1st time in long time this front office.....

[impactplaya]

Its been a very long time since this front office has been
Able to produce 2 back to back slam dunk draft classes.
The Bengals drafting at best since 2015 has been porous pre
Joe Burrow.
Going off the 1st 3 RDs dating to 2015 this roster has very little
To show for it. Too many busts like Price, Willis, Vigil, and the 2015 draft class have really helped cemented last place finishes.

No matter who the Bengals draft at 5 of the big 3 it will be
The 1st time in along time the Bengals potentially can hit
On 3 1st RD cornerstones ( provided Jonah can stay healthy)
Any kind of revisiting of the playoffs you can trace back potentially
To the 2020 2021 drafts.

[sonofstat]

(04-06-2021, 10:12 PM)impactplaya Wrote: Its been a very long time since this front office has been
Able to produce 2 back to back slam dunk draft classes.
The Bengals drafting at best since 2015 has been porous pre
Joe Burrow.
Going off the 1st 3 RDs dating to 2015 this roster has very little
To show for it. Too many busts like Price, Willis, Vigil, and the 2015 draft class have really helped cemented last place finishes.

No matter who the Bengals draft at 5 of the big 3 it will be
The 1st time in along time the Bengals potentially can hit
On 3 1st RD cornerstones ( provided Jonah can stay healthy)
Any kind of revisiting of the playoffs you can trace back potentially
To the 2020 2021 drafts.

Agreed, its not just about one good draft you need 2/3 in a row where you find ideally 3 quality starters (not just roster filler).

That run of drafts we had from 2009 to 2012/2013 really set us up to be competitive for the much of that decade.

Really need to hit on that first round selection...somehow we always do good with our 2nd round pick but in the years when we consistently did well on first two picks really starts to set things up  (Eifert/Bernard, Green/Dalton, Gresham/Dunlap, Smith/Mauluaga)

[Housh]

(04-07-2021, 07:00 AM)sonofstat Wrote: Agreed, its not just about one good draft you need 2/3 in a row where you find ideally 3 quality starters (not just roster filler).

That run of drafts we had from 2009 to 2012/2013 really set us up to be competitive for the much of that decade.

Really need to hit on that first round selection...somehow we always do good with our 2nd round pick but in the years when we consistently did well on first two picks really starts to set things up  (Eifert/Bernard, Green/Dalton, Gresham/Dunlap, Smith/Mauluaga)

Got curious and looked at our drafts for the last 20 years and it hasn’t been THAT bad. John Ross and Billy Price were picked back to back and the last guys we can label as busts. Before that it’s Akili Smith. I’d even say besides those 3 ALL our first round picks became productive starters. Our second round drafting as you stated have been superb. Rounds 4 and beyond I can’t really identify a glaring lack of production in relevance to other teams.

Our Achilles heel is we don’t draft SUPERSTARS often and if we do they don’t hang around long or get injured. Every team that makes noise in the playoffs have SUPERSTARS. Players that are top 3 in their position. Since 2001 we have Chad Johnson, Andrew Witworth, Geno Atkins, AJ Green, and Jesse Bates. In 20 years to draft only 5 players(6 if you count Carson Palmer) that were top 3 at their position the years they played in Cincy is BAD.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(04-07-2021, 09:36 AM)Housh Wrote: Got curious and looked at our drafts for the last 20 years and it hasn’t been THAT bad.

Last 9 have been pretty awful.

Only 1 Pro Bowler drafted in the last 9 drafts (Eifert, who was only good for 1 year). It's pretty much directly why they are on a 5 season losing streak and 3 straight last place division finishes.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(04-07-2021, 09:36 AM)Housh Wrote: Got curious and looked at our drafts for the last 20 years and it hasn’t been THAT bad. John Ross and Billy Price were picked back to back and the last guys we can label as busts. Before that it’s Akili Smith. I’d even say besides those 3 ALL our first round picks became productive starters. Our second round drafting as you stated have been superb. Rounds 4 and beyond I can’t really identify a glaring lack of production in relevance to other teams.

Our Achilles heel is we don’t draft SUPERSTARS often and if we do they don’t hang around long or get injured. Every team that makes noise in the playoffs have SUPERSTARS. Players that are top 3 in their position. Since 2001 we have Chad Johnson, Andrew Witworth, Geno Atkins, AJ Green, and Jesse Bates. In 20 years to draft only 5 players(6 if you count Carson Palmer) that were top 3 at their position the years they played in Cincy is BAD.

You consider Ogbuehi a productive starter?

[fredtoast]

(04-07-2021, 06:49 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Last 9 have been pretty awful.

Last 9?  Really?  

That would include the 2012 draft that produced Kirkpatrick, Zeitler, Sanu, George Iloka, and Marvin Jones.

2016..William Jackson and Tyler Boyd

2017..Joe Mixon, Carl Lawaon

2018..Hubbard and Bates.

Out of every player taken in that draft Sam Hubbard ranks 3rd in sacks, 4th in QB hits, and 5th in TFL.

And I know you love to trot out your Pro Bowl stats, but last year Bates was PFF's First Team All-Pro Safety, and Second Team All-Pro on the AP team.  Among the 2018 draft selections he ranks 3rd in interceptions, 4th in PDs, and 5th in both tackles and solo tackles.


That still leaves 5 "pretty awful" drafts in the last 9, and that is why the team is struggling.  But you can't call a draft "pretty awful" when you get at least two very good players out of it.

[TJ528]

(04-07-2021, 06:49 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Last 9 have been pretty awful.

Only 1 Pro Bowler drafted in the last 9 drafts (Eifert, who was only good for 1 year). It's pretty much directly why they are on a 5 season losing streak and 3 straight last place division finishes.

There's a reason we're in the situation we're in right now. The team lacks talent and has holes. when you miss on MANY draft picks it creates holes. As I've stated before we've hit on 1 (potentially) OT since 2015 out of 9 OL drafted. You arent going to win many games with drafts like that.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

[jfkbengals]

At least we haven't been as bad as the Jets.

I read the other day that Darnold became the 6th straight 1st round pick they traded away before his first contract came to an end, and the guy before that streak began was straight up released while on his rookie deal. That is 7 first round picks in a row that never made it to a second contract.

[fredtoast]

(04-07-2021, 09:22 PM)jfkbengals Wrote: At least we haven't been as bad as the Jets.

I read the other day that Darnold became the 6th straight 1st round pick they traded away before his first contract came to an end, and the guy before that streak began was straight up released while on his rookie deal.  That is 7 first round picks in a row that never made it to a second contract.

A few years ago when our drafts started going south I was constantly telling people here that "Even the best teams sometimes miss on first round picks".  But the best teams never miss on 3 of 4 like we did with Ogbuehi, Price, and Ross from '15 through '18.

And a lot of team call it a "bust" when they use their first round pick on a guy who just becomes an average middle-of-the-road starter, but we got ZERO from those three.  Add in the fact that until last year we lived by the draft and almost never signed top free agents and those misses absolutely killed this team.

[BobJohnson55]

(04-07-2021, 09:22 PM)jfkbengals Wrote: At least we haven't been as bad as the Jets.

I read the other day that Darnold became the 6th straight 1st round pick they traded away before his first contract came to an end, and the guy before that streak began was straight up released while on his rookie deal.  That is 7 first round picks in a row that never made it to a second contract.

And the jets still won a playoff game before we did 

[jfkbengals]

(04-07-2021, 10:02 PM)BobJohnson55 Wrote: And the jets still won a playoff game before we did 

In our inaugural season.  I don't think anyone ever expects an expansion team to make the postseason, much less win the game.

[fredtoast]

(04-07-2021, 10:02 PM)BobJohnson55 Wrote: And the jets still won a playoff game before we did 

Who gives a shit. 

Bengals fans are the only ones who ignore Super Bowls and regular seasons in order to obsess only over winning one playoff game.

Ask an average NFL fan about which teams have been winning the most in regular seasons and going to Super Bowls and they can tell you.  But almost none will be able to remember when each team in the league last won a playoff game.

Over the last 10 years the Jets have one winning season.  They have not been to a Super Bowl in over 50 years.  

[BobJohnson55]

(04-07-2021, 10:13 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Who gives a shit. 

Bengals fans are the only ones who ignore Super Bowls and regular seasons in order to obsess only over winning one playoff game.

Ask an average NFL fan about which teams have been winning the most in regular seasons and going to Super Bowls and they can tell you.  But almost none will be able to remember when each team in the league last won a playoff game.

Over the last 10 years the Jets have one winning season.  They have not been to a Super Bowl in over 50 years.  

Whoa sir! you are cussing like a sailor today 

[lone bengal]

Prior to the last two off-seasons the Bengals weren’t huge players in free agency so when they missed big in the draft it hurt them big time. Far as revisiting the playoffs I think we’re still two good drafts away from being contenders. I’m not sold on this coaching staff, the only young talent on the O-line is Williams who’s played 10 games in 2 years. We still need a WR 1 and far as defense goes I’m not sure we got a D-line who can get to the QB consistently., Hendricks had 1 good year , the jury is still out on the linebackers and we don’t have a number 1 CB / plus I think Waynes is overrated he had some bad years with the Vikings.

[TJ528]

(04-08-2021, 09:41 AM)lone bengal Wrote: Prior to the last two off-seasons the Bengals weren’t huge players in free agency so when they missed big in the draft it hurt them big time. Far as revisiting the playoffs I think we’re still two good drafts away from being contenders.  I’m not sold on this coaching staff, the only young talent on the O-line is Williams who’s played 10 games in 2 years.  We still need a WR 1 and far as defense goes I’m not sure we got a D-line who can get to the QB consistently., Hendricks had 1 good year , the jury is still out on the linebackers and we don’t have a number 1 CB / plus I think Waynes is overrated he had some bad years with the Vikings.

Lone, I have to agree with you.  As i've said, there's many holes on this team.  IMO there's too many holes on this team for it to even be 9-8 this year.  I think 9-8 is the absolutely best this team could do this year and that's if they don't have any injuries and they draft well.  

IMO our holes are on the DL, OL, LB, and WR, and those were created by crappy drafts since 2015 because as you pointed out we havent used Free Agency until Taylor arrived.  Is that because Marvin didnt want to use FA or is it because the FO gave into Taylor and agreed to us FA?  

My other questions are about the coaching staff as well.  They havent shown me they can grow and improve players.  I'm hoping that if this team does finish 4-13 or 5-12 that the coaching staff is shown the door.  My problem is if this team finishes  7-10 does the Front Office give them 1 more year to prove themselves because their a "young coaching staff" and knew they'd have growing pains.   I think if they have a losing season and keep the coaching staff then they're best prepare for very empty stands. 

[lone bengal]

(04-08-2021, 09:51 AM)TJ528 Wrote: Lone, I have to agree with you.  As i've said, there's many holes on this team.  IMO there's too many holes on this team for it to even be 9-8 this year.  I think 9-8 is the absolutely best this team could do this year and that's if they don't have any injuries and they draft well.  

IMO our holes are on the DL, OL, LB, and WR, and those were created by crappy drafts since 2015 because as you pointed out we havent used Free Agency until Taylor arrived.  Is that because Marvin didnt want to use FA or is it because the FO gave into Taylor and agreed to us FA?  

My other questions are about the coaching staff as well.  They havent shown me they can grow and improve players.  I'm hoping that if this team does finish 4-13 or 5-12 that the coaching staff is shown the door.  My problem is if this team finishes  7-10 does the Front Office give them 1 more year to prove themselves because their a "young coaching staff" and knew they'd have growing pains.   I think if they have a losing season and keep the coaching staff then they're best prepare for very empty stands. 

I think even if they win 6 games Mike Brown will view it like there headed in the right direction. I think the front office will be reluctant to fire Taylor because it shows they have failed again. Even if they fire Taylor it sets us back because the players have to learn a new scheme. Far as being big players in free agency under Taylor it was part winning the fans back and the fact they didn't have a lot of there own to resign because they were drafting bad. 

[Memphis_Bengal]

(04-08-2021, 11:38 AM)lone bengal Wrote: I think even if they win 6 games Mike Brown will view it like there headed in the right direction. I think the front office will be reluctant to fire Taylor because it shows they have failed again. Even if they fire Taylor it sets us back because the players have to learn a new scheme. Far as being big players in free agency under Taylor it was part winning the fans back and the fact they didn't have a lot of there own to resign because they were drafting bad. 

There is NO FREAKING WAY 6 wins saves his job...imo.

[lone bengal]

(04-08-2021, 11:48 AM)Memphis_Bengal Wrote: There is NO FREAKING WAY 6 wins saves his job...imo.

Lol I mean I would definitely fire him. Forgot there’s 17 games too, could see them going 7-10. I just see Mike Brown being like Burrow is coming back from an ACL and we went from 2 wins - 4 win - 6-7 wins and he thinks that’s progress and dosen’t want the fan base thinking they failed again with there hand picked hire.

[fredtoast]

(04-08-2021, 11:48 AM)Memphis_Bengal Wrote: There is NO FREAKING WAY 6 wins saves his job...imo.

Neither does 7 or 8.

I think the amount of money the front office has spent on free agents the last 2 years puts Taylor on a very short leash.

[TJ528]

(04-08-2021, 12:33 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Neither does 7 or 8.

I think the amount of money the front office has spent on free agents the last 2 years puts Taylor on a very short leash.

Whether Zac wants to admit it or not this is 'his" team.  

Guys he's brought in that fit Lou's scheme or guys he's bringing in on offense that fit that scheme. 

Personally, I just think Lou's a bad coach, but I also believe that of Zac.  

I truly believe a good coach molds their team around their schemes and philosophies and hires a coaching staff that fits their strengths. 

I can look at Zac's staff he brought in and none of them fit the strengths of the team.   

Lets hope if they go 7-10 this year that the front office does the right thing and walks their ass out the door because I truly believe a new coach next year won't be behind by much considering there's nowhere to go but up.