why clinging to Geno?

[kalibengal]

I dont get it. Is MB having zoom meetings with Tobin and Lou replaying all of Genos great seasons (like 4 to 7 yrs ago?) and saying dont let him leave! he can regain his elite playing level after ACL tears, shoulder issues ....yea right. Ar best he is a 3rd down rotational DT now. AT BEST. CLEAR THE CAP SPACE AND BRING IN SOME FRESH TALENT FOR GODSAKE! THIS SHIT JUST PISSES ME OFF ABOUT THIS TEAM.

[XenoMorph]

(03-17-2021, 02:41 PM)kalibengal Wrote: I dont get it. Is MB having zoom meetings with Tobin and Lou replaying all of Genos great seasons (like 4 to 7 yrs ago?) and saying dont let him leave!  he can regain his elite playing level after ACL tears, shoulder issues ....yea right. Ar best he is a 3rd down rotational DT now. AT BEST. CLEAR THE CAP SPACE AND BRING IN SOME FRESH TALENT FOR GODSAKE! THIS SHIT JUST PISSES ME OFF ABOUT THIS TEAM.

i believe hes on the trade block...  Some teams probly trying to sure up other areas to see if they can afford. 

Bringing him back wouldnt be the worst thing

[fredtoast]

(03-17-2021, 02:41 PM)kalibengal Wrote:  (like 4 to 7 yrs ago?) 

Atkins was a Pro Bowl STARTER in 2019.  His numbers dropped from 2018, but he was still a very good DT.

He was injured all of last year.

[jj22]

They always screw up with how they end relationships with star players.

Just can't get it right.

Geno should have acted a fool like Dunlap. That's pretty much the only way out if under contract. But no one is foolish enough to pay him 14m, so like AJ he'll probably collect on it, while declining further.

[Luvnit2]

(03-17-2021, 02:41 PM)kalibengal Wrote: I dont get it. Is MB having zoom meetings with Tobin and Lou replaying all of Genos great seasons (like 4 to 7 yrs ago?) and saying dont let him leave!  he can regain his elite playing level after ACL tears, shoulder issues ....yea right. Ar best he is a 3rd down rotational DT now. AT BEST. CLEAR THE CAP SPACE AND BRING IN SOME FRESH TALENT FOR GODSAKE! THIS SHIT JUST PISSES ME OFF ABOUT THIS TEAM.

Geno gets only a 100K roster bonus, so they can still trade or cut him after the draft. If they cut him designated June 1, then they can spread the cap dead money over 2 years versus all in 2021. Important as we and all teams will have more cap money in 2022.

Also, if they wait until after the draft, a team may miss out on their DT so acquire Geno for a 5th or 7th round pick.

[Shake n Blake]

(03-17-2021, 02:48 PM)jj22 Wrote: They always screw up with how they end relationships with star players.

Just can't get it right.

Geno should have acted a fool like Dunlap. That's pretty much the only way out if under contract. But no one is foolish enough to pay him 14m, so like AJ he'll probably collect on it, while declining further.

Agreed. If there was an NFL cut prediction machine, you could type in Geno's age, injuries and salary, and he'd be cut 98% of the time.

The Texans knew when to cut bait with JJ Watt, and as great as Geno has been, he's not JJ Watt.

[Wes Mantooth]

(03-17-2021, 02:47 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Atkins was a Pro Bowl STARTER in 2019. 

Pro Bowls mean nothing anymore.  It's a name familarity contest.

He's been clearly declining for awhile, he's soon to be 33, and he was absolutely worthless last season.  Being a Pro Bowl starter doesn't change that

[Benton]

(03-17-2021, 02:48 PM)jj22 Wrote: They always screw up with how they end relationships with star players.

Just can't get it right.

Geno should have acted a fool like Dunlap. That's pretty much the only way out if under contract. But no one is foolish enough to pay him 14m, so like AJ he'll probably collect on it, while declining further.

He probably wouldn't have passed a physical for a trade.

[jj22]

(03-17-2021, 03:08 PM)Benton Wrote: He probably wouldn't have passed a physical for a trade.

I'd be shocked if they can trade him for what he is set to make either way. Unless he takes a pay cut for a trade, but I'd think they would have had to act fast. 

Heck, if he takes a pay cut then I wouldn't mind him staying. 

[fredtoast]

(03-17-2021, 03:04 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Pro Bowls mean nothing anymore.  It's a name familarity contest.

Two thirds of the voting is by NFL coaches and players.  So it is far from meaningless.

Plus, it is funny how some people like to point out how frw Pro Bowl players the Bengals have drafted recently, but then claim it is "meaningless" when a Bengal is selected.

[Wes Mantooth]

(03-17-2021, 02:54 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: If they cut him designated June 1, then they can spread the cap dead money over 2 years versus all in 2021. Important as we and all teams will have more cap money in 2022.

I tried to explain this to you before and I probably didn't do the best job.

The spreading it over two years is meaningless.  They could just as easily cut him now, asborb all of the dead money, and then structure another person's bonus to have 2.6 less this year, or 2.6 more next year, and offset it.

Here's a very simple example of what I'm talking about:

---Geno Atkins (Post 6/1) - 2.6mil  in 2021 and 2.6 mil in 2022.

---Free Agent A - 4 mil in 2021, and 4 mil in 2022

Total = 6.6 mil in 2021 and 6.6 in 2022

---Geno Atkins (Pre 6/1) - 5.2 mil in 2021 and 0 in 2022

---Free Agent A - 1.4 mil in 2021 and 6.6mil in 2022

Total = 6.6 mil in 2021 and 6.6 mil in 2022

The totals are identical through each year.  All you have to do to is move money around if you're that concerned about eating more money in 2021 by cutting Geno.  The dollar amounts and cap hits end up being exactly the same

[fredtoast]

(03-17-2021, 03:04 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote:  he was absolutely worthless last season.  Being a Pro Bowl starter doesn't change that

He was not a Pro Bowl starter last year.

I am not going to be upset if we cut Geno, but it is not as obvious a move as many of you are trying to claim.

[fredtoast]

(03-17-2021, 03:13 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: I tried to explain this to you before and I probably didn't do the best job.

The spreading it over two years is meaningless.  They could just as easily cut him now, asborb all of the dead money, and then structure another person's bonus to have 2.6 less this year, or 2.6 more next year, and offset it.

Here's a very simple example of what I'm talking about:

---Geno Atkins (Post 6/1) - 2.6mil  in 2021 and 2.6 mil in 2022.

---Free Agent A - 4 mil in 2021, and 4 mil in 2022

Total = 6.6 mil in 2021 and 6.6 in 2022

---Geno Atkins (Pre 6/1) - 5.2 mil in 2021 and 0 in 2022

---Free Agent A - 1.4 mil in 2021 and 6.6mil in 2022

Total = 6.6 mil in 2021 and 6.6 mil in 2022

The totals are identical through each year.  All you have to do to is move money around if you're that concerned about eating more money in 2021 by cutting Geno.  The dollar amounts and cap hits end up being exactly the same

But then you have to convince a free agent to take a lot more in year one or guarantee a larger portion of his contract.

Why would we do any of that when we are not even close to the cap?

[pulses]

(03-17-2021, 02:42 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: i believe hes on the trade block...  Some teams probly trying to sure up other areas to see if they can afford. 

Bringing him back wouldnt be the worst thing

Trade him to Minnesota for Danielle Hunter

[pulses]

(03-17-2021, 03:20 PM)fredtoast Wrote: But then you have to convince a free agent to take a lot more in year one or guarantee a larger portion of his contract.

Why would we do any of that when we are not even close to the cap?

Because the cap is going to increase in the years to come and it allows them to sign more players now and spread the wealth out later on while taking less in the 1at year.

[Sled21]

A Pro Bowl starter is a good thing.... unless it's a Bengal
An All Pro pickup in FA is a good thing..... unless it's the Bengals
Getting rid of a corner and replacing him with a better corner is a good thing.... unless it's the Bengals

Anyone see a pattern here?

2019 Geno had 47 tackles tying 2011 for his most in a season. He had 29 assisted tackles, the most of his career in a single season. And 4.5 sacks. He was hurt last year. Period.

[*ochocincos*]

(03-17-2021, 03:13 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: I tried to explain this to you before and I probably didn't do the best job.

The spreading it over two years is meaningless.  They could just as easily cut him now, asborb all of the dead money, and then structure another person's bonus to have 2.6 less this year, or 2.6 more next year, and offset it.

Here's a very simple example of what I'm talking about:

---Geno Atkins (Post 6/1) - 2.6mil  in 2021 and 2.6 mil in 2022.

---Free Agent A - 4 mil in 2021, and 4 mil in 2022

Total = 6.6 mil in 2021 and 6.6 in 2022

---Geno Atkins (Pre 6/1) - 5.2 mil in 2021 and 0 in 2022

---Free Agent A - 1.4 mil in 2021 and 6.6mil in 2022

Total = 6.6 mil in 2021 and 6.6 mil in 2022

The totals are identical through each year.  All you have to do to is move money around if you're that concerned about eating more money in 2021 by cutting Geno.  The dollar amounts and cap hits end up being exactly the same

The $2.6 mill isn't going to make a difference at this point.
The expensive FAs are off the board and they still have $20 mill in cap before cuts.
Cutting Atkins will get them close to $30 mill even if they don't do Post-June 1 designation.
They should have plenty of cap to fill the rest of their gaps and sign draft picks without that $2.6 mill making a difference.

[Wes Mantooth]

(03-17-2021, 03:20 PM)fredtoast Wrote: But then you have to convince a free agent to take a lot more in year one or guarantee a larger portion of his contract.

Why would we do any of that when we are not even close to the cap?

You don't know what you're talking about.

I'm talking about the signing bonus.  That gets paid out pretty much immediately. (Within the first year, often within weeks)  You can choose how to spread those cap hits.

So the player makes the same exact amount of money in either scenario, and it's of little to concern to him how the team chooses to spread out his signing bonus between years 1 and 2 (he already has that money).

Now, I'm sure you find one little thing in here to argue about, one minute detail to focus.  But believe me when I tell you that the team can easily offset the difference between 5.2 mil vs 2.6 + 2.6 mil by moving money around.  So let's all save ourselves the time of over arguing over semantics.

And really all of this is moot anyways with how the Bengals approach rollover money.  They've kept anywhere between 7-13 million dollars in rollover space every single year going back to 2012.  If cutting Atkins means 2.6 mil on this year's cap vs next year then they've got the room.

[TJHoushmandzadeh's Shiny Shoes]

No point in cutting Geno until his replacement is secured.

All it does is advertise to the agents you are negotiating with that you have more money to spend on their clients.

[Wes Mantooth]

(03-17-2021, 03:32 PM)ochocincos Wrote: The $2.6 mill isn't going to make a difference at this point.
The expensive FAs are off the board and they still have $20 mill in cap before cuts.
Cutting Atkins will get them close to $30 mill even if they don't do Post-June 1 designation.
They should have plenty of cap to fill the rest of their gaps and sign draft picks without that $2.6 mill making a difference.

I totally agree.  The 2.6 mil is meaningless.  Especially because I guarantee you we roll over more than that, so the cap space available for either year is essentially one and the same.

All I'm pointing out is that for those that are that concerned about eating 5.2 mil this year, vs. 2.6 + 2.6 this year and next, those numbers can be easily offset by how they spread about other people's signing bonuses.

All they would have to do to make Geno's 5.2 mil in 2021 and 0 in 2022 completely equal to 2.6 mil in 2021 and 2.6 mil in 2022 is take 2.6 mil off of other players signing bonus hits this year, and move that same 2.6 mil to next year.  (All of these bonuses are paid regardless, it's just simple cap management)

Anyways, I have no clue if any of this makes sense to anyone else.  And frankly, I really don't know why we (I) waste out time on stuff like this.  Geno is an obvious cap casualty. 

He would have been gone from 90% of teams in our situation at the trade deadline in 2019.  He would have been gone from 95% of the teams in the 2020 offseason.  Now it's just getting to the point where it's comical.  The man saves us almost 10 million dollars this year and he's not worth anywhere near that amount.  It's really as simple as that.

They need to get that money off the books ASAP and start investing in players that will help this team in the future.