(02-07-2017, 01:06 AM)Whatever Wrote: Round 1, Pick 9=Solomon Thomas, DE, Stanford-A little shorter than the Bengals usually like, but the pass rush is one of the biggest weaknesses on this team.  Thomas immediately upgrades the RDE position and gives us a pair of stud DE's to pair with Geno inside.

Round 2, Pick 9=Haasan Reddick, OLB, Temple-Blew up at the Senior Bowl, showing he can play ILB, OLB, or spot DE.  With 14.5 sacks over the past two seasons, he also adds another pass rush threat.  We need young talent at LB, and we need pass rushers.  Reddick is both.

Round 3, Pick 9=Elijah Qualls, DT, Washington-Qualls is a 320+ pound run stuffer that can collapse the pocket.  While we all have high hopes for Billings, he is an unknown as a 4th round pick and we need another quality NT to push for snaps.

Round 4,Pick 9=Joe Mixon, RB, Oklahoma-We all know the score.  However, with our current RB situation, Mixon is just too talented to pass on in this spot.

Round 4, Comp=Stacy Coley, WR, Miami(FL)-A pure burner to add a much needed deep threat to the offense.

Round 4, Comp=Danny Isidora, G, Miami(FL)-Some rough edges to round out, but could develop into a starter at RG in a year or two.  

Round 5, Pick 9=Jon Toth, C, Kentucky-Backs up Bodine this year, then competes for the starting job next year.

Round 6, Pick 9=Zane Gonzalez, K, Arizona St.-Best player in the draft at a position of need.

Round 6, Comp=Javarius Leamon, T, South Carolina St.-Project T with great size, length, and feet for the PS.

Round 6, Comp=Xavier Woods, S, Louisiana Tech-Ball hawk with 14 picks.  Has also played some CB.

Round 7=Ben Boulware, LB, Clemson-Intelligent player with tons of hustle.

(02-07-2017, 01:06 AM)Whatever Wrote: Round 1, Pick 9=Solomon Thomas, DE, Stanford-A little shorter than the Bengals usually like, but the pass rush is one of the biggest weaknesses on this team.  Thomas immediately upgrades the RDE position and gives us a pair of stud DE's to pair with Geno inside.

Round 2, Pick 9=Haasan Reddick, OLB, Temple-Blew up at the Senior Bowl, showing he can play ILB, OLB, or spot DE.  With 14.5 sacks over the past two seasons, he also adds another pass rush threat.  We need young talent at LB, and we need pass rushers.  Reddick is both.

Round 3, Pick 9=Elijah Qualls, DT, Washington-Qualls is a 320+ pound run stuffer that can collapse the pocket.  While we all have high hopes for Billings, he is an unknown as a 4th round pick and we need another quality NT to push for snaps.

Round 4,Pick 9=Joe Mixon, RB, Oklahoma-We all know the score.  However, with our current RB situation, Mixon is just too talented to pass on in this spot.

Round 4, Comp=Stacy Coley, WR, Miami(FL)-A pure burner to add a much needed deep threat to the offense.

Round 4, Comp=Danny Isidora, G, Miami(FL)-Some rough edges to round out, but could develop into a starter at RG in a year or two.  

Round 5, Pick 9=Jon Toth, C, Kentucky-Backs up Bodine this year, then competes for the starting job next year.

Round 6, Pick 9=Zane Gonzalez, K, Arizona St.-Best player in the draft at a position of need.

Round 6, Comp=Javarius Leamon, T, South Carolina St.-Project T with great size, length, and feet for the PS.

Round 6, Comp=Xavier Woods, S, Louisiana Tech-Ball hawk with 14 picks.  Has also played some CB.

Round 7=Ben Boulware, LB, Clemson-Intelligent player with tons of hustle.

(02-07-2017, 01:23 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Some draft gurus claim he is the best RB in the draft.  I didn't realize that he was 6'1" and 220.  That makes a huge difference.

IF he's there at this point in the draft, I have ZERO issues taking him.  He hasn't screwed up since his incident.  He took it seriously and didn't do anything illegal again - I'm willing to give him a second chance.

(02-07-2017, 03:03 PM)leonardfan40 Wrote: Please no! Guy clearly has impulse control issues and we already have pacman to handle. I'm tired of the character issue players. They just aren't worth it, more harm than good

(02-07-2017, 03:16 PM)Jpoore Wrote: So pacmans 2015 season was worth it?

(02-07-2017, 03:53 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Pacman's playoff performance snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. 

(02-07-2017, 04:58 PM)Jpoore Wrote: He played well but both calls were horrible. Porter not on field, Iloka pushed brown into burfict.

(02-07-2017, 04:58 PM)Jpoore Wrote: He played well but both calls were horrible. Porter not on field, Iloka pushed brown into burfict.

(02-07-2017, 05:32 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: He is a head case and lost his composure because he can't control his temper because he lacks self-discipline. 

Pacman. Henry. Thurman. Wilson. 

Even Marvin has said he can't turn these types around and they take his focus away from coaching the team to deal with their horseshit. At least Marvin has learned from past mistakes. But, not sure why the fans won't listen to him. 

(02-07-2017, 08:09 PM)Whatever Wrote: The Bengals have had lots of other players with bad off field incidents in college that never caused an issue, however.  Frostee Rucker was accused of rape by multiple women before coming here.  Rey Maualuga had off field issues at USC.  Cedric Benson had multiple incidents in college and the pros before coming here.  Bernard Scott reportedly punched a coach, among other things.  

I understand being gunshy about guys with character concerns, especially when talking about investing high draft picks and/or significant chunks of cap room into them.  If you take every person that's made a mistake off the field off your list, your draft pool shrinks significantly.  Every team in the league rolls the dice on character concerns.  You have to pick your spots, and be smart about it.  You can cut a 4th rounder easily if he screws up.  However, if Mixon stays on the straight and narrow and plays as advertised, you've got a stud 3 down RB for the next 4 years on the cheap.  To me, it's worth the risk, especially in a draft where you have 11 picks, possibly more, and two more picks in the same round.

Quote:Culture change: How Marvin Lewis turned the Bungles back into the Bengals 

Yahoo! Sports
Dan Wetzel
Yahoo! SportsJul 31, 2013, 10:37 PM


CINCINNATI – Following a disastrous four-win season in 2010, many Cincinnati Bengals fans wanted owner Mike Brown to fire coach Marvin Lewis. Nothing personal, Lewis is a terrific guy, but after eight seasons, you can't go 4-12, let alone when you're 60-67 overall. The trend line was obvious.

At the same time, plenty of Marvin Lewis' friends in football were calling him and telling him he needed to get out of Cincinnati. The franchise was lousy – too many bad apples on the roster, too much terrible history for it to be a coincidence. The script was written. He'd get another chance to do it right somewhere else.

Owner and coach had a meeting. They decided rather than separate, they'd reunite and apply the lessons they've learned in creating a losing team. And together, they'd change. Everything.

"I believed in him and he believed in me that we could get this right," Lewis said. "I restarted here. A lot of coaches have to move. I was basically able to start again here, [to] restart in the same spot."

He didn't waste the opportunity, cleaning house that offseason, empowering a core group of character guys and riding the unexpected positive effects of the NFL lockout that offseason to rewire the entire franchise.

"The lockout was the best thing," Lewis said. "The lockout took this franchise back out of the muck. It was like an exorcism. It was really good."

On Wednesday, Lewis sat in a Paul Brown Stadium meeting room with HBO "Hard Knocks" cameras installed all over the place, the most tangible sign that this is one of the most anticipated seasons in team history.

The locker room down the hall isn't just deep with talent, but the kind of team-first, mentally strong players Lewis vowed to ride or die with. Gone are the days of the police-blotter Bengals, let alone a bunch of me-first talents. Two consecutive playoff seasons (albeit without a victory) have everyone talking about breaking through and making a January run.

And Lewis swears this is different than past times (after 2005 and 2009) when expectations got high.

He has a team that is willing to trade individual "recognition for the ability to win a championship," he said. "That's what's most important. It's different than if you have a group of guys [who] have a limited amount of success and then they have personal recognition and they think it's all about them and they want to write books and beat their chest."

There is no Ochocinco here. No T.O. No Chris Henry or Odell Thurman or almost anyone else who may fit the above description or worse. Pacman Jones is here, but Lewis says, "Adam begged for an opportunity and for the most part, he’s made good on it. Adam has really turned the corner." There is also a smarter, more surefooted coach with a different philosophy on building a roster and running a team.

"Things that we knew were true were proven in 2010 to be true," Lewis said. "If you do those things, you're going to get your butt whipped. And if you do these other things, you're gong to be successful. Unfortunately, we had to live the 2010 season to really get that imprinted on our foreheads."

He said he sat down immediately and began plotting out the revolution. Who would be in and who would be out. The Bengals have been drafting very good talent for years, now it would focus on character also. No more reaching for talent, Lewis said. He volunteered to coach the Senior Bowl that year to help get to know the prospects as people.

He absolutely had to have guys he could count on. This from a team that not only drafted the late Chris Henry, but re-signed him even after a slew of arrests.

"I don't think Chris Henry, we would pick today," Lewis said. "See, Chris had social issues [at the time of the draft but] he hadn't really gotten into legal issues. Chris would have a harder time today just because we would be more sketchy on if he could handle the day to day of being a good teammate.

"I think there was always a feeling that boys will be boys," Lewis continued. "There are some boys that just can't get over being boys. And unfortunately, the organization had to learn that."

The new theory led to the Bengals pruning themselves of anyone they deemed a potential distraction, such as running back Cedric Benson in 2011 even after three consecutive 1,000-yard seasons.

"Ced's not a bad guy," Lewis said. "He texted me last year [and asked] 'when did you make the decision I couldn't do that for you anymore, run for 1,300 yards.'

"And I said, 'Ced, it's not that I didn't think you could do that on the football field, it was the other [stuff] that I got tired of. When I would go to you and say we're going to rotate the backs [and Benson would take it poorly]. I don't need that anymore.' Those are the things they don't get. It could be something as simple as that. But you just get tired of it. Then they put the pout on. I don't need that [stuff]."

Lewis said he doesn't have the time or patience for unnecessary aggravation. The job is demanding enough. During the lockout, he realized there was life outside of football. He took up golf. He now belongs to two country clubs. On the grind of trying to manage a franchise, he's a bit more philosophical. He's not going to sweat everything.

"[Stuff] happens every day."

Lewis points to a turning point for everything. It came after the second preseason game of the 2011 season. Quarterback Carson Palmer was holding out, leaving the team in the hands of rookie Andy Dalton. The offense was terrible. Dalton didn't look ready for primetime after a 27-7 loss to the New York Jets.

The quarterback from TCU had won over his teammates during voluntary offseason workouts, but suddenly there was some hesitation. No one, especially the veterans, want to waste time on a team incapable of success. In the past, everything would've splintered. Instead, a group of team leaders, including Andrew Whitworth, Frostee Rucker, Domata Peko and Robert Geathers showed up in Lewis' office for a meeting.

It started with concern but soon, mostly due to a speech by Whitworth, you could say the new Bengals were born. What Lewis had wanted to surround himself with was showing itself.

"We just kind of said, 'you can sit around and complain about the situation we are in or we can say, we have no excuses, no reason to doubt, everyone thinks we can't do it anyway so let's go out and win football games,'" Whitworth said. No more dreaming of Carson Palmer walking through that door. "We said, 'the truth is we have a young kid who knows what he's doing and if we play well around him, we'll have success.'"

"I let Whitworth talk," Lewis said. "And they got it back. I think Whit had great words of wisdom for them and what we needed to do. And to not flinch. We have to work through the adversity. It's not going to be like we scripted."

Palmer, of course, would never return to the franchise, choosing to sit out until he was traded to Oakland for two high draft picks (which have resulted in cornerback Dre Kirkpatrick and rookie running back Giovani Bernard). Interestingly, Lewis thinks the old Bengals culture may have pushed the veteran QB out. If Palmer had seen the new one that would boost the confidence of his successor, perhaps he would've stayed.

"I thought Carson would be the leader of the revolution, but frankly I think he had enough and he wanted the chance to move on."

Lewis also believes Dalton was aided by a lockout that saw informal player workouts, mostly at the University of Cincinnati, instead of official mini camps and organized team activities. Normally, you'd think a rookie en route to being a week one starter would need as much coaching as possible.

"They had to learn to trust Andy, to accept Andy without us," Lewis said. "Had we had OTAs and we just stuck Andy as the quarterback and we're all 'Andy this,' all 'Andy that' [it may have been different]. They got to know Andy Dalton by Andy Dalton. He earned their respect separate from us."

Dalton has thrown for 47 touchdowns in two seasons and is a star on the rise. He credits the team for believing in him early.

"As a rookie you want to know that everybody has confidence in you," Dalton said. "It was good to come into that situation."

There was really just that one moment of doubt following the Jets preseason loss. It was over in half a meeting.

"This team made a decision to go play winning football," Whitworth said.

"And boom," Lewis said. "We won."

The locker room is exceptionally tight, the players say. Whitworth, for one, is even letting rookie tight end Tyler Eifert crash at his house until Eifert's condo is finished being built. It may even extend into the season.

"It's a nice house," Eifert said with a smile.

"He's being babied a little," Whitworth said of his wife's hospitality.

So far, Eifert hasn't even been pushed into mowing the lawn or doing the dishes.

"He keeps threatening he's going to give me something, but not yet," Eifert said.

"He doesn't know what's coming yet," Whitworth said. "You have to make them feel at home first, then you give them their tasks."

It's clearly a long way removed from the bad news Bengals of old.

Lewis knows how worthless preseason predictions are, so he really isn't too excited about all the hype about the playoffs.

"We can't talk about January when we have the defending Super Bowl champions in our division," he noted. "We have to take care of business at hand, which is this football season. We've got to play great football."

He points to his days on Brian Billick's staff in Baltimore, where no matter how powerful the team looked, Billick would walk around and refocus the coaches by saying, "we're not very good."

Still, there is only so much Lewis can do to hide the satisfaction of having a young, talented team. And one that seems to know how to stay focused.

"This team is extremely young but it's better every time it steps on the football field," Whitworth said. "[We] have the potential to do something special. You just have to keep harping on it, keep putting your foot on the pedal. We need to go win games we're not supposed to. We need to go win the games on the road against tough opponents. That's kind of the next step."

"There's no secret potion," said linebacker James Harrison, who came to the Bengals from Pittsburgh where he was part of two Super Bowl champions. "It's called hard work. You have to go out there and put in the work and dedicate yourself to getting better. That's it."

For Lewis, the entire boomerang of the last couple years is almost unheard of in the NFL. He was all but done. Instead, he picked himself up from the coaching canvas. And now he's babysitting less, relaxing more. His golf handicap, he says, is down to a 13. He's still pouring time into his extensive charitable work.

And he knows he has a core of leaders in the locker room who have built this "foundation, this core inner strength, this mental toughness."

Mostly, he's been able to implement the lessons learned – "Damn, I knew that, but I didn't listen" – from what was essentially his first coaching run into his second coaching run, only with the exact same franchise.

He conducted an exorcism after 2010, of the roster and the way the Bengals did business. It resulted in the resurrection of a coaching career, and perhaps a franchise too.

(02-07-2017, 10:10 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: https://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--how-marvin-lewis-turned-the-bungles-back-into-the-bengals-023735492.html

Rey Maualuga had a drinking problem which continued after his arrival in Cincinnati leading to a DUI. I suspect it is the cause of his annual training camp beer belly.
Cedric Benson was arrested twice, I believe, after signing with Cincinnati so clearly he didn't change and Lewis reports he wasn't re-signed because they were tired of his shit.
I was unaware of Frostee Rucker's past, but after some reading his past is pretty shady and he has since be convicted of domestic abuse.
Since Pacman "really turned the corner" he has been arrested at least four times.  Plus he was at the epicenter of the playoff meltdown because he is mentally weak.
And let's not forget that gem, Nate Webster.
Bernard Scott may be the only one whose character concerns haven't continued repeatedly.
Marvin Lewis himself has stated, " Damn, I knew that, but I didn't listen."  I don't expect them to be choir boys.  I'm willing to forgive a DUI or a failed drug test for marijuana provided they learn a lesson.  While there are some things I will not tolerate.

(02-07-2017, 03:03 PM)leonardfan40 Wrote: Please no! Guy clearly has impulse control issues and we already have pacman to handle. I'm tired of the character issue players. They just aren't worth it, more harm than good

(02-08-2017, 12:03 AM)Hammerstripes Wrote: So, one mistake and then a couple years of staying clean makes him an issue?

I'm not buying it.  He learned his lesson and he's stayed clean.  3rd round comp would be a great slot for him.

(02-08-2017, 12:00 AM)Whatever Wrote: Benson got the axe because he didn't want to split carries.  Marvin even says as much in the article.

The main issues for the football team are simple.  Is the player a me first player or a team first player? Is he a repeat offender that is likely to be a distraction?  The first can only really be answered in interviews.  The second can only be answered over time.  

Furthermore, it's not like Marvin's renewed commitment to high character guys, at least per the article, have netted the team a playoff win, let alone an AFC title or Super Bowl win.  It would be a lot easier to go with his reasoning if we weren't pretty much back in the same boat we were in when he changed his philosophy.

The big issue with the Bengals hasn't really so much been rolling the dice on guys with character red flags.  Every team in the league does it.  It's guys like Henry and Jones that they have held on to long after they have proven themselves to be problems.  Again, a low draft pick with a low dollar figure is easy to get out from under.

The playoff loss is on a lot of people.  Jones is part of that, but so is Burfict for picking a terrible time to get some payback, Hill for fumbling, Marvin for not just taking three knees and kicking the FG, and the entire offense for its pathetic play for 3 quarters.

What Mixon did was worse from a moral than failing a drug test, but a failed marijuana test would concern me more.  Reason being, there's a lot more guys that are repeat offenders for weed than domestic violence.  Guys like Josh Gordon and LeVeon Bell have been big distractions for their teams while they smoke themselves out of the league.

(02-07-2017, 01:06 AM)Whatever Wrote: Round 1, Pick 9=Solomon Thomas, DE, Stanford-A little shorter than the Bengals usually like, but the pass rush is one of the biggest weaknesses on this team.  Thomas immediately upgrades the RDE position and gives us a pair of stud DE's to pair with Geno inside.

Round 2, Pick 9=Haasan Reddick, OLB, Temple-Blew up at the Senior Bowl, showing he can play ILB, OLB, or spot DE.  With 14.5 sacks over the past two seasons, he also adds another pass rush threat.  We need young talent at LB, and we need pass rushers.  Reddick is both.

Round 3, Pick 9=Elijah Qualls, DT, Washington-Qualls is a 320+ pound run stuffer that can collapse the pocket.  While we all have high hopes for Billings, he is an unknown as a 4th round pick and we need another quality NT to push for snaps.

Round 4,Pick 9=Joe Mixon, RB, Oklahoma-We all know the score.  However, with our current RB situation, Mixon is just too talented to pass on in this spot.

Round 4, Comp=Stacy Coley, WR, Miami(FL)-A pure burner to add a much needed deep threat to the offense.

Round 4, Comp=Danny Isidora, G, Miami(FL)-Some rough edges to round out, but could develop into a starter at RG in a year or two.  

Round 5, Pick 9=Jon Toth, C, Kentucky-Backs up Bodine this year, then competes for the starting job next year.

Round 6, Pick 9=Zane Gonzalez, K, Arizona St.-Best player in the draft at a position of need.

Round 6, Comp=Javarius Leamon, T, South Carolina St.-Project T with great size, length, and feet for the PS.

Round 6, Comp=Xavier Woods, S, Louisiana Tech-Ball hawk with 14 picks.  Has also played some CB.

Round 7=Ben Boulware, LB, Clemson-Intelligent player with tons of hustle.

(02-08-2017, 04:28 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Let's make it simple: were the Bengals more successful before or after the 2010 reset? After. Lewis credits that, in large part, to a new philosophy of avoiding the head cases. But, the few he has taken a chance on have sabotaged the team's success. 

The marijuana issue is a whole can of worms onto itself, but I'm more tolerant of smoking weed. Reason being the narcotics and other medications team doctors use are just as harmful or worse than marijuana. Opioid abuse is an epidemic. I don't think cannabis should be any more illegal than oxycodone and the fact pot is a Schedule I and oxy is a Schedule II is laughable. But, it is against the rules and the law so players have to abide by those rules. 

Domestic abuse is a pattern. It isn't a one and done thing. If a man is stupid enough to publicly punch a woman breaking four facial bones which required reconstructive surgery because she barely slapped him, I guarantee there are other skeletons in that closet not caught on video. Mixon tried to physically intimidate a female parking attendant over a parking ticket after he knew he was under a microscope. Because he obviously didn't learn anything from the court ordered anger management classes and he is the type of person who believes it is okay to intimidate or abuse those he perceives as weaker. I don't give a shit how well he runs the football. I wouldn't draft him in any round. He's a PR time bomb. There are plenty of talented RBs in this draft class. 

(02-08-2017, 11:56 AM)Whatever Wrote: They had more success, yes.  At the same time, they have still kept repeat headaches like Jones and Burfict around.  You have to wonder how much the philosophy has actually changed.

Again, from a morality standpoint, I agree that what Mixon did is worse than smoking weed.  I also won't deny that domestic violence is often a pattern of behavior.  However, amongst NFL players, pot smokers are far more likely to be repeat offenders.  That point isn't even debatable.  Guys who get busted for domestic violence typically do not get busted again.  Nobody has ever ruined their career through repeat domestic violence incidents except arguably Josh Brown.  With weed, you have Ricky Williams, Josh Gordon, Martavious Bryant, etc, etc.

Almost all of these players have skeletons in their closets.  How many guys that got popped for weed do or did harder drugs or committed crimes for money to buy it?  You can apply that logic to any player in the draft.  You can't assume these guys are innocent until proven guilty, but not these guys.

Most successful SB teams have had their low character guys.  Tom Brady commited adultery.  Peyton Manning stuck his junk in a female trainer'sface.  Ben Roethlisberger was twice accused of rape.  Ray Lewis was involved in a murder.  Ray Rice had a domestic violence issue.  Jamal Lewis was dealing drugs.  Plaxico Burgess shot himelf while illegally packing.  Marvin Harrison shot someone.  There's not a lot of recent SB champs without their share of character issues.  

(02-08-2017, 12:18 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Explain the Tom Brady adultery allegation.