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(03-23-2021, 04:37 PM)Fulcher_33 Wrote: I am 100% on board with hoping that is the case. Nothing would be more exciting for us to see Hubbard shine
No doubt, awesome dude. One of my favorite Bengals. We all know he will work his ass off to become that elite pass rusher.
He has had some bad injuries hold him back and he still was named the best outside run stopping End in the NFL.
Who knows how much he ups the rest of his game THIS offseason...
Sure will help having Reader, Ogunjobi and Hendrickson I bet.
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No I don't think we improved but I think we're only marginally worse.
To me we still need a Franchise CB, Franchise Edge, and a Franchise 3T. Along with a franchise IOL, RT, and TE on offense.
When I look at the Defense I only see Bates as a franchise piece. We have a lot of solid players but know one special right now. Would like to see us add a couple of elite players in the draft.
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(03-23-2021, 02:47 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: On a scale from -5 to 5 (with -5 being a major downgrade, 5 being a major upgrade and 0 being a lateral move), this is how I would grade our free agents:
Riley Reiff vs Bobby Hart: +4
Chidobe Awuzie vs William Jackson III: -2
Mike Hilton vs Mackensie Alexander: +2
Larry Ogunjobi vs Geno Atkins: +2 (when compared to 2020 Atkins)
Trey Hendrickson vs Carl Lawson: -2
So, a total upgrade of +4 points over 5 replaced players. If we assume Atkins recovers in 2021, then maybe that one is a wash in that regard.
We lost Green and have not replaced him, but at 18m dollars, I would consider getting rid of him a net gain in 2020, as he cost exponentially more than he was producing.
We didn't get significantly better, but I am comfortable saying we got marginally better, with the massive upgrade being at RT.
Now, we still don't have a new guard signed, so if we don't re-sign Spain and then roll with Michael Jordan at LG, then that would be a -3 or -4, so we'd end up getting worse, but I think re-signing Spain is probably our worst case scenario at this point.
The problem I have is that when you do a 1:1 swap, even if the player is somewhat better, you've done nothing about the depth. Injuries were a huge excuse/reason for failure last year, and not addressing depth is concerning to me, as it sets them up to be in potentially the same spot as last year.
Also, don't forget that we've let other players go that were not replaced in FA. Thereby meaning they'll be late pickups or will a replacement drafted. I think it's fair to see the roster at the end of the day could be an improvement over last year's, but I don't see it head and shoulders better, and the issue of depth has not been addressed at all to this point.
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I would finally say yes, but not only because of Reiff.
The defensive moves were lateral moves. Although I do have some confidence that Waynes, Hilton, Aibzi and Apple will be more durable than last year.
The offense should be much, much better if Reiff plays the way he normally does.
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(03-23-2021, 05:35 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: The defensive moves were lateral moves.
No they were not., unless you are assuming that Geno was going to return at 2018 form.
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I think we are worse off if you just look at FA moves, but only marginally. Considering guys returning to play who missed huge chunks/all of last year (Reader, Waynes, Hubbard, Tupou, etc) we'll be better. And FA is not over yet. Nor is the draft.
QB = up. Healthy Burrow. Allen > Finley.
RB = up. Same cast. Healthy Mixon.
WR = down. No additions. Green, Ross, & Erickson gone.
TE = up. CJ OK is more up than losing Carter. IF CJ is OK
OL = up. Reiff > Hart. Spain + XSF = Jordan not starting
DT = up. Reader, Tupou & Wren back. Jobi > 2020 Geno.
DE = down. Lawson > Hendrickson. Close, though.
LB = down. Bynes gone.
CB = Up. WJ3 > Waynes. But Awuzie > Sims. Hilton > Alexander. + Apple.
S = down. Smidge. Williams gone.
P & LS & KR = same. Huber, Harris, B. Wilson
PK & PR =???. Hopefully Randy & Erickson upgrades coming.
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(03-23-2021, 06:56 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: I think we are worse off if you just look at FA moves, but only marginally. Considering guys returning to play who missed huge chunks/all of last year (Reader, Waynes, Hubbard, Tupou, etc) we'll be better. And FA is not over yet. Nor is the draft.
I think it is worth noting we've positioned ourselves so we aren't desperate at any specific position in the draft (though we absolutely do need to draft some front 7 defensive players). So even though it may be a push so far, we're poised to improve before the season begins.
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(03-23-2021, 06:56 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: I think we are worse off if you just look at FA moves,
I don't see how you can say that.
Ogunjobi is a HUGE upgrade at DT unless you think Geno is going to return to 2018 form.
Hart is not the pure garbage some people claimed, but Reif, an established starting LEFT tackle, is a big upgrade at RT.
Hendrickson's production is equal to Lawson and he actually can stay healthy.
The two CBs might be a small downgrade, but nothing compare to the improvements we have made at DT and OT.
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(03-23-2021, 07:17 PM)BoomerFan Wrote: I think it is worth noting we've positioned ourselves so we aren't desperate at any specific position in the draft (though we absolutely do need to draft some front 7 defensive players). So even though it may be a push so far, we're poised to improve before the season begins.
I would agree this is a real possibility. There is still FA left and the draft. But since the topic of the thread was "today" I responded based on that metric. "Tomorrow" is a different conversation.
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I think way better.. We're bringing in guys with better mindsets.
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(03-23-2021, 08:07 PM)Nati#1 Wrote: I think way better.. We're bringing in guys with better mindsets.
What are you talking about?
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(03-23-2021, 05:07 PM)J24 Wrote: No I don't think we improved but I think we're only marginally worse.
To me we still need a Franchise CB, Franchise Edge, and a Franchise 3T. Along with a franchise IOL, RT, and TE on offense.
When I look at the Defense I only see Bates as a franchise piece. We have a lot of solid players but know one special right now. Would like to see us add a couple of elite players in the draft.
Good luck with that.......
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Just from a broad perspective, I'm going to say that the Bengals are better now than before free agency.
On Defense, they got younger and picked up guys that are more scheme specific. None of the corners are "headliners", but they are all good zone corners, while they guys they replaced were stronger in press man. Some call Hendrickson for Lawson a wash, but I call it a slight upgrade. Hendrickson is a finisher that plays to the whistle, remains patient when the play isn't his from the jump. Ogungubi is younger and has shown that he can get sacks, his run defense is lacking, hopefully he's used appropriately in rotation to get the most of what he offers.
Offensively, the OL improved slightly with Reiff over Hart, signing Spain back could also prove beneficial with a new OL coach, and a full offeseason for Spain to gel with the unit before games begin. I see the Bengals drafting OL in 2 of the first 3 picks. Losing Green and Erickson, while only signing back Mike Thomas is a bit alarming, but I still hold out that they are going to sign a decent veteran role player to fill the void. Maybe Kenny Stills or Chris Conley would be nice. Still, I see the Bengals drafting 2 WR in this draft, just maybe not early. Backfield didn't really need much attention, but signing Perine back was a plus, in my opinion.
Volson is meh, but I like him, and he has far exceeded my expectations
-Frank Booth 1/9/23
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(03-23-2021, 08:40 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Just from a broad perspective, I'm going to say that the Bengals are better now than before free agency.
On Defense, they got younger and picked up guys that are more scheme specific. None of the corners are "headliners", but they are all good zone corners, while they guys they replaced were stronger in press man. Some call Hendrickson for Lawson a wash, but I call it a slight upgrade. Hendrickson is a finisher that plays to the whistle, remains patient when the play isn't his from the jump. Ogungubi is younger and has shown that he can get sacks, his run defense is lacking, hopefully he's used appropriately in rotation to get the most of what he offers.
Offensively, the OL improved slightly with Reiff over Hart, signing Spain back could also prove beneficial with a new OL coach, and a full offeseason for Spain to gel with the unit before games begin. I see the Bengals drafting OL in 2 of the first 3 picks. Losing Green and Erickson, while only signing back Mike Thomas is a bit alarming, but I still hold out that they are going to sign a decent veteran role player to fill the void. Maybe Kenny Stills or Chris Conley would be nice. Still, I see the Bengals drafting 2 WR in this draft, just maybe not early. Backfield didn't really need much attention, but signing Perine back was a plus, in my opinion.
Spot on!
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(03-23-2021, 07:17 PM)BoomerFan Wrote: I think it is worth noting we've positioned ourselves so we aren't desperate at any specific position in the draft (though we absolutely do need to draft some front 7 defensive players). So even though it may be a push so far, we're poised to improve before the season begins.
While I agree were most likely going to improve it's because we're getting starters back from injury and burrow has a year under his belt now not some magical front office maneuvers.
The front 7 on d is in better shape than oline. We are still very desperate for oline help. Reiff is on one year deal so we still need to draft 3 interior guys and a tackle. That could be a serviceable oline with at least some depth if we are able to hit on the picks. We still need and edge guy a dt and wr as well. There is no way we can fill all our big holes with draft. If we draft a few olineman and they don't work out the oline is going to be pitiful for years to come.
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I think it is hard to say one way or another. That said, I don't like the fact you can't say definitively, 100% it has gotten better. On such a bad team, that is worrisome.
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(03-23-2021, 08:28 PM)sandwedge Wrote: Good luck with that.......
Don't ruin my dreams
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(03-23-2021, 08:19 PM)bfine32 Wrote: When did FA end?
Yeah I don’t think we’re done yet.
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