Trade for Julio?

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(04-28-2021, 09:56 AM)Au165 Wrote: I don't think Julio brings a 1st like people are talking about, I am expecting a 2nd, potentially a 2nd they recover from moving Jimmy G. The last WR traded for a 1st round pick was Brandon Cooks and that was a bust, before that it doesn't look much better in the last 20 years and none were 32. 

By what measure? He went there and put up over 1,200 yards at over 15 yards per catch in his first year. He helped them go to the Super Bowl that year, put up 107 yards in their 3 point win in the NFC Championship and then put up 120 yards in the Super bowl. That's the exact opposite of a bust.

He just got pushed out of favor in 2019 because Cooper Kupp and Robert Woods both suddenly developed into 1,100+ yd WRs and were both much cheaper than Cooks, so they traded him to the Texans (where he put up over 1,100 yards again).

Also you clearly missed a trade, because the last one I believe was OBJ when he was traded to the Browns for a 1st just back in 2019. (Which does seem close to a bust. Lol)

- - - - - -

I don't think anyone is going to trade for Jimmy G at all, let alone for a 2nd rounder. 

They would be taking on basically 2yr/$50m contract for a guy who has only played in more than 6 games in 1 of his 4 seasons in SF, or in his entire 7 year career for that matter. He's missed 33 games in his 4 years with the 49ers. Nobody sane will ever trust their QB plan to that. Even Sam Bradford thinks that's too fragile. Lol

[fredtoast]

Big point everyone is missing. If we trade for Julio we have to take his current contract.


$15.3 million this year. $38.5 over next three years.

[Au165]

(04-28-2021, 10:20 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: By what measure? He went there and put up over 1,200 yards at over 15 yards per catch in his first year. He helped them go to the Super Bowl that year, put up 107 yards in their 3 point win in the NFC Championship and then put up 120 yards in the Super bowl. That's the exact opposite of a bust.

He just got pushed out of favor in 2019 because Cooper Kupp and Robert Woods both suddenly developed into 1,100+ yd WRs and were both much cheaper than Cooks, so they traded him to the Texans (where he put up over 1,100 yards again).

Also you clearly missed a trade, because the last one I believe was OBJ when he was traded to the Browns for a 1st just back in 2019. (Which does seem close to a bust. Lol)

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I don't think anyone is going to trade for Jimmy G at all, let alone for a 2nd rounder. 

They would be taking on basically 2yr/$50m contract for a guy who has only played in more than 6 games in 1 of his 4 seasons in SF, or in his entire 7 year career for that matter. He's missed 33 games in his 4 years with the 49ers. Nobody sane will ever trust their QB plan to that. Even Sam Bradford thinks that's too fragile. Lol

He got traded for a 1st twice within 3 years from NO to NE and then NE to LA, that isn't even talking about falling out of favor in LA and moving him to Houston. It's a bust because each time the team got 2 years or less production out of the 1st round pick they gave away. If you trade a 1st and only get two years of production, or 1 in NE, that would be a bust of a pick no matter how good the production was.

I did forget about OBJ, but yea that falls in line with looking like a bust.

I think they get the 2nd they would like back as 25.5 for a starting QB in the NFL is the going rate for the most part and when healthy he has been a solid starter. Funny you mention Bradford, when he was traded for a 1st he had only played in 16 of a possible 48 games preceding the trade. Obviously, the Vikings were desperate but the fact remains he was VERY injury prone and people still wanted him. 

[Big Boss]

The Bengals paid AJ Green $18 million dollars, force-fed him the ball over 100 times, and released a video tribute to him when he left.

Even by clickbait standards, this is some idiotic stuff.

[PDub80]

(04-28-2021, 10:23 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Big point everyone is missing. If we trade for Julio we have to take his current contract.


$15.3 million this year. $38.5 over next three years.

EXACTLY! Even with the cap expanding by a ton in the upcoming years, this contract STILL looks awful given the player's age. The Falcon's last GM decided it would be smart to pay the player based on what he had done and not what he was more than likely going to do.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(04-28-2021, 10:26 AM)Au165 Wrote: He got traded for a 1st twice within 3 years from NO to NE and then NE to LA, that isn't even talking about falling out of favor in LA and moving him to Houston. It's a bust because each time the team got 2 years or less production out of the 1st round pick they gave away. If you trade a 1st and only get two years of production, or 1 in NE, that would be a bust of a pick no matter how good the production was.

I did forget about OBJ, but yea that falls in line with looking like a bust.

I think they get the 2nd they would like back as 25.5 for a starting QB in the NFL is the going rate for the most part and when healthy he has been a solid starter. Funny you mention Bradford, when he was traded for a 1st he had only played in 16 of a possible 48 games preceding the trade. Obviously, the Vikings were desperate but the fact remains he was VERY injury prone and people still wanted him. 

And went he went to New England he put up almost 1,100 yards at over 16.5 yards per carry, and again, helped the Patriots go to the Super bowl. Giving up a 1st for a WR who helps you go to the Super Bowl that very year is never a bust. Doubly so when you can recoup most of that draft capital by trading him again.

The Patriots gave a 1st, got a WR who helped them get to the Super Bowl, and then traded him and got a 1st: Great deal for the Patriots.
The Rams gave a 1st, got a WR who helped them get to the Super Bowl, and then traded him and got a 2nd: Great deal for the Rams.

Not sure how those can be seen as busts.

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When the Vikings traded for Bradford, he had played 21 of the previous 48 games, not 16, but yeah. 

Desperation aside, Bradford had played at least 10 games in 4 of his 6 years (or 67% of the time) at the time of the trade. Jimmy G has played in at least 10 games only 1 out of 7 years (or 14% of the time). Bradford had played at least 14 games 3/6 years. So there was some hope that was built upon at least a little proof. 

Also Bradford was a 1st overall pick, which helps the perceived value/desireability.

[Au165]

(04-28-2021, 10:49 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: And went he went to New England he put up almost 1,100 yards at over 16.5 yards per carry, and again, helped the Patriots go to the Super bowl. Giving up a 1st for a WR who helps you go to the Super Bowl that very year is never a bust. Doubly so when you can recoup most of that draft capital by trading him again.

The Patriots gave a 1st, got a WR who helped them get to the Super Bowl, and then traded him and got a 1st: Great deal for the Patriots.
The Rams gave a 1st, got a WR who helped them get to the Super Bowl, and then traded him and got a 2nd: Great deal for the Rams.

Not sure how those can be seen as busts.

- - - - -
When the Vikings traded for Bradford, he had played 21 of the previous 48 games, not 16, but yeah. 

Desperation aside, Bradford had played at least 10 games in 4 of his 6 years (or 67% of the time) at the time of the trade. Jimmy G has played in at least 10 games only 1 out of 7 years (or 14% of the time). Bradford had played at least 14 games 3/6 years. So there was some hope that was built upon at least a little proof. 

Also Bradford was a 1st overall pick, which helps the perceived value/desireability.

Because if you get 1-year production out of any guy you take with a 1st round pick everyone in the world will agree that's a bust. The fact the teams didn't see the need to keep him around shows what they actually thought, no matter how you'd like to frame it they didn't think he was worth keeping. Recovering something back for him helps but in context to this discussion no one is flipping 34 year old Julio Jones at the end of two years for another 1st.

As for Bradford, he was injury-prone at that moment and had never had any real success. Jimmy has been to a SB and was one missed deep ball from a championship, which helps perceived value and desirability. I think they get a 2nd for him, I guess we will find out.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(04-28-2021, 10:53 AM)Au165 Wrote: Because if you get 1-year production out of any guy you take with a 1st round pick everyone in the world will agree that's a bust. The fact the teams didn't see the need to keep him around shows what they actually thought, no matter how you'd like to frame it they didn't think he was worth keeping. Recovering something back for him helps but in context to this discussion no one is flipping 34 year old Julio Jones at the end of two years for another 1st.

As for Bradford, he was injury-prone at that moment and had never had any real success. Jimmy has been to a SB and was one missed deep ball from a championship, which helps perceived value and desirability. I think they get a 2nd for him, I guess we will find out.

Except they were not consuming the 1st round pick. The Patriots spent a 1st round pick, got 1 year of a player who helped them go to the SB, and then got a 1st round pick right back. They got a 1 year rental of a player who helped reach the SB in exchange for simply delaying their 1st round pick by a year. 

That is an amazing deal. There's no "frame" needed.

I find it interesting that you demand of Bradford to support your demand of Jimmy G theory, but you find demand of Cooks to be a damning indication that it was bad.

[Au165]

(04-28-2021, 11:19 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Except they were not consuming the 1st round pick. The Patriots spent a 1st round pick, got 1 year of a player who helped them go to the SB, and then got a 1st round pick right back. They got a 1 year rental of a player who helped reach the SB in exchange for simply delaying their 1st round pick by a year. 

That is an amazing deal. There's no "frame" needed.

I find it interesting that you demand of Bradford to support your demand of Jimmy G theory, but you find demand of Cooks to be a damning indication that it was bad.

Actually, you brought Bradford up to try and knock Jimmy's injury history. I used your incorrect assumption that Bradford was somehow more durable at the point he was traded, for a 1st might I add, as a reason that Jimmy could actually return a much lower value compensation but more than your belief. I add in Jimmy's production to point out that he did have something that Bradford never had to that point and is sub 30 by the way to again highlight why a 2nd in comparison to Bradford's 1st isn't crazy idea. Cooks production has no impact on if it was bad or good because he lacked the longevity you'd want for the compensation, and AGAIN in context to busts and trading 1st rounders for a WR, you are using a follow-up trade to justify it but that isn't relevant to the point in regards to giving a 1st for a 32-year-old Julio Jones.

[Wes Mantooth]

How does drafting Chase stick it to AJ Green?

"Hey, guess what?  Now that you're gone we're going to draft someone to replace you!  How'd you like that! (We really showed that guy!).

And why would the Bengals want to stick it to AJ Green?  Did he shit on Mike Brown's desk before he cleaning out his locker or something?  If they wanted to "stick it to him" they shouldn't have tried to negotiate an extenstion or tagged him.  They should have just let him walk after sitting out 2019.

Also, as much as absolutely love Julio Jones there's no way I'd trade for him.  The only teams that should be considering to trade for him are teams looking to rent him for 2 years to put them over the hump.  The Bengals have entirely way too many holes and, like it or not, aren't a contender so he doesn't make much sense as a rental.

[TJHoushmandzadeh's Shiny Shoes]

Julio Jones makes sense for a team in win now mode. The Bengals are still rebuilding.

[*jason*]

AJ Green can stick it to the Bengals by making a run at a championship this year.

[*ochocincos*]

The Bengals have room to take on Julio's contract, but unless the Bengals are going to contend this year, it doesn't make sense.
And based on how they approached FA, I think the best we can hope for is a winning record.
My realistic expectation is 6-8 wins.

[Au165]

(04-28-2021, 11:56 AM)ochocincos Wrote: The Bengals have room to take on Julio's contract, but unless the Bengals are going to contend this year, it doesn't make sense.
And based on how they approached FA, I think the best we can hope for is a winning record.
My realistic expectation is 6-8 wins.

Tough schedule, if we got 8 wins I would be pretty happy if they competed well in the other games and showed marked improvement that needs just a player or two to finish off the rebuild. 

[TecmoBengals]

(04-28-2021, 11:35 AM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: How does drafting Chase stick it to AJ Green?

It doesn't, it's a nonsensical notion to even discuss. I'd rather debate Sewell v Chase as the pick (pepper in a bit of Pitts).

[Bengalfan4life27c]

Only 17.5 million guaranteed. If we draft Sewell we could potentially fix both problems. Worst case scenario a 1 year rental until we find a more permanent replacement.

[fredtoast]

Worst case scenario we get an injured 31 year old receiver who can't produce and lose a high draft pick plus $17.5 million in salary desperately needed to re-build.

[*ochocincos*]

(04-28-2021, 12:17 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: Only 17.5 million guaranteed. If we draft Sewell we could potentially fix both problems. Worst case scenario a 1 year rental until we find a more permanent replacement.

Never spend $17 mill on a one-year rental unless you are expecting to contend for a Super Bowl.

[bengals1969]

(04-28-2021, 12:17 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: Only 17.5 million guaranteed. If we draft Sewell we could potentially fix both problems. Worst case scenario a 1 year rental until we find a more permanent replacement.

[TecmoBengals]

Julio would turn into AJ Green 2.0: Aging, expensive, and with a hint of a dissatisfaction. Jones isn't going to be happy playing for Taylor and a losing franchise. He's the type of guy that wants to be on playoff bound teams that immediately can win a Super Bowl.