Question for Drafting Chase Supporters

[PDub80]

(04-16-2021, 10:21 PM)ezekiel23 Wrote: It’s simple.We simply have a better lineup on the O-line this year as opposed to last year.XSF is a pretty good lineman.New coach will benefit him.Spain is an above average lineman,when healthy.You need to look at Spain’s PFF grades prior to 2020.For instnance,in 2019,he played in all 16 games,every offensive snap.4 penalties,0 sacks allowed.I’m fine with this lineup,and this new coach.O-line is second deepest position in this upcoming draft.There will plenty of talent there after Sewell.I question the level of talent Sewell played against as opposed to Chase.Plus Sewell is very young and very raw.I think he was only 19 years old when he played his last college game.Chase on the other hand will be an immediate impact player.Chase is the highest rated WR by practically every NFL analyst.This guy is a generational talent.The Bengals cannot afford to pass him up if he is there at 5.Best player available??? I would rate him as the most talented.Not only among wide receivers,but in the entire draft.And that includes Pitts.

I think a huge need is filled if they draft a Center. Hopkins is a RG. He is NATURALLY a RG. He had to play center because Billy Price sucks and got injured.

They also need a swing Tackle. No question. They can take any 1 or 2 of the OL spots and make it work this draft.

The depth at OT is pitiful. The depth at RG is Spain at best.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-16-2021, 10:30 PM)PDub80 Wrote: I think a huge need is filled if they draft a Center. Hopkins is a RG. He is NATURALLY a RG. He had to play center because Billy Price sucks and got injured.

They also need a swing Tackle. No question. They can take any 1 or 2 of the OL spots and make it work this draft.

The depth at OT is pitiful. The depth at RG is Spain at best.

Disagree with you here PDub. Hopkins is a good pass blocking Center and sucks at Guard. Weird but true.

Price just sucks where ever you put him it seems.

Creed Humphrey or Quinn Meinerz at 38 would both be great picks IMO.

[Hammerstripes]

(04-15-2021, 10:41 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: This is a very good OL class. There’s like 10 guys ranked in the top 50 iirc. There’s going to be some very good options available at 38, that would be 1st round picks in some other years.

To me going with Chase comes down to one very simple reason, the drop off between him and the other outside WR’s is far greater than Sewell and the day 2 linemen. It’s about value, and where the sweet spot to hit those two particular positions is the strongest.

I can't say that I agree with any of this.

We don't know who is going to be around for linemen in the 2nd round, so a lot of those guys may come of the board late 1st and the first 5 picks of the 2nd round.  That being said, I don't really see anyone ranked 6-10 that would have been a first round pick last year.

The simple fact for me, is that you can always find a WR that can come in and contribute year 1 in rounds 2-4.  We have seen the Bengals and other teams do it routinely.  The same can't be said about O-linemen.  We haven't hit on a guy outside of round 1 in ages.  I don't trust them to be able to do it this year.  Now, WR, we have been very strong in getting great guys in round 2.

There will be several WRs that will be able to step in right away in round 2.

I don't ever subscribe to the "this draft is so deep that we can address a need with a first round prospect in round 2-3" theory.  Nobody knows how the board will play out and you have to take the best guy for your team at #5.  Lord knows who will be around in the 2nd round at this point.

[Hammerstripes]

(04-16-2021, 11:23 AM)Joelist Wrote: To me, the whole drafting issue boils down to the following:

1) We need OL

2) We need WR

3) The OL class this year is both high quality and VERY deep.

4) The WR class this year is high quality at the top but with little depth.

From these points the course of action would seem to be go WR first then OL because the depth of the OL class means good OL will be there in Rd 2. Of course, I would rather we traded back up into 1 as the “top” OL I think fits us best is Vera Tucker.

Eh, I wouldn't go that far.  It's considered one of the deepest positions in this year's draft.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(04-17-2021, 01:20 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Disagree with you here PDub. Hopkins is a good pass blocking Center and sucks at Guard. Weird but true.

Price just sucks where ever you put him it seems.

Creed Humphrey or Quinn Meinerz at 38 would both be great picks IMO.

Ocho posted Hopkins PFF grades at G a while back and I was surprised they were much better than I remembered.

[WVUHomer]

(04-17-2021, 03:01 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: I can't say that I agree with any of this.

We don't know who is going to be around for linemen in the 2nd round, so a lot of those guys may come of the board late 1st and the first 5 picks of the 2nd round.  That being said, I don't really see anyone ranked 6-10 that would have been a first round pick last year.

The simple fact for me, is that you can always find a WR that can come in and contribute year 1 in rounds 2-4.  We have seen the Bengals and other teams do it routinely.  The same can't be said about O-linemen.  We haven't hit on a guy outside of round 1 in ages.  I don't trust them to be able to do it this year.  Now, WR, we have been very strong in getting great guys in round 2.

There will be several WRs that will be able to step in right away in round 2.

I don't ever subscribe to the "this draft is so deep that we can address a need with a first round prospect in round 2-3" theory.  Nobody knows how the board will play out and you have to take the best guy for your team at #5.  Lord knows who will be around in the 2nd round at this point.

Honestly, we've not really even hit on OL in the first. Think of the last 4 OL we've picked in the first. Big Z, Og, Price and Jonah. Z is the most successful. Granted Jonah is still TBD but so far isn't a huge hit because of the injuries.

It feels like we've done better with Line (both sides) more in the middle (for this argument 2-4) with Whit, Boling, Dunlap, Geno, etc.

Fwiw, I am more #TeamChase for the fact that outside Ross, our skill picks in the first seem to pan out better but that could just be my opinion.

[*bfine32*]

Who the hell wants to draft Chase Supporters? Let's draft football players

[*rfaulk34*]

(04-17-2021, 03:08 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Ocho posted Hopkins PFF grades at G a while back and I was surprised they were much better than I remembered.

2017, full time OG, 707 snaps, highest passblocking grade of his career 77.6 and the lowest run blocking grade of his career 50.8

2 sacks, 15 total pressures 8th best over 13 games. 97.9 passblock efficiency which was good for 17th best. 

[Shake n Blake]

(04-16-2021, 03:26 AM)wanga Wrote: Can’t fix the o line with one pick unfortunately. We can make our receivers elite with that one pick though.
Then invest heavily in the front line in 2,3,4 and waivers etc. That and better coaching and scheme may just turn it from crap to capable.

Because our line is much worse off than our receivers?

[masonbengals fan]

(04-17-2021, 04:11 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Because our line is much worse off than our receivers?

 I think so too. 

[wanga]

(04-17-2021, 04:11 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Because our line is much worse off than our receivers?

It is I reckon of course. With FA and a couple of good picks I’m hoping it’s going to be much improved. 
Personally I like the idea of an elite WR like Chase to pair with Tyler and Tee and we’re set for years. No problem with taking Sewell and having an elite OLineman and building around that either.
Just my opinion. 

[Shake n Blake]

(04-17-2021, 07:41 PM)wanga Wrote: It is I reckon of course. With FA and a couple of good picks I’m hoping it’s going to be much improved. 
Personally I like the idea of an elite WR like Chase to pair with Tyler and Tee and we’re set for years. No problem with taking Sewell and having an elite OLineman and building around that either.
Just my opinion. 

You're allowed to be wrong.

Seriously though, I just don't like the idea of having to pay Burrow and Chase monster contracts back-to-back. It reminds me of the Lions with Stafford and Megatron. Or Atlanta with Ryan and Julio. Not much success between those two teams, for all that money spent on a QB/WR duo. Meanwhile, elite QBs like Brady, Rodgers and Brees have seemingly swapped WRs every few years and rarely have an elite guy.

Their teams instead spend on blocking and defense.

I know which model I'd follow with Burrow, but in the end, none of what we say matters. Hopefully the Bengals make the smart decision.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(04-16-2021, 12:12 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I love how even in a thread specifically asking for opinions of those for taking Chase we’re going to get a bunch of posts talking about why we shouldn’t lol.

This thread went exactly as I thought it would...lol

[Shake n Blake]

(04-18-2021, 12:46 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: This thread went exactly as I thought it would...lol

Threads about Sewell go the exact same way. There's just no avoiding debate at this point.

Both sides are equally passionate about their guy. Even people who claim they don't care will argue for 70 pages in favor of their guy.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(04-18-2021, 01:00 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Threads about Sewell go the exact same way. There's just no avoiding debate at this point.

Both sides are equally passionate about their guy. Even people who claim they don't care will argue for 70 pages in favor of their guy.

Still kind of obnoxious when the thread title is this clear...

But hey, it’s a free country.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(04-18-2021, 01:00 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Threads about Sewell go the exact same way. There's just no avoiding debate at this point.

Both sides are equally passionate about their guy. Even people who claim they don't care will argue for 70 pages in favor of their guy.

Btw, your sig is downright silly. If you’re going to include guys like Geoff Hobson (lol) and Mike Tannenbaum, then Team Chase is a hell of a lot bigger than just Tony Pike.

[Shake n Blake]

(04-18-2021, 01:11 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Btw, your sig is downright silly. If you’re going to include guys like Geoff Hobson (lol) and Mike Tannenbaum, then Team Chase is a hell of a lot bigger than just Tony Pike.

Nothing silly about it.

On one hand you have a list of Bengals legends and the reporter who is closest to the franchise.

On the other you have Tony Pike.

You have to admit that the list is a bit disproportionate in favor of Sewell. The only people I've seen listed for Chase is Pike and Mora.

[Bengalholic]

(04-18-2021, 01:18 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Nothing silly about it.

On one hand you have a list of Bengals legends and the reporter who is closest to the franchise.

On the other you have Tony Pike.

You have to admit that the list is a bit disproportionate in favor of Sewell. The only people I've seen listed for Chase is Pike and Mora.

I would love for Kyle 'stiff arm' Pitts to get past 4 somehow and the Bengals take him. Then all half dozen of the fans on the board rooting for him to be the pick (I'm one) can celebrate.

[*bfine32*]

(04-18-2021, 12:46 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: This thread went exactly as I thought it would...lol

Well to be fair, this dude was the first to post his opinon on a player other than Chase...

Nicomo Cosca Wrote:Yep. Chase’s best tape is against 1st and 2nd round guys (Terrell, Diggs, etc). Sewell’s best tape is mostly against day 3 prospects. The one game he did face really high end competition (Auburn) he was just ok. It’s funny, way back when I was obsessing over Sewell (and I’m talking long before Burrow got hurt) there were people telling me how weak the PAC-12 was, and that he never saw elite pass rushers out there. Don’t see any of that brought up lately though. Basically because they don’t want a WR at 5.

[Shake n Blake]

(04-18-2021, 01:24 AM)Bengalholic Wrote: I would love for Kyle 'stiff arm' Pitts to get past 4 somehow and the Bengals take him. Then all half dozen of the fans on the board rooting for him to be the pick (I'm one) can celebrate.

Honestly I feel for those 4 dudes.

Tbh I think it'd be hilarious if the Bengals trolled 90% of their fans by taking Pitts.

And it'd probably spare us of years of pointless debate.