Bernard released

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(04-07-2021, 08:07 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Considering Geno's age I don't think he will ever return to his 2018 form.  But if he is 100% recovered I would still like to sign him back at a reduced price.

As for Ogunjobi he might just be my favorite free agent.

Last year he played 60% of the snaps on the league's #3 rush defense and had as many TFLs as Sheldon Richardson.

He was making a ton of huge plays in 2018 and 2019.  Over those two seasons among all DTs he ranked 5th in TFLs (20), 6th in solo tackles (68), 11th in QB hits (28), and 12th in sacks (11).

This guy is only 26 years old and has no major injury issues.  He is a great athlete who blew up the combine when he placed first among DTs in both the broad jump and vertical, 3rd in the three-cone, 4th in bench, and 5th in the forty.

I like the Ogunjobi signing (despite Burrow getting him to jump offsides at least twice in short yardage situations allowing them to convert last season.)

But, Geno could still be on the team right now and they would still be under the cap. And if the Bengals actually needed the cap space to sign a free agent or extend a veteran they could cut him before Week 1. Geno’s dead money cap hit is $5.7M. What figure do you feel comfortable with bringing him back combined with his dead money?

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(04-07-2021, 08:10 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I am confused. How many games have we won the past 2 years? A lousy team is supposed to continue the same path and expect better results????

Let’s not drag poor coaching into this, too. Although the same people who signed Gio to that contract also hired the head coach with a winning percentage lower than Dave Shula’s.

Quote:You think Geno played up to his contract in 2019 and 2020? Or did he end up being a mediocre DT (I know some due to injury but who cares, he was paid 100% for those very bad years). Gio is just a very bad contract. It is stupid to pay RB's more than your starting OG's and center.

Did Mixon live up to his contract? Let’s cut him, too. Better yet, let’s get in a time machine a stop them from re-signing Mixon.

Yes, it is stupid to under value IOL and over pay RBs. Yet, that’s exactly what the front office did. It’s also stupid to cut players under contract when you have over $20M to spend on free agents or re-sign veterans and no immediate need for the $2M savings they would have realized if Bernard took 50% less.

[Shake n Blake]

(04-07-2021, 03:34 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Gio was a solid pick for the Bengals coming out of college.. he was projected ahead of Bell and had a solid start to his career, main difference early between him was how the Bengals used Gio and their decision to go more 2 back sets.  

Look at their rookie year... Bell was the main back in Pitts and if you look at their overall stats, Gio performed just as good , maybe a bit better even with having Ellis gaining over 700 yards, then Hill comes in shares time and gains over 1,000.  Give Gio 200 to 220 carries , more WR touches instead of 150-60 carries his first three years and he would have been one in top 10 backs in the NFL.  

He couldn't handle more carries. We tried that one year. He didn't look as good as the unquestioned starter, and then he got hurt. It was a flop and that's why it never happened again.

Gio was solid in the role we played him in, but people who suggest he could've been more are overrating Gio and not quite remembering how it actually went down.

[Shake n Blake]

(04-08-2021, 01:35 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Did Mixon live up to his contract? Let’s cut him, too. Better yet, let’s get in a time machine a stop them from re-signing Mixon.

Yes, it is stupid to under value IOL and over pay RBs. Yet, that’s exactly what the front office did. It’s also stupid to cut players under contract when you have over $20M to spend on free agents or re-sign veterans and no immediate need for the $2M savings they would have realized if Bernard took 50% less.

Mixon is barely into his contract so there'd be way too much dead money. I agree on Gio though. The problem is not that we cut him, it's the timing of the cut. Had we done this a month ago, we could've used the cash. As it stands, we don't need the cap space so there was little sense in cutting him beyond saving money strictly for profit. Unless they have another signing or two up their sleeve.

FWIW, Perrine was fantastic last year and deserves more snaps. So I'm not too concerned about our RBs.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(04-08-2021, 01:10 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: What happens if Mixon gets hurt during training camp or preseason?

He's all but guaranteed to get at least a little hurt at some point. He's missed multiple games in 3 of his 4 seasons. Maybe all but guaranteed is a strong phrase, but it is highly likely that Mixon will miss at least a game or two.

(04-08-2021, 01:55 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: He couldn't handle more carries. We tried that one year. He didn't look as good as the unquestioned starter, and then he got hurt. It was a flop and that's why it never happened again.

Gio was solid in the role we played him in, but people who suggest he could've been more are overrating Gio and not quite remembering how it actually went down.

I never expected that Gio could be a bellcow back or anything, but the Bengals did indeed fail to get the most out of Gio's skill set. I think Jay and Hue came the closest, and everyone after him just utterly failed outright. 

With his pass blocking and pass receiving skills, he could have easily put up Sproles type receiving numbers, but with the size to handle the 150-170 rushes that Sproles couldn't.

I really do think that Gio's potential under a really good OC was just an ever so slightly worse Alvin Kamara, which is still a really good football player.

Gio under the only NFL-caliber OCs he has ever had (3 years):
492 rushes/2,105 yards (4.3 YPC)/12 TDs
148 catches/1,335 yards (9.0 AVG)/5 TDs

Alvin Kamara under Sean Payton (First 3 years):
485 rushes/2,408 yards (5.0 YPC)/27 TDs
243 catches/2,068 yards (8.5 YPC)/10 TDs

Can only wonder what kind of career Gio would have had if he had been drafted by someone like Payton or Reid.

[Daddy-O]

(04-07-2021, 11:23 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I am shocked by some of these responses. I thought even the Gio fans thought he was overpaid.

Mixons cap hit went from less than 4 million last year to about 8 million this year. That made it extremely difficult to keep Gio at over 4 million.

Before Mixon was injured Gio was only playing about 20% of the snaps.

Agree.  Had he played for the Steelers and got released many on this board would be saying how smart the Steeler front office is to move on from aging players.  Go figure.

[Schmitbuck]

(04-08-2021, 12:00 AM)DrunkHuddles Wrote: Why would he come back when the point of asking for release was due to being asked to cut salary?

I made the comment before the info came out about Gio asking for his release so it's unlikely given that information. 

But players getting released and re-signed at a cheaper salary happens all the time. Most recent example is Carlos Dunlap re-signing with Seattle. 

[Big Boss]

I understand the financial logic of this move but it still hurts.

[Rubekahn29]

Would feel a lot more worth it if they picked up a couple of the remaining FA that could provide depth, experience.

[Rubekahn29]

(04-08-2021, 08:50 AM)Schmitbuck Wrote: I made the comment before the info came out about Gio asking for his release so it's unlikely given that information. 

But players getting released and re-signed at a cheaper salary happens all the time. Most recent example is Carlos Dunlap re-signing with Seattle. 

It would likely depend on what he gets in open market. If he gets more than he would get here, then he’s gone. However, if no one will pay him much, he may not see it worth it picking up and moving. But I see him being a big benefit to a contender like even a Tampa.

[Bengalitis]

If I was Burrow, I would look back at film and count how many times Gio saved his arse and insist he get an excellent blocking RB because he is definitely gonna need one, Mixon is a great running back but his achilles is blocking.

[fredtoast]

(04-08-2021, 02:01 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Mixon is barely into his contract so there'd be way too much dead money. I agree on Gio though. The problem is not that we cut him, it's the timing of the cut. Had we done this a month ago, we could've used the cash. As it stands, we don't need the cap space so there was little sense in cutting him beyond saving money strictly for profit. Unless they have another signing or two up their sleeve.

I don't know how many times I have to repeat this.

The Bengals roll over the unused cap space.  This is not about profit.

The fact that the Bengals roll over cap space has allowed them to spend OVER the league cap at times in the last few years.

[fredtoast]

(04-08-2021, 09:06 AM)Bengalitis Wrote: If I was Burrow, I would look back at film and count how many times Gio saved his arse and insist he get an excellent blocking RB because he is definitely gonna need one, Mixon is a great running back but his achilles is blocking.

When Mixon was healthy it could not have been many times because Gio was only playing 10-15 snaps a game.

[Bengalitis]

(04-08-2021, 09:15 AM)fredtoast Wrote: When Mixon was healthy it could not have been many times because Gio was only playing 10-15 snaps a game.

It will become more apparent this season, you'll see.

[*SHRacerX*]

(04-07-2021, 11:22 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: AJ, Geno, and now Gio...all in the same offseason. Feels really weird.

Who is even the longest tenured Bengal now? Hopkins?

Gotta be Huber?

[Luvnit2]

(04-08-2021, 01:10 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: I need to correct my last statement. He wouldn’t have made $4.8M if he wasn’t cut as you stated, but you are correct his cap hit would have been $4.8M if he wasn’t cut.


I’m not going to defend the front office’s stupid decisions to under value IOL and over pay RBs. You’re just reinforcing the point they make bad decisions.

My point is they don’t need to save $4.1M today when they already had over $20M in cap space unless there is a plan on how to use the additional savings. And I don’t see any plan.

What happens if Mixon gets hurt during training camp or preseason? Do you feel comfortable with Perrine as the starter? This isn’t a case of the Bengals wanting to move on. This is a case where the Bengals still wanted Bernard, but wanted a home town discount in the middle of his contract. So if Mixon does get hurt and Perrine has to start instead of Bernard it’s because the Bengals probably wanted to play Bernard $2M instead of $4M. So this boils down to $2M. Who are the Bengals going to sign that is going to upgrade a starter for $2M? They could have held onto Bernard until before a week 1 and still realized the same cap savings if needed.

I don't think this is an accurate statement. The Bengals want to pay him his 2021 market value. I don't think that is 4.1 million. We will see soon enough when a team signs him his market value, he will take the best deal he can get and not go to a team for less money for a chance to win a Super Bowl. He may test the waters and find the Bengals offer was the best and comeback. Time will tell if Bengals were correct to cut bait for 4.1 million.

[*SHRacerX*]

(04-07-2021, 11:41 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I really hope they use this cap space to front load Jessie Bates and/or Sam Hubbard. That would allow us to keep them around and affordable for a few more years, which would be a nice development if they don't want to actually fix our Oline XD.

This is the logical place for those dollars, although I am still holding out hope for someone like Kerrigan or Aldon Smith.  

Hubbard, although coming off a disappointing year (largely due to injury), and Bates are cornerstones.  Locking them up now would make a ton of sense, but I really want a veteran pass rusher.  

[BenZoo2]

(04-08-2021, 09:14 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't know how many times I have to repeat this.

The Bengals roll over the unused cap space.  This is not about profit.

The fact that the Bengals roll over cap space has allowed them to spend OVER the league cap at times in the last few years.

Could you provide examples of years they spent over the cap? It seems most years they are among teams in the top 10 in cap space and we get hobspins tales of woes about leaving enough to sign the rookies (mostly legit) and injuries (arbitrary)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[3wt]

Sure this has been said in the thread already, but I just don't understand the need to save money to the extent that we now have to draft someone else in a different position group. Seems like we could have saved this for next year. We have enough needs to cover in the 8 picks we have. And he's a quality back in all 3 phases.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(04-08-2021, 09:06 AM)Bengalitis Wrote: If I was Burrow, I would look back at film and count how many times Gio saved his arse and insist he get an excellent blocking RB because he is definitely gonna need one, Mixon is a great running back but his achilles is blocking.

No it’s not. He’s not as good as Gio at it, but he’s hardly a liability either.