screaming about that at the time.
I think they knew that Dunlap or MJ would be leaving and panicked and tried to pick up their replacement.
Brandon weeden was drafted in first round and was older.
RE: Like it or not...rebuilding started this past offseason - THE PISTONS - 11-15-2016
(11-15-2016, 11:42 AM)Bengalbug Wrote: Brandon weeden was drafted in first round and was older.
The Browns did that. I don't consider them an NFL Team.
RE: Like it or not...rebuilding started this past offseason - J24 - 11-15-2016
If the Bengals make the right moves in the offseason then they will become contenders once again. Losing Hall, Nelson, Jones, and Sanu were not the problem per say. It was more not doing anything remotely close to fixing the pass rush that was the problem.
RE: Like it or not...rebuilding started this past offseason - THE PISTONS - 11-15-2016
(11-15-2016, 11:46 AM)J24 Wrote: If the Bengals make the right moves in the offseason then they will become contenders once again. Losing Hall, Nelson, Jones, and Sanu were not the problem per say. It was more not doing anything remotely close to fixing the pass rush that was the problem.
I just don't know. Whitworth is almost done. He'll need replaced.
Maualuga, Vinnie Rey, Dansby, possibly Zeitler will leave, Kirkpatrick, MJ looks done. That's a ton of players to replace...even if you only need to replace 2-3 of them.
Our drafts aren't producing 1 starter Year 1...let alone 2-3.
RE: Like it or not...rebuilding started this past offseason - J24 - 11-15-2016
(11-15-2016, 11:49 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I just don't know. Whitworth is almost done. He'll need replaced.
Maualuga, Vinnie Rey, Dansby, possibly Zeitler will leave, Kirkpatrick, MJ looks done. That's a ton of players to replace...even if you only need to replace 2-3 of them.
Our drafts aren't producing 1 starter Year 1...let alone 2-3.
Maluaga only plays 20% of the snaps and should be gone, they just signed V Rey so I doubt they cut him, Zeitler is a concern but hopefully they get smart and keep him, Dansby is past his prime and needs to go, Kirkpatrick is average and his lost won't hurt that much, and MJ should be given a lesser role but I don't think he is done.
RE: Like it or not...rebuilding started this past offseason - Millhouse - 11-15-2016
(11-15-2016, 11:46 AM)J24 Wrote: If the Bengals make the right moves in the offseason then they will become contenders once again. Losing Hall, Nelson, Jones, and Sanu were not the problem per say. It was more not doing anything remotely close to fixing the pass rush that was the problem.
Except Mike Brown is still the owner. Unless he hopefully kicks the bucket or retires, chances are they wont do what it is needed in free agency to make up for their crappy drafts they have had and probably will have yet again.
RE: Like it or not...rebuilding started this past offseason - Go Cards - 11-15-2016
Stated many times that our window was closing and we had to go all in the last two seasons instead of drafting for the future.
Was mocked repeatedly over being upset over the 2 OL taken early and one not being a Center. Especially since the OL was the best we had had in years at time except Bodine whom we all wanted replaced.. Was told over and over that this season I would understand why and that the Bengals drafted 2 OL with Whit and Andre FA and stupid me, we always do this. Which I said that if we always did this then maybe that was evidence enough that we should change. Pointed to Denver as example of every now and then you have to try and win it NOW.
Stated that Whit would not leave per loyalty and we would maybe lose Andre only which could be filled temporarily with FA signing if so.
Also replied that every year I want OL taken early except in these few years that Bengals were almost SB ready and already have a good OL yet could use an impact player. Which always wanted LB, DT, and C, at time. But was always told there were no LB's worthy of that high of a pick in that draft, which was bull.
Yet others did call for DT and Center but we were in minority. Anyway liked 1st pick this season but he met our curse head on along with Billings unfortunately.
Rant over and am not rehashing this again and will just look toward future.
Which Bengals can still get back up to speed quickly with right moves. The QB, TE, and WR's are already in place but the trenches and defense throughout need addressed. Which also was very vocal about not using a fair share of early picks on defense as of late. Still think it can be fixed quickly if Marvin is replaced with right guy. So I am now officially signing on to the time to replace Marvin crowd instead of making excuses for him.
Still hope he is moved to an office spot, GM would be perfect if ownership would finally sign off on one.
OK now rant is officially over. Not coming back here ever because do not even feel right about these type of replies. But it weighed heavily upon me and needed exercised.
Who-Dey !
RE: Like it or not...rebuilding started this past offseason - THE PISTONS - 12-07-2017
Unless we sign 2-3 quality free agents...I think we'll be mired in the 6-8 win range for some time.
Our 1st Round picks don't generally contribute enough to help us upgrade. And expecting more than 1-2 upgrades in a draft is unrealistic.
RE: Like it or not...rebuilding started this past offseason - Brimey - 12-07-2017
(12-07-2017, 03:22 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Unless we sign 2-3 quality free agents...I think we'll be mired in the 6-8 win range for some time.
Our 1st Round picks don't generally contribute enough to help us upgrade. And expecting more than 1-2 upgrades in a draft is unrealistic.
I agree. The sad part is 6-8 win talent can quickly be 12 win talent with some fresh upgrades. Some of these holes have existed for YEARS. And they only try to fill them with low round picks. We ever going to get a nickel pass rusher inside to pair with Atkins? A LB who can cover? A safety who ballhawks? (Nelson). A competent center? A kicker with a big leg?
We have 3 years of close to prime Atkins, green, Burfict, and Dunlap. Thats at best. Still have a shot if you spend the cash to fill these holes NOW, not grab a late pick and hope he develops.
RE: Like it or not...rebuilding started this past offseason - jj22 - 12-07-2017
Rebuild? More like rerun.
RE: Like it or not...rebuilding started this past offseason - ochocincos - 12-07-2017
(12-07-2017, 04:55 PM)Brimey Wrote: I agree. The sad part is 6-8 win talent can quickly be 12 win talent with some fresh upgrades. Some of these holes have existed for YEARS. And they only try to fill them with low round picks. We ever going to get a nickel pass rusher inside to pair with Atkins? A LB who can cover? A safety who ballhawks? (Nelson). A competent center? A kicker with a big leg?
We have 3 years of close to prime Atkins, green, Burfict, and Dunlap. Thats at best. Still have a shot if you spend the cash to fill these holes NOW, not grab a late pick and hope he develops.
To be fair, the Bengals did draft a kicker with a big leg. They just decided to stash him on the PS not thinking he'd ever get picked up by anyone else.
And some people (me specifically) thought Derron Smith could have been that ball hawking safety since he was such a good one in college. Unfortunately, he couldn't stay healthy and when he was healthy the Bengals still preferred to play Williams and Iloka because reasons.
There are a few decent options in the upcoming draft for a ball hawking safety and there's at least one big leg kicker too. Maybe the Bengals will pounce. Maybe.
RE: Like it or not...rebuilding started this past offseason - J24 - 12-07-2017
Outside of the Offensive Line I think this team is an easy rebuild but once again your depending on Mike Brown to be smart. So I don't know if there is any actual hope.