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+--- Thread: Do the best teams run a 3-4 (/thread-9288.html)
Do the best teams run a 3-4 - bengals67 - 12-19-2016
This is my question.
Steelers can get a pass rush because the QB does not always know who is rushing.
In a 4-3, the o line has a better chance to prepare for who is coming.
Our D line has truthfully been about as bad this season as the o line. Game after game they cannot get any consistent pressure on the opposing QB.
This leads me to another issue about Marvin- I think he is stuck in 1980s football theory as opposed to staying up with the newest strategies.
There is a reason why Pittsburg, New England and Ravens run a 3-4 and get better pressure on QBs than Bengals out dated 4-3.
RE: Do the best teams run a 3-4 - Bengalbug - 12-19-2016
(12-19-2016, 10:43 AM)bengals67 Wrote: This is my question.
Steelers can get a pass rush because the QB does not always know who is rushing.
In a 4-3, the o line has a better chance to prepare for who is coming.
Our D line has truthfully been about as bad this season as the o line. Game after game they cannot get any consistent pressure on the opposing QB.
This leads me to another issue about Marvin- I think he is stuck in 1980s football theory as opposed to staying up with the newest strategies.
There is a reason why Pittsburg, New England and Ravens run a 3-4 and get better pressure on QBs than Bengals out dated 4-3.
Denver and Seattle do pretty well with a 4-3. So do the Giants
RE: Do the best teams run a 3-4 - THE PISTONS - 12-19-2016
I think it all depends on your personnel.
In a 3-4, you use the 3 guys to occupy blockers to free the LB's to make the plays. That would waste Geno and Dunlap. Dunlap would presumably be a LB in a 3-4. Geno would likely move to DE and his sack totals would plummet.
We also have no LB's who are good pass rushers and they struggle mightily in coverage.
Our current personnel are basically the total opposite of what you need to run a 3-4.
Conceptually, a 3-4 does get more speed on the field which I think helps in the modern NFL.
RE: Do the best teams run a 3-4 - Goalpost - 12-19-2016
A lot of the best athletes in the draft are 3-4 edge guys. Sometimes i wish we could adjust our defense to accommodate both 4-3 and 3-4 looks.
RE: Do the best teams run a 3-4 - Yojimbo - 12-19-2016
(12-19-2016, 10:43 AM)bengals67 Wrote: This is my question.
Steelers can get a pass rush because the QB does not always know who is rushing.
In a 4-3, the o line has a better chance to prepare for who is coming.
Our D line has truthfully been about as bad this season as the o line. Game after game they cannot get any consistent pressure on the opposing QB.
This leads me to another issue about Marvin- I think he is stuck in 1980s football theory as opposed to staying up with the newest strategies.
There is a reason why Pittsburg, New England and Ravens run a 3-4 and get better pressure on QBs than Bengals out dated 4-3.
New England actually was running more 4-3 than 3-4 this year with Long and Sheard as proto 4-3 DE's. the best teams have enough good personnel to run several different fronts. Our standard vanilla 4-3 was good enough to be the #2 defense in the league last year.
RE: Do the best teams run a 3-4 - THE PISTONS - 12-19-2016
(12-19-2016, 11:25 AM)Goalpost Wrote: A lot of the best athletes in the draft are 3-4 edge guys. Sometimes i wish we could adjust our defense to accommodate both 4-3 and 3-4 looks.
3-4 would be sweet...but we'd need 3 new LB's and a huge DT. May as well trade Geno too as he'd be wasted in it.
RE: Do the best teams run a 3-4 - Goalpost - 12-19-2016
I'm not familiar with how Atlanta runs its defense. But it appears Beasley is a 4-3 strong side linebacker but moves to rush edge on passing downs. He has 14 1/2 sacks this year.
http://www.myajc.com/sports/football/falcons-coaches-sold-beasley-move-linebacker/1ac73PSfOBhqp55zA8BqlJ/
RE: Do the best teams run a 3-4 - CageTheBengal - 12-19-2016
Our defense has been dominate more often than not over the past 5-6 years running a 4-3. One bad season shouldn't change that.
RE: Do the best teams run a 3-4 - THE PISTONS - 12-19-2016
(12-19-2016, 02:51 PM)Goalpost Wrote: I'm not familiar with how Atlanta runs its defense. But it appears Beasley is a 4-3 strong side linebacker but moves to rush edge on passing downs. He has 14 1/2 sacks this year.
http://www.myajc.com/sports/football/falcons-coaches-sold-beasley-move-linebacker/1ac73PSfOBhqp55zA8BqlJ/
Really in a 3-4...Dunlap would probably move to OLB...so the front would look the same with Geno moved to DE I'm assuming. Dunlap would line up standing instead of having his hand on the ground. Also he'd be in coverage more.
RE: Do the best teams run a 3-4 - Socal Bengals fan - 12-19-2016
We do not have the personal for a 3 4 defense. Dunlap is no 3 4 linebacker. Geno does not fit as a 2 gap end, Michael Johnson, well he's garbage doesn't fit anywhere. Peko might fit at nose tackle n Burfict would be great as a 3 4 inside backer but that's it. N Kirkpatrick is a terrible zone cb.
RE: Do the best teams run a 3-4 - Fan_in_Kettering - 12-19-2016
The best defenses in history ran a 4-3: The '85 Bears and '00 Ravens.
It takes the right personnel to run either defense -- and the Bengals do not have the type of players to run a 3-4.
RE: Do the best teams run a 3-4 - CageTheBengal - 12-19-2016
(12-19-2016, 04:04 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: The best defenses in history ran a 4-3: The '85 Bears and '00 Ravens.
It takes the right personnel to run either defense -- and the Bengals do not have the type of players to run a 3-4.
Exactly. That would be a real re-building process that would take time.
RE: Do the best teams run a 3-4 - Fan_in_Kettering - 12-19-2016
(12-19-2016, 04:05 PM)CageTheBengal Wrote: Exactly. That would be a real re-building process that would take time.
...as well as new coaches on the defensive side.
The 4-3 vs. 3-4 debate extends beyond the line and linebackers; even the secondary takes on new assignments in a 3-4 defense. It's a whole different strategy from the playbook to actual execution on the field. A three technique defensive tackle in a 4-3 would be lost in a 3-4 where a one technique nose tackle would be more desirable. Even more drastic are the differences between defensive ends in a 3-4 vice those in a 4-3 and let me tell you what: Put Michael Johnson and Carlos Dunlap in a 3-4 and they'll be lost mentally and physically because they become run stuffers instead of pass rushers and pass blockers. One needs a Haloti Ngata to do this.
The Bengals don't have the requisite type linebackers to play a 3-4 either. Vontaze Burfict might be able to learn to play inside but Rey Maualuga in a 3-4 would be a cruel joke because he's not fast enough to shoot the bigger gaps a 3-4 creates on the line or drop into coverage. Who intercepted Andy Dalton yesterday? Lawrence Timmons, a linebacker. The outside linebackers in a 3-4 have to be big and fast to set edges, chase down tight ends, and also snare running backs. James Harrison is prototypical here.
If a team is set up with the coaches and personnel to run a 4-3 as the Bengals are, there is no reason to change. It makes as much sense as the Steelers going to a 4-3 with their current players. That experiment would fail miserably.