Kapernick, Luck and Dalton

[XenoMorph]

(11-04-2015, 03:11 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Yep. Everything about that North stat line looks average.

yep i asked him to do that... But yeah his first few years vs the North were pretty bad... But hes getting better. This season hopefully skews things into a more favorible light on that end...

[GodFather]

Let's not go sucking our dicks just yet proclaiming Andy the king. His QBR against the Steelers was a 64.7, I wouldn't exactly say he lit it up last Sunday. We've been through this before with him looking very good and then out of nowhere he tanks. I do think he's improved this year tremendously SO FAR! I would also equate that to alot of other factors, mainly having a healthy WR corp and RB on the field with him. But his long ball accuracy definitely improved, which is great.

That being said, I would take Andrew Luck any day of the week over him and you'd be a fool not too. Luck is playing now with multiple fractured ribs. His team's management also seems to be a complete mess.

[XenoMorph]

(11-04-2015, 03:17 PM)GodFather Wrote: Let's not go sucking our dicks just yet proclaiming Andy the king. His QBR against the Steelers was a 64.7, I wouldn't exactly say he lit it up last Sunday. We've been through this before with him looking very good and then out of nowhere he tanks. I do think he's improved this year tremendously SO FAR! I would also equate that to alot of other factors, mainly having a healthy WR corp and RB on the field with him. But his long ball accuracy definitely improved, which is great.

That being said, I would take Andrew Luck any day of the week over him and you'd be a fool not too. Luck is playing now with multiple fractured ribs. His team's management also seems to be a complete mess.

luck says hes 100% healthy. just playing poorly.

Dalton didnt have a great game vs the steelers... He had a just enough game.

which in the past might not have been enough but getting the win even ugly is enough in a divisional contest.

I would not take luck this year at all... Not in fantasy or my real life football team

[WhoDeyWho]

(11-04-2015, 03:17 PM)GodFather Wrote: Let's not go sucking our dicks just yet proclaiming Andy the king. His QBR against the Steelers was a 64.7, I wouldn't exactly say he lit it up last Sunday. We've been through this before with him looking very good and then out of nowhere he tanks. I do think he's improved this year tremendously SO FAR! I would also equate that to alot of other factors, mainly having a healthy WR corp and RB on the field with him. But his long ball accuracy definitely improved, which is great.

That being said, I would take Andrew Luck any day of the week over him and you'd be a fool not too. Luck is playing now with multiple fractured ribs. His team's management also seems to be a complete mess.

The numbers suggest Dalton plays poorly against the Steelers, Browns, and Ravens and pretty damn good against everyone else. 

[djs7685]

(11-04-2015, 02:26 PM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: They have been miles ahead of the AFC South.  To the tune of 28 wins over the last 3 years.  

I'm just saying, we have a division with 2 teams that are talked about as contenders year in and year out along with us who have been to the playoffs for 4 straight seasons. I completely understand that we're in a great division and definitely the best in the conference over the past 4 seasons.

However, I just think the whole "omg AFCN smash mouth tough as nails grrrrrrr" stereotype it has is quite exaggerated. Every division plays physical football and even the "weaker" AFCE has a team that has been trouncing the entire conference since the turn of the century. Luck may have his benefits from a weaker division than some others, but he still has to play at least 10 games outside of it each season. Some people around here act like every game a team plays is a divisional matchup and that the Browns haven't been awful yet we split with them more often than we should.

Meh, it is what it is, I just wish people would stop putting so much stock into which division a team plays for to hype up or diminish the ability of certain QBs. You can bet that I won't be bashing Andy one bit for playing in a weakened AFCN this year. The Steelers, Ravens, and Browns could lose out (except when they play each other of course) and I wouldn't rag on Andy's great season because of it. That's just silly. He's playing good football, no need to act like 6 out of the 16 total games played are the only ones that really matter when looking at strength of opponents.

[WhoDeyWho]

(11-04-2015, 03:24 PM)djs7685 Wrote: I'm just saying, we have a division with 2 teams that are talked about as contenders year in and year out along with us who have been to the playoffs for 4 straight seasons. I completely understand that we're in a great division and definitely the best in the conference over the past 4 seasons.

However, I just think the whole "omg AFCN smash mouth tough as nails grrrrrrr" stereotype it has is quite exaggerated. Every division plays physical football and even the "weaker" AFCE has a team that has been trouncing the entire conference since the turn of the century. Luck may have his benefits from a weaker division than some others, but he still has to play at least 10 games outside of it each season. Some people around here act like every game a team plays is a divisional matchup and that the Browns haven't been awful yet we split with them more often than we should.

Meh, it is what it is, I just wish people would stop putting so much stock into which division a team plays for to hype up or diminish the ability of certain QBs. You can bet that I won't be bashing Andy one bit for playing in a weakened AFCN this year. The Steelers, Ravens, and Browns could lose out (except when they play each other of course) and I wouldn't rag on Andy's great season because of it. That's just silly. He's playing good football, no need to act like 6 out of the 16 total games played are the only ones that really matter when looking at strength of opponents.

Andrew Luck's AFC South Stats:

Games  19
Cmp % 59.6
Yards 4,828
Yds/Attempt 7.45
TD 34
INT 13

Andrew Luck vs the Rest of the NFL:

Games 35
Cmp % 57.5
Yards 9,766
Yds/Attempt 6.86
TD 65
INT 42

In 10 less games played against the rest of the league, Luck has 5 more picks than Dalton does.  The numbers suggests he benefits greatly playing against AFC South foes.  

[djs7685]

(11-04-2015, 03:30 PM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: Andrew Luck's AFC South Stats:

Games  19
Cmp % 59.6
Yards 4,828
Yds/Attempt 7.45
TD 34
INT 13

Andrew Luck vs the Rest of the NFL:

Games 35
Cmp % 57.5
Yards 9,766
Yds/Attempt 6.86
TD 65
INT 42

In 10 less games played against the rest of the league, Luck has 5 more picks than Dalton does.  The numbers suggests he benefits greatly playing against AFC South foes.  

It's not like his numbers go entirely into the shitter against the rest of the league though. He's always thrown way too many picks. He's much more down to earth against the rest of the league compared to the division, I agree with that.

[WhoDeyWho]

(11-04-2015, 03:35 PM)djs7685 Wrote: It's not like his numbers go entirely into the shitter against the rest of the league though. He's always thrown way too many picks. He's much more down to earth against the rest of the league compared to the division, I agree with that.

They might not go into the "shitter", but a guy as lauded as he is surely shouldn't have more picks than Dalton in 10 less games played right?  Dalton gets criticized harshly for the picks that he throws.  

Luck is all world against the AFC South, and quite average against everyone else.  

[*rfaulk34*]

(11-04-2015, 03:13 PM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: Almost half of his picks have come in the 26 games versus the division.  His numbers are impacted negatively by playing in the AFC North.

I think they're on the way up though. Division games, as tough as they are, i think he'll continue to improve on the numbers.

[*rfaulk34*]

(11-04-2015, 03:17 PM)GodFather Wrote: That being said, I would take Andrew Luck any day of the week over him and you'd be a fool not too. Luck is playing now with multiple fractured ribs. His team's management also seems to be a complete mess.

Sounds like the typical Andrew Luck hype/excuse machine. 

He holds the ball too long and makes his team look worse. Not the other way around.

[djs7685]

(11-04-2015, 04:00 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Sounds like the typical Andrew Luck hype/excuse machine. 

He holds the ball too long and makes his team look worse. Not the other way around.

I'm not ready to write the guy off yet, but yeeeeeesh does he look like shit this year or what!

[PDub80]

(11-04-2015, 02:29 PM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: Ben Roethlisberger SB Winning Line:

9 cmp 21 att 42.86 cmp%  yards 123 TD 0 Int 2 Rating 22.6

I agreeing with you.

[PDub80]

(11-04-2015, 01:36 PM)djs7685 Wrote: Teams "beating up on each other" within the division doesn't mean so much when you're talking purely about W/L record because every division plays the same amount of division games per year. If you subtract the 6 division games from every team, you're going to end up with the exact same W/L percentage for each division at the end of the year. This is just simple math.

Why are you asking about the top 3 of a division, you realize they have 4 teams in them, right? Can't just pretend the Browns don't exist to strengthen your argument.

The past 10 years have zero relevance to Andy's career, only the last 4 mean anything to this conversation. The AFCN has been the 2nd best division in football for the first 4 years of Andy's career, and looks like it's going to be weak this year due to the Ravens not being as good as advertised and the Steelers suffering some injuries and suspensions.

I don't know why it's so important for some people to think the AFCN plays football in a much different way than the rest of the league. They don't, but yes, they've been the best division in the conference in the last 4 year span. If you look purely at W/L records, they aren't miles ahead of the competition though. We have some perennial contenders, but a lot of people waaaay over exaggerate how great the AFCN really is.

- My point about the three top teams is that they are so strong that the Browns stinking doesn't matter. Every year every division has a crappy team. Rarely are there three contenders in a division and the AFCN has 3 viable teams that could win the division every year and has for a long time.

- The continuance of the strength of teams in the AFCN over a prolonged period of time, and Andy Dalton's ability to deal with that from the very first day of his career does, in fact, speak volumes towards this topic. At least, IMO.

- They don't play football in a different way. You're right. I disagree and think that the AFCN is waaaaay underrated.

- I will try to find the time to look up the W/L records of the AFCN teams outside of the division to see how they do against the rest of the league. I am guessing it is incredibly strong over Marvin's tenure.

[BengalChris]

(11-03-2015, 09:08 PM)Whacked Wrote: Luck = Major regression

Colin = Just got benched

AD = 4 playoffs in a row and 7-0 and leading the NFL in a few QB categories

YO AD Haters ....... Where u at?

/Thread

Luck is the best of those three and most people can see that. He's injured and doesn't have a lot to work with this year.

Kaepnernick was and always has been a system specific QB playing on a really deep team. Now that the team's talent has thinned and the system has changed, we see the real Kaepnernick. I personally have always ranked him below Dalton.

Dalton does not equal playoffs. The Bengals have a really good team and if it weren't for that really good team, Dalton wouldn't have made a single playoff. He could have been drafted by the Jags and he'd be backing up somewhere else in the league by now hoping the starter gets benched just like Gabbert.

[J24]

Luck is the best out of three by far. Yeah he is struggling this season but his supporting cast is not very good and he is asked to do more than any other QB in the league.

[WhoDeyWho]

(11-04-2015, 04:25 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Luck is the best of those three and most people can see that. He's injured and doesn't have a lot to work with this year.

Kaepnernick was and always has been a system specific QB playing on a really deep team. Now that the team's talent has thinned and the system has changed, we see the real Kaepnernick. I personally have always ranked him below Dalton.

Dalton does not equal playoffs. The Bengals have a really good team and if it weren't for that really good team, Dalton wouldn't have made a single playoff. He could have been drafted by the Jags and he'd be backing up somewhere else in the league by now hoping the starter gets benched just like Gabbert.

Luck has Frank Gore, TY Hilton, Donte Moncrief, Coby Fleener, DeWayne Allen and Andre Johnson.  These are pretty much the same skill players he had at the beginning of the season when they were picked to go to the SB.  

[WhoDeyWho]

(11-04-2015, 04:39 PM)J24 Wrote: Luck is the best out of three by far. Yeah he is struggling this season but his supporting cast is not very good and he is asked to do more than any other QB in the league.

What exactly is he asked to do that isn't asked of other QBs in this league? 

[McC]

Now Luck will have a new OC, so that will buffer him from criticism for the rest of the year.

He can do great, extraordinary things and he can do really boneheaded things, all in the same series.

He suffers from the cannon for an arm, I can throw it in any window syndrome.

[BengalChris]

(11-04-2015, 04:45 PM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: Luck has Frank Gore, TY Hilton, Donte Moncrief, Coby Fleener, DeWayne Allen and Andre Johnson.  These are pretty much the same skill players he had at the beginning of the season when they were picked to go to the SB.  

No no no. Not even close. Johnson and Gore are way over the hill and expect this to be there last stop. Fleener versus Eifert? Not close really. Indy's OL isn't nearly as good as ours and neither is their defense. Not to mention that Luck is playing with cracked ribs.

Yes, it's a down year for Luck no doubt, but the team around him isn't nearly what we have in Cinci.

I'm not knocking Dalton's year. It is a great year so far. But OP was a ridiculous in that is assigns Bengals success to one player, ignoring the quality of this team. It was no more a valid opinion than saying Dalton has no weapons. This whole thread needs to go to the Dalton mega thread.

[jj22]

Lucks supporting cast not good? Maybe, but Dalton's wasn't either last season and he still got 10 (should have been 11) wins. This excuse is good for other qb's, but the National media and many fans never gave Dalton a pass for his 2014 year for it.... Let's not give other qb's excuses for poor play that we don't give our own. Folks tend to do that way to much.