The offensive heading into 2021

[Nicomo Cosca]

(04-05-2021, 12:58 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Then convince yourself that Higgins and Boyd are good then ask yourself who was the #3 WR for the last 10 super bowl winners

Did the last 10 Super Bowl winners all exclusively run 11 personnel?

[Murdock2420]

(04-05-2021, 01:00 AM)BobJohnson55 Wrote: Them are very successful teams that dont draft o lineman in the first or second every year,they even put udfa's on the line. I can't think of any all pro line team that were high picks except maybe the cowboys that one year they had Pollack. And how did that play out they lost their 1st round playoff game,then that line didn't even stick together. 

The guy we wanted from the Patriots was like a 3rd round pick. And its probably not just them two teams. I bet I could do research on every team and they dont have all first or 2nd rounders. 

To be fair, most teams don't have the sad state of a scouting department that the Bengals have.

If the team invested in scouting and player development like other teams in the league do, we wouldn't be in the situation where we have so many holes and not enough picks to fill them.

This team just doesn't do well at finding gems unless they are guys that no one else will touch like Chris Henry was, and Burfict was. 

Or for some reason the 2012 draft where we had Iloka and Marvin Jones in the 5th round

[BobJohnson55]

(04-05-2021, 01:11 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: To be fair, most teams don't have the sad state of a scouting department that the Bengals have.

If the team invested in scouting and player development like other teams in the league do, we wouldn't be in the situation where we have so many holes and not enough picks to fill them.

This team just doesn't do well at finding gems unless they are guys that no one else will touch like Chris Henry was, and Burfict was. 

Yeah I agree,it's sad we have spent first round picks on o line and none have been great in forever,even Andre Smith was not great when we had marvin. Billy price ,Cedric oboogie, Fisher all 1st round busts. Drafted Kevin zeitler but he got paid elsewhere. 

[Nicomo Cosca]

(04-05-2021, 01:15 AM)BobJohnson55 Wrote: Yeah I agree,it's sad we have spent first round picks on o line and none have been great in forever,even Andre Smith was not great when we had marvin. Billy price ,Cedric oboogie, Fisher all 1st round busts. Drafted Kevin zeitler but he got paid elsewhere. 

Fisher was 2nd round.

[Murdock2420]

(04-05-2021, 01:15 AM)BobJohnson55 Wrote: Yeah I agree,it's sad we have spent first round picks on o line and none have been great in forever,even Andre Smith was not great when we had marvin. Billy price ,Cedric oboogie, Fisher all 1st round busts. Drafted Kevin zeitler but he got paid elsewhere. 

Fisher was a 2nd but your point is still valid.

As to Andre Smith, he wasn't great but he certainly was solid for many years and if he was in his prime, would be an upgrade over most of the guys on the current line.

[BobJohnson55]

(04-05-2021, 01:17 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Fisher was a 2nd but your point is still valid.

As to Andre Smith, he wasn't great but he certainly was solid for many years and if he was in his prime, would be an upgrade over most of the guys on the current line.

Ok yeah,seems like a 1st because he was a high 2nd I think? Or he was seen as 1st round talent. One of them . And yeah andre Smith was solid,but for a top ten pick he wasn't that great. Not seen as a lovable Bengals player here. 

[Murdock2420]

(04-05-2021, 01:22 AM)BobJohnson55 Wrote: Ok yeah,seems like a 1st because he was a high 2nd I think? Or he was seen as 1st round talent. One of them . And yeah andre Smith was solid,but for a top ten pick he wasn't that great. Not seen as a lovable Bengals player here. 

I think Fisher is so memorable because of the fact we went back to back at tackle while Whit was still on the team. Was a real middle finger towards a great one.

With Andre, he was disliked due to the start of his time here. First was the man boobs running photo, followed by a really lengthy and ugly hold-out situation with his contract. He missed all of training camp and several pre-season games if I remember correctly. Then, right after he signs his contract, he hurt his foot in some drill and ended up missing the start of the season.

People just were annoyed with him from the start after that. 

Then 2nd season, he was out of shape and got hurt again. So people just gave up on him.

Funny thing is, his 3rd season in the league he was a legit RT. In 2011, 2012 and 13 he was a monster on that line with Whit at LT.

He just had injury issues early, then missed time with concussion issues later on, and then bounced around the league.

For 3 seasons though, he was damn near elite, but that is over-shadowed by the lack of a long term career. 

[BritishBengal]

Zac, Anarumo and Callahan being out of their depth as coaches worries me almost more than any lack of player talent at this point.

[NATI BENGALS]

(04-05-2021, 03:11 AM)BritishBengal Wrote: Zac, Anarumo and Callahan being out of their depth as coaches worries me almost more than any lack of player talent at this point.

Fingers crossed they make progress and improve in their jobs. I think improvement is a lock to happen. I don’t think it is far fetched to say a young head coach could improve after getting some experience. I don’t think it is obscene to think a guy new to being a DC and new to a division who had some uncooperative veteran players could make some improvement in his 3rd year after bringing in his own guys and having everybody buy in.

[NATI BENGALS]

(04-05-2021, 01:03 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Did the last 10 Super Bowl winners all exclusively run 11 personnel?

Watch the second game of the year last year. Before Uzi got hurt we were far from a 11 personnel exclusive team.

TEs are not instant impact players. Sample was the 2nd player drafted under ZT. He is entering his 3rd year. He will be o the field a lot. Uzi was above him on the depth chart last year. And is being paid a good amount. He will be on the field a lot. Gio and Mixon are both good players in the pass game.

If a team has a lot of short DBs Tate should be a major part of the game plan. Mike Thomas is entering his 2nd year in the system and obviously is liked by the head coach. He caught Burrows second ever TD pass iirc. Uzi caught his first.

And we are not an 11 personnel exclusive team.

[BritishBengal]

(04-05-2021, 03:45 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Fingers crossed they make progress and improve in their jobs. I think improvement is a lock to happen. I don’t think it is far fetched to say a young head coach could improve after getting some experience. I don’t think it is obscene to think a guy new to being a DC and new to a division who had some uncooperative veteran players could make some improvement in his 3rd year after bringing in his own guys and having everybody buy in.

I agree. That said I'd much rather have a balance within the coaching. We currently have a very inexperienced HC, OC and DC. I have no problem having a young HC but I think they should be supported by at least a few veteran coordinators. 

[*SHRacerX*]

(04-04-2021, 12:12 PM)impactplaya Wrote: The Bengals offense in 2020 was headlined by Joe Burrow injury, oline injuries,lack of a vertical attack and not enough red zone TDs.
I thought it was a offense that had issues finding a identity
But I did find some things the offense can build on going into 2021

In the last 4 games of the year the Bengals offense generated
More than 100 yds on the ground.
For the year they had 8 games where the offense produced
100 yds or more rushing.
I don't have the stats in front of me but I bet in the games
They won in 2020,the Bengals had success running the ball
Now you throw upgrades on the oline so far.
Dont shy away from the run, use it, protect your franchise QB with it

One of the best ways to keep a QB upright is having a chain moving
Rushing attack.
You mentally and physically wear down a front 7.
All of a sudden DEs are lacking that burst off the edge.
Running the ball also negates the twist and turn
Dlines use on passing downs cause they are gassed
Worn out.

Samje Perrine is a important piece heading into this year
IMO he is a X factor nobody talks about.
He is the 1st big back the Bengals have had in awhile
That can also catch the ball make guys miss

I hope ZT and BC actually incorporate more presnap shifts and
Motions this year. Their formation predictability in regards
To down and distance just made the defenses job easier.

This offense can really be great in 2021 with more boundry speed
More imagination and not being afraid to lean on the running game
Impose your will on the defense

Even in games where the rushing attack wasn't initially stuffed, the Bengals would abandon the rush on their own.  That was my biggest criticism in last year's offense with ZT.  I am not saying you become a predictable, rush on first and 2nd down, and then throw on third and 4 or greater, but there needs to be a better balance.  It wasn't always that we were behind. 

Was there a specific rationale for this?   Getting Burrow exposed to as many situations as possible to let him learn NFL-windows in his rookie season?  I doubt it, but it almost looked that way.  Granted, Mixon getting injured sure didn't help matters.  The offensive line as assembled last year was more capable in run blocking than pass blocking and the Bengals leaned the way of the pass almost two to one....sometimes worse. 

This kind of goes back to the earlier discussion about needing to play more 12 personnel, and while I would totally support this, it would need a HUGE haul to slide back and risk not getting Chase or Sewell (and I am in Chase's camp).  If they were offered a haul to trade back and still got Pitts and planned to grab another TE later in the draft (Quinten Morris, Please) then fine.  But it better be a haul and it still better yield Pitts as this team needs playmakers.  Going about things this way (and I don't think they will, but hey, it is draft month) would certainly go a long way to helping establish the rushing attack.  

[Nicomo Cosca]

(04-05-2021, 03:57 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: And we are not an 11 personnel exclusive team.

I’d be interested in seeing the percentages.

[fredtoast]

(04-04-2021, 11:27 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Gee I wonder why you picked the oddly random 400 receptions as your benchmark (probably so you could exclude guys like Tyreek Hill). Never change, Fred. Lol

Gee, I wonder why Nico decided to pic at nits that don't change anything about my comment.  Even if I include Hill The Bengals still have done better than the Chiefs.

But some people would rather squabble over something meaningless than address the actual point I was making.  The exact number does not change the fact that the Bengals have 2 of the top 5 in receptions.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(04-05-2021, 12:03 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Gee, I wonder why Nico decided to pic at nits that don't change anything about my comment.  Even if I include Hill The Bengals still have done better than the Chiefs.

But some people would rather squabble over something meaningless than address the actual point I was making.  The exact number does not change the fact that the Bengals have 2 of the top 5 in receptions.

Great, we found a couple good late round WR’s 9 years ago. That certainly gives me full confidence in our ability to do it again. Never mind all the Josh Malone, Cody Core’s since then that suggest otherwise.

[Bilbo Saggins]

I think that the idea of a "number one receiver" is a trope and that you don't need one of those types of guys to win.  Was Edelman a number one receiver?  Would anyone have cared about him had he played with an average QB and an average HC?  Who was the number 1 for the Eagles when they won a SB with Foles?  More weapons would be nice, but only so many teams in the league can have a top 10 WR.  The constant that I see with teams like the Pats, Chiefs, Saints, etc. is that each and every snap that they run on offense is aided by a cohesive offensive line.  And they are not "no name" players either.  Teams like that spend cap space and draft capital.  They keep spending it even after they draft busts or underwhelming players who have to play G or move to backup positions.  More weapons would be great - especially a role player who can run great vertical routes and maybe a role player who can be a jitterbug as a second slot guy.  The idea that you absolutely NEED a Julio Jones or a Calvin Johnson in order to win is just wrong imho.

[Luvnit2]

(04-05-2021, 12:21 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Great, we found a couple good late round WR’s 9 years ago. That certainly gives me full confidence in our ability to do it again. Never mind all the Josh Malone, Cody Core’s since then that suggest otherwise.

Cody Core was 6th round pick. That is late round, so why is he in any discussion. He was drafted to play special teams and they hoped he would develop into a solid WR. He did not, but was very good on ST's. I don't recall too many players drafted after round 5 who were not picked to play ST's early in their careers.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(04-05-2021, 12:53 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Cody Core was 6th round pick. That is late round, so why is he in any discussion. He was drafted to play special teams and they hoped he would develop into a solid WR. He did not, but was very good on ST's. I don't recall too many players drafted after round 5 who were not picked to play ST's early in their careers.

Because we’re discussing Marvin Jones who was a 5th round pick. I don’t see a huge difference between 5th round and 6th round. It’s all a crapshoot once you get that late in the draft.

[impactplaya]

I hope the Bengals can draft a real playmaker that will take
Double teams away from Boyd and Higgins.
We need a WR that can just absolutely torch a defense.

[*rfaulk34*]

(04-05-2021, 10:48 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I’d be interested in seeing the percentages.

They're the #1 team at 76%.