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+--- Thread: A different perspective on Dalton (/thread-9108.html)
A different perspective on Dalton - SHRacerX - 12-06-2016
Ok, maybe it isn't that different. But after what I saw against the Eagles, I will reiterate several points:
1.) When he is kept somewhat clean, he picks teams apart. And by somewhat, I mean that without Ogbuehi out there, no one is getting an untouched shot, but he doesn't have very long. He makes very quick decisions.
2.) Even though he has almost no threat of a running game, he is still on pace for 4500 yards and only has 6 INTs in 439 pass attempts. Only Carr and Stafford have fewer INTs(both have 5) with similar number of attempts.
3.) Despite a new OC, two primary weapons gone (not saying Lafell and Boyd are not capable, but they are in their first year with him), not having Eifert the first half of the season, and now not having AJ for three games, Dalton has completed 64.4% of his passes, has 3375 yards (on pace for 4500), 14 TDs, and just 6 INTs.
I will say it again. He may not be the best QB in the NFL, but he is the best VALUE and I think they can absolutely win a championship with him.
RE: A different perspective on Dalton - bengalfan74 - 12-06-2016
Agree,
And would only add with a competent coaching staff I fully believe this team would be leading the division and on their way to a playoff victory.
RE: A different perspective on Dalton - Wyche'sWarrior - 12-06-2016
(12-06-2016, 10:56 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Agree,
And would only add with a competent coaching staff I fully believe this team would be leading the division and on their way to a playoff victory.
This is a good point, a competent staff would not have kept trotting Ogbuehi out there past week 2. I am not a competent NFL level coach, and I would have benched his ass after that shit show in New York week 1.
RE: A different perspective on Dalton - xxlt - 12-06-2016
(12-06-2016, 10:53 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Ok, maybe it isn't that different. But after what I saw against the Eagles, I will reiterate several points:
1.) When he is kept somewhat clean, he picks teams apart. And by somewhat, I mean that without Ogbuehi out there, no one is getting an untouched shot, but he doesn't have very long. He makes very quick decisions.
2.) Even though he has almost no threat of a running game, he is still on pace for 4500 yards and only has 6 INTs in 439 pass attempts. Only Carr and Stafford have fewer INTs(both have 5) with similar number of attempts.
3.) Despite a new OC, two primary weapons gone (not saying Lafell and Boyd are not capable, but they are in their first year with him), not having Eifert the first half of the season, and now not having AJ for three games, Dalton has completed 64.4% of his passes, has 3375 yards (on pace for 4500), 14 TDs, and just 6 INTs.
I will say it again. He may not be the best QB in the NFL, but he is the best VALUE and I think they can absolutely win a championship with him.
Dalton could walk out onto the Ohio River, walk on it all the way to the Mississipp River and all the way to New Orleans and back, and win a Super Bowl, and you would still have "Bengals fans" crying, "Andy Dalton sucks," and "He isn't elite." But mostly, they would be saying, "Andy Dalton sucks." I am starting to think it is a fetish they have or something.
RE: A different perspective on Dalton - Go Cards - 12-06-2016
It is baffling what took so long to sit Ced.
Even more so after seeing the results Sunday. Surely they had tried this in practice before.
Just a head shaking stubborn decision that took Bengals out of contention.
Know bud said why ask why.
But WHY ?
RE: A different perspective on Dalton - Sabretooth - 12-06-2016
(12-06-2016, 12:20 PM)Go Cards Wrote: It is baffling what took so long to sit Ced.
Even more so after seeing the results Sunday. Surely they had tried this in practice before.
Just a head shaking stubborn decision that took Bengals out of contention.
Know bud said why ask why.
But WHY ?
The coaches are stale, inept, secure and bengalized.
RE: A different perspective on Dalton - Big Boss - 12-06-2016
To be fair, Ogbuehi isn't the only reason this team is 4-7-1.
RE: A different perspective on Dalton - Nicomo Cosca - 12-06-2016
(12-06-2016, 12:51 PM)Big Boss Wrote: To be fair, Ogbuehi isn't the only reason this team is 4-7-1.
Just the biggest.
Wrt Dalton, you're preaching to the choir. The majority of this board knows how good he is.
RE: A different perspective on Dalton - bengals67 - 12-06-2016
(12-06-2016, 12:20 PM)Go Cards Wrote: It is baffling what took so long to sit Ced.
Even more so after seeing the results Sunday. Surely they had tried this in practice before.
Just a head shaking stubborn decision that took Bengals out of contention.
Know bud said why ask why.
But WHY ?
same question about why Bodine has not been replaced after 3 years of being a below average center.
RE: A different perspective on Dalton - grampahol - 12-06-2016
Don't forget that the D started off pretty darn shakey giving up yards and points. Ogbuihi deserves to benched no doubt, but he was far from the only problem that got them in this position. Hill and Gio both (and Hill still) running like wheel chair invadids. Outside of AJ no other recievers were really getting open and Eifert was MIA the first half, everyone's favorite punching bag Bodine and his runner up to most hated, Nugent .. Lots of bad to go around ..So now it's audition time for next year's roster..
RE: A different perspective on Dalton - bengalguy71 - 12-06-2016
(12-06-2016, 10:53 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Ok, maybe it isn't that different. But after what I saw against the Eagles, I will reiterate several points:
1.) When he is kept somewhat clean, he picks teams apart. And by somewhat, I mean that without Ogbuehi out there, no one is getting an untouched shot, but he doesn't have very long. He makes very quick decisions.
2.) Even though he has almost no threat of a running game, he is still on pace for 4500 yards and only has 6 INTs in 439 pass attempts. Only Carr and Stafford have fewer INTs(both have 5) with similar number of attempts.
3.) Despite a new OC, two primary weapons gone (not saying Lafell and Boyd are not capable, but they are in their first year with him), not having Eifert the first half of the season, and now not having AJ for three games, Dalton has completed 64.4% of his passes, has 3375 yards (on pace for 4500), 14 TDs, and just 6 INTs.
I will say it again. He may not be the best QB in the NFL, but he is the best VALUE and I think they can absolutely win a championship with him.
I've always liked Andy as a person and a QB. There are other teams in the league that would give a right arm to have him. What I like about him and this kid for the Eagles, (Wentz) is that they both move on from any bad plays.
Sidebar: This kid Wentz reminds me alot of Dalton in his rookie year.
The big differences are Dalton had Green and was groomed to start before he was even drafted.
Wentz has nothing close to Green, tons of passes dropped by receivers, and wasn't named a starter until the trade was made.
He also has a tendency to throw high like Andy did his first couple of years.
RE: A different perspective on Dalton - bengalguy71 - 12-06-2016
(12-06-2016, 12:20 PM)Go Cards Wrote: It is baffling what took so long to sit Ced.
Even more so after seeing the results Sunday. Surely they had tried this in practice before.
Just a head shaking stubborn decision that took Bengals out of contention.
Know bud said why ask why.
But WHY ?
Check out the Radio Guys Recap on the website of the Philly game.
Lap asks the same question about Ced.
RE: A different perspective on Dalton - XenoMorph - 12-06-2016
(12-06-2016, 12:20 PM)Go Cards Wrote: It is baffling what took so long to sit Ced.
Even more so after seeing the results Sunday. Surely they had tried this in practice before.
Just a head shaking stubborn decision that took Bengals out of contention.
Know bud said why ask why.
But WHY ?
you expect 1st rounders to play well... they keep hoping he kept failing...
OB better start playing as expected or he will be inside @ guard or out of the league before too long. (right now hes not even playing as well as you expect a recently activated practice squader to play)
RE: A different perspective on Dalton - jj22 - 12-06-2016
Maybe we are seeing why teams with star wideouts rarely win championships. Dalton forced to spread it around and the offense shows improvement. Stafford this season too is proving that you don't need an elite wideout. It's certainly nice to have one, I'm not complaining, just something to note.
RE: A different perspective on Dalton - Nate (formerly eliminate08) - 12-06-2016
(12-06-2016, 10:53 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Ok, maybe it isn't that different. But after what I saw against the Eagles, I will reiterate several points:
1.) When he is kept somewhat clean, he picks teams apart. And by somewhat, I mean that without Ogbuehi out there, no one is getting an untouched shot, but he doesn't have very long. He makes very quick decisions.
2.) Even though he has almost no threat of a running game, he is still on pace for 4500 yards and only has 6 INTs in 439 pass attempts. Only Carr and Stafford have fewer INTs(both have 5) with similar number of attempts.
3.) Despite a new OC, two primary weapons gone (not saying Lafell and Boyd are not capable, but they are in their first year with him), not having Eifert the first half of the season, and now not having AJ for three games, Dalton has completed 64.4% of his passes, has 3375 yards (on pace for 4500), 14 TDs, and just 6 INTs.
I will say it again. He may not be the best QB in the NFL, but he is the best VALUE and I think they can absolutely win a championship with him.
All great points. Didn't know some of those stats SHRacer. Thanks.
Dalton is the best value of any QB in the league. Need to get him some help and he could put up mind blowing
numbers and get us atleast a Playoff win. The coaching is the biggest problem but if there is one coach on this
team that has not done a bad job it is probably Lazor. Dalton has done as well as could be hoped considering
the OL play and injuries to his weapons. Not to mention Zampese who has not been the best OC this year.
RE: A different perspective on Dalton - Shake n Blake - 12-06-2016
(12-06-2016, 12:51 PM)Big Boss Wrote: To be fair, Ogbuehi isn't the only reason this team is 4-7-1.
True, but with a better RT and K, this Bengals team would be around 7-5 at the very least and fighting for the division. The other problems are minor in comparison.
(12-06-2016, 03:46 PM)jj22 Wrote: Maybe we are seeing why teams with star wideouts rarely win championships. Dalton forced to spread it around and the offense shows improvement. Stafford this season too is proving that you don't need an elite wideout. It's certainly nice to have one, I'm not complaining, just something to note.
Love AJ Green to death, but I was saying the same thing years ago. Mainly because star WRs get QB money and all the teams with superstar WRs rarely seem to contend for SBs. All that said, I think it's clear the issue was at RT. We didn't improve just because Green was out. Fwiw, in 2014 and 2016 combined, Dalton has a 85.7 rating in 8 games without Green and a 88.8 rating with him.
So his rating actually dropped some, although not nearly as much as anti-Dalton guys would probably think.
RE: A different perspective on Dalton - Marlon23 - 12-06-2016
(12-06-2016, 10:53 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Ok, maybe it isn't that different. But after what I saw against the Eagles, I will reiterate several points:
1.) When he is kept somewhat clean, he picks teams apart. And by somewhat, I mean that without Ogbuehi out there, no one is getting an untouched shot, but he doesn't have very long. He makes very quick decisions.
2.) Even though he has almost no threat of a running game, he is still on pace for 4500 yards and only has 6 INTs in 439 pass attempts. Only Carr and Stafford have fewer INTs(both have 5) with similar number of attempts.
3.) Despite a new OC, two primary weapons gone (not saying Lafell and Boyd are not capable, but they are in their first year with him), not having Eifert the first half of the season, and now not having AJ for three games, Dalton has completed 64.4% of his passes, has 3375 yards (on pace for 4500), 14 TDs, and just 6 INTs.
I will say it again. He may not be the best QB in the NFL, but he is the best VALUE and I think they can absolutely win a championship with him.
All this is fine until you state you think we can win a Championship with him. It has been been Six Years. He has not won a playoff game yet. I don't see how anyone can think he will get it done, with a declining defense, the ins and outs of coaching staff, and with his own performance going into decline due to age in the next 2-3 years. Don't see it happening.
RE: A different perspective on Dalton - bengalguy71 - 12-06-2016
(12-06-2016, 06:29 PM)Marlon23 Wrote: All this is fine until you state you think we can win a Championship with him. It has been been Six Years. He has not won a playoff game yet. I don't see how anyone can think he will get it done, with a declining defense, the ins and outs of coaching staff, and with his own performance going into decline due to age in the next 2-3 years. Don't see it happening.
See here's the thing I find amazing. This statement would apply to ANY QB in the league, and I'm going to even throw Brady in there after what I've seen from the Pat organization when Brady ISN'T playing.
There is a mega thread for the anti-Dalton folk, but it's only been 5 years for him. I think the Bengals would have had the first seed last year had he not broke his thumb.
You also can't pin the playoff game the year before that, against the Colts, when there were injuries out the wazoo on offense.
Besides that, last year's playoff game had nothing to do with the QB as A.J. McCarron wasn't even on the field during the implosion!!
The Bengals Lombardi woes start and end with Mike Brown.
Not every rookie QB gets to step into a 'dream team' scenario like Russell Wilson and Zak Prescott did, with a kick butt team already in place.
Finally, I said it many times before, and I'll say it again, winning playoff games might get players a little extra cash, but outside of that, they mean absolutely nothing, UNLESS you win the last playoff game in that particular season.
Just ask Kenny Anderson, Boomer Esiason, Dan Marino, Andrew Luck, Cam Newton, Philip Rivers, Jay Cutler, Matt Ryan, and Carson Palmer to name a few.
RE: A different perspective on Dalton - Marlon23 - 12-06-2016
(12-06-2016, 07:13 PM)bengalguy71 Wrote: See here's the thing I find amazing. This statement would apply to ANY QB in the league, and I'm going to even throw Brady in there after what I've seen from the Pat organization when Brady ISN'T playing.
There is a mega thread for the anti-Dalton folk, but it's only been 5 years for him. I think the Bengals would have had the first seed last year had he not broke his thumb.
You also can't pin the playoff game the year before that, against the Colts, when there were injuries out the wazoo on offense.
Besides that, last year's playoff game had nothing to do with the QB as A.J. McCarron wasn't even on the field during the implosion!!
The Bengals Lombardi woes start and end with Mike Brown.
Not every rookie QB gets to step into a 'dream team' scenario like Russell Wilson and Zak Prescott did, with a kick butt team already in place.
Finally, I said it many times before, and I'll say it again, winning playoff games might get players a little extra cash, but outside of that, they mean absolutely nothing, UNLESS you win the last playoff game in that particular season.
Just ask Kenny Anderson, Boomer Esiason, Dan Marino, Andrew Luck, Cam Newton, Philip Rivers, Jay Cutler, Matt Ryan, and Carson Palmer to name a few.
RE: A different perspective on Dalton - bengalguy71 - 12-06-2016
(12-06-2016, 08:11 PM)Marlon23 Wrote:
That's it??? That's all you got????