For Team Sewell

[Gdale_Bengal]

(05-02-2021, 02:34 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: As much as it pains me to keep kicking the can down the road, yes we can address it next year. I suppose we're okay this year if Jonah stays healthy. If not, I guess one of the rookies is going to get a trial by fire at LT.

When they signed Reiff I kinda assumed it was going to get addressed either with a middle round talent to develop this year or do something next year. They did draft D’ante Smith, but he might take more than 1year to put on the right size and technique. Will have to wait and see with him.

[Bengalholic]

(05-02-2021, 02:34 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: As much as it pains me to keep kicking the can down the road, yes we can address it next year. I suppose we're okay this year if Jonah stays healthy. If not, I guess one of the rookies is going to get a trial by fire at LT.

Man, that's a huge piece of the puzzle...and for the entire o-line really. When it comes to the line, there's a huge benefit that usually comes from continuity - staying healthy and allowing everyone to get in a groove with one another. 

[Benton]

I wasn't Team Sewell but I was Team Rebuild The Line Instead of Using Old Guys and Broken Bits. Personally, I thought we could've traded back to 10-15, gotten a top lineman AND a top receiver, and been in good position to get another lineman later.

I won't relax much, but I will let it go. The line we had a week ago is the line we will start the season with. A veteran who is good, but wasn't a hot commodity in the offseason. Generally, there's a reason for that and one year deals. Jonah is Jonah. The best thing for him would be moving inside to try and preserve his ability to play. Now he'll start at left tackle, probably get injured after a few games and we'll do... something. Or he'll play through injury and being fans we'll make excuses for him.

But the issue was: Team Chase/Pitts kept claiming he was the safest pick because the draft was so deep in OL talent. And they were right.

Since that's what a lot of folks need (and maybe deserve) to hear, I'll say it again: Team Chase/Pitts, you were right. There were gobs of talent left after the first round.

There were several guys I was shocked to see at the top of 2 that we could've got who likely would've played pretty early in 2021. But Carman? That likely does nothing for us next season.

And unfortunately, that's were Team Sewell was right. We didn't take a high pick on the line and proceeded to not address it this season.

I doubt we see much from the guys we drafted for the OL this year. They've got great potential, but they're prospects. Could one of them surprise and be ready Day 1? Of course. And I hope they are. Anyone drafted at any position can be the GOAT. That's not, generally, what we're talking about during the draft, though.

I loved the defensive picks. I like the Chase pick. But I think everyone agreed our #1 need going into the draft was OL. Many of us differed on how to improve it (top prospect first, then other spots; other spot first and a line prospect later). But what we ended up with weren't good picks for an immediate need.

[Nicomo Cosca]

Carman will start day one at RG. Book it. I’m going to keep repeating it every time I see it suggested that our pre-draft OL will be the 5 starters week one.

[Beaker]

(05-02-2021, 02:10 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote:  But o-line once again took a backseat on the priority list. This time to WR.

The Bengals drafted 1 WR and 3 OL. Just because they didn't take OL before WR doesn't mean it wasn't prioritized. With a 3:1 ratio I would say OL got 3X the priority of WR.

[Beaker]

(05-02-2021, 03:03 PM)Benton Wrote: I wasn't Team Sewell but I was Team Rebuild The Line Instead of Using Old Guys and Broken Bits. Personally, I thought we could've traded back to 10-15, gotten a top lineman AND a top receiver, and been in good position to get another lineman later.

I won't relax much, but I will let it go. The line we had a week ago is the line we will start the season with. A veteran who is good, but wasn't a hot commodity in the offseason. Generally, there's a reason for that and one year deals. Jonah is Jonah. The best thing for him would be moving inside to try and preserve his ability to play. Now he'll start at left tackle, probably get injured after a few games and we'll do... something. Or he'll play through injury and being fans we'll make excuses for him.

But the issue was: Team Chase/Pitts kept claiming he was the safest pick because the draft was so deep in OL talent. And they were right.

Since that's what a lot of folks need (and maybe deserve) to hear, I'll say it again: Team Chase/Pitts, you were right. There were gobs of talent left after the first round.

There were several guys I was shocked to see at the top of 2 that we could've got who likely would've played pretty early in 2021. But Carman? That likely does nothing for us next season.

And unfortunately, that's were Team Sewell was right. We didn't take a high pick on the line and proceeded to not address it this season.

I doubt we see much from the guys we drafted for the OL this year. They've got great potential, but they're prospects. Could one of them surprise and be ready Day 1? Of course. And I hope they are. Anyone drafted at any position can be the GOAT. That's not, generally, what we're talking about during the draft, though.

I loved the defensive picks. I like the Chase pick. But I think everyone agreed our #1 need going into the draft was OL. Many of us differed on how to improve it (top prospect first, then other spots; other spot first and a line prospect later). But what we ended up with weren't good picks for an immediate need.

I have no idea how you can make this leap? Carman will start at G this season...which was exactly why they drafted him. Do you assume only 1st round picks are worthy of being starters as rookies? People were pissed that we passed on some OTs. Well, the Bengals passed on OTs because they saw OG as the priority in beginning to fix the O line....which is absolutely true, our G play last season was really bad. Seeing tackles come of the board caused some posters to have aneurisms. But we got a G and a C as well as an OT in the draft. Interior line is where we were hurting, and we needed another OT for backup/rotational duty. They addressed those needs very well in the draft. Now the players they drafted just have to live up to the expectations of why they were drafted.

[Spider]

(05-02-2021, 04:27 PM)Beaker Wrote: I have no idea how you can make this leap? Carman will start at G this season...which was exactly why they drafted him. Do you assume only 1st round picks are worthy of being starters as rookies? People were pissed that we passed on some OTs. Well, the Bengals passed on OTs because they saw OG as the priority in beginning to fix the O line....which is absolutely true, our G play last season was really bad. Seeing tackles come of the board caused some posters to have aneurisms. But we got a G and a C as well as an OT in the draft. Interior line is where we were hurting, and we needed another OT for backup/rotational duty. They addressed those needs very well in the draft. Now the players they drafted just have to live up to the expectations of why they were drafted.

This is truth..
So what we passed on Sewell
They had a plan in place
Now they have to execute
They adressed they glaring needs quite well
I agree with Beaker

[Shake n Blake]

(05-02-2021, 02:53 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Man, that's a huge piece of the puzzle...and for the entire o-line really. When it comes to the line, there's a huge benefit that usually comes from continuity - staying healthy and allowing everyone to get in a groove with one another. 

Big Whit spoiled us.

(05-02-2021, 04:17 PM)Beaker Wrote: The Bengals drafted 1 WR and 3 OL. Just because they didn't take OL before WR doesn't mean it wasn't prioritized. With a 3:1 ratio I would say OL got 3X the priority of WR.

When you have 2 top talents who are viewed pretty equally and you choose one, that's where your true priority was.

Saying picking 3 guys in later rounds trumps that, is like saying that signing 1 WR for $15 million and 3 lineman off the scrap heap means we put line before WR.

[Murdock2420]

(05-02-2021, 05:06 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Big Whit spoiled us.


When you have 2 top talents who are viewed pretty equally and you choose one, that's where your true priority was.

Saying picking 3 guys in later rounds trumps that, is like saying that signing 1 WR for $15 million and 3 lineman off the scrap heap means we put line before WR.

Couldn't have said it any better Shake and this is why I've really cut down on my posting since the pick in round one. I just have nothing positive to say about the team and their decision making at the moment.

When you spend 3 picks on a position group, that should be viewed as knowing that position group is a weakness. However, when you pass on the best guy at that position group for a guy that you took and then said "done with WR for the draft" that is an issue for me. Clearly this shows that WR wasn't a major concern for the team if one pick is enough to fix it. Then it gets worse when you really look into what they did for the OL. I like Jackson in late round 2, I think he'll be a good guard and it is an upgrade but this is the end of the line for upgrades. They took a developmental tackle in round 4 that will need a year (some reports say two years) to become a decent tackle. Not an upgrade in the short term and does nothing when Jonah goes down again. Then they took a C in the sixth round, who most likely is headed to the practice squad. I know people are hyping the 6th and 7th round picks, but let's be honest, most 6th and 7th rounders don't make an impact in the league. Note, I said most not all. Your impact is round 1, 2, 3, and some of 4. I think the Bengals will get impact from their 5th round pick, since he will be the starter and should be an upgrade over Seibert.

Overall, just not a situation that I'm overly excited about. Time will tell but I honestly believe at the end of the season, this same discussion is being had about how the OL is the handicap and held the team back. And, people will point to Jonah was hurt and XSF was hurt and Hopkins needs another year to recover from his ACL surgery, while ignoring that these are trends with these players and at some point you just have to give in and spend the high round, high value picks to get the reliable guys for the line, or you have to break the bank in FA to get guys that you know are going to hold the line.

[Essex Johnson]

(05-02-2021, 12:49 PM)Beaker Wrote: This is not an I told you so thread. But this is to address whether or not Team Sewell people can now relax a bit after the draft is complete.

The biggest argument I heard coming out of those on team Sewell was that "winning teams build from the trenches". And if the Bengals took Chase, they were neglecting the trenches and Burrow was going to die. After taking the best WR in the draft, I would say the Bengals did a really nice job building from the trenches. In fact, of their 110 draft picks, they took 7 players on the Offensive and defensive lines. They got:

A starter a G in Carman. Some thought he was a reach based on his expected draft position. But those grades were based on him being evaluated as an OT prospect, not a G. The Bengals drafted him as a G who could also move out to play RT in case of injuries. Arguably G was our biggest  line need, not T. And with Rieff on a 1 yr deal, Carman is a stellar fit.

A run stuffing, immovable DT from a power SEC school. Shelvin will fit perfectly into our D line rotation and hopefully bring it back to like it was under Zimmer when he was always rotating in fresh players and getting pressure on opposing QBs.

An OT who is a bit light and needs some coaching, but has a great upside.

3 DEs, one of which was a consensus great pick in Ossai. DE was arguably our second biggest position of need. Lack of pressure on QBs was a huge problem last year.

A good C, who if he hadnt gotten injured was projected maybe 2 rounds earlier. We now have a backup/heir to our C who is coming off an ACL injury.

I would say that is a pretty strong job of addressing the trenches.

I also saw a poster who pointed out after the Carman pick that he would have rather had Sewell and a WR like Moore, than Chase and Carman. What he failed to recognize with that post was that it wasn't Chase/Carman. Because of the trade, we also got Tyler Shelvin and D'Ante Smith. Call me stupid, but with the number of holes we had on both lines, I think the Bengals did a fantastic job getting Chase/Carman/Shelvin/Smith which is a huge advantage over Sewell/Moore with those picks.

In conclusion, those who  were upset after round one and were positive the Bengals had screwed up and that our FO was only interested in flashy toys as weapons for Burrow while neglecting the glaring needs....do you still feel the same way now?

Make this short and sweet,  pigeon holing those that wanted Sewell is the problem.. once Chase was chosen I became TEAM OLINE for rest of draft.. and that is where the Bengals failed even with extra picks to convince me they actually targeted the most obvious weakness of our team.. enough said

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(05-02-2021, 02:34 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: As much as it pains me to keep kicking the can down the road, yes we can address it next year. I suppose we're okay this year if Jonah stays healthy. If not, I guess one of the rookies is going to get a trial by fire at LT.

[jfkbengals]

I said it at the beginning of the draft, and I will say it again. The best of the 3 was Pitts, the best move for the Bengals would be Sewell, the move the Bengals would make would be Chase. Then it clear that as long as they left the first round with at least one of those three, they improved the team.

[TecmoBengals]

For Team Sewell,

Remove your Sewell stuff from the forum signature options. He's a Lion.

[Benton]

(05-02-2021, 04:27 PM)Beaker Wrote:  Do you assume only 1st round picks are worthy of being starters as rookies?  

Id answer the question, but I already did in the post

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(05-02-2021, 12:49 PM)Beaker Wrote: This is not an I told you so thread. But this is to address whether or not Team Sewell people can now relax a bit after the draft is complete.

The biggest argument I heard coming out of those on team Sewell was that "winning teams build from the trenches". And if the Bengals took Chase, they were neglecting the trenches and Burrow was going to die. After taking the best WR in the draft, I would say the Bengals did a really nice job building from the trenches. In fact, of their 110 draft picks, they took 7 players on the Offensive and defensive lines. They got:

A starter a G in Carman. Some thought he was a reach based on his expected draft position. But those grades were based on him being evaluated as an OT prospect, not a G. The Bengals drafted him as a G who could also move out to play RT in case of injuries. Arguably G was our biggest  line need, not T. And with Rieff on a 1 yr deal, Carman is a stellar fit.

A run stuffing, immovable DT from a power SEC school. Shelvin will fit perfectly into our D line rotation and hopefully bring it back to like it was under Zimmer when he was always rotating in fresh players and getting pressure on opposing QBs.

An OT who is a bit light and needs some coaching, but has a great upside.

3 DEs, one of which was a consensus great pick in Ossai. DE was arguably our second biggest position of need. Lack of pressure on QBs was a huge problem last year.

A good C, who if he hadnt gotten injured was projected maybe 2 rounds earlier. We now have a backup/heir to our C who is coming off an ACL injury.

I would say that is a pretty strong job of addressing the trenches.

I also saw a poster who pointed out after the Carman pick that he would have rather had Sewell and a WR like Moore, than Chase and Carman. What he failed to recognize with that post was that it wasn't Chase/Carman. Because of the trade, we also got Tyler Shelvin and D'Ante Smith. Call me stupid, but with the number of holes we had on both lines, I think the Bengals did a fantastic job getting Chase/Carman/Shelvin/Smith which is a huge advantage over Sewell/Moore with those picks.

In conclusion, those who  were upset after round one and were positive the Bengals had screwed up and that our FO was only interested in flashy toys as weapons for Burrow while neglecting the glaring needs....do you still feel the same way now?

I like Shelvin but do not think he is that much of an uograde from Tupou (who I guess could sit out again). I doubt we carry 3 NTs. 

Smith is headed to the PS, most likely. No immediate help for Joe there. Hill just had surgery on both knees. Maybe he can take Price's spot at backup C next year. But no immediate help.

I will wait & see on Carman. He has not played G before (in college anyway). Generally not a fan of tall Gs as the have issues getting low. Carman is 6'5". If he does start, I think he'll be marginally better than Spain/XSF, so I do not see a massive upgrade there. Though he does make Jordan the #4 OG (at best), so there is value there.

[PDub80]

(05-02-2021, 02:09 PM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: What really grinds my gears are the guys who said drafting a college tackle to play guard which is the plan for  Carman doesn’t work and will get Burrow killed. Whitworth did it, and Sewell was going to do the same thing. So by those fans logic, drafting Sewell to play guard will get burrow killed.

Carman has all the traits to be a really good guard, the line’s biggest weakness and whoever they took first was going to get penciled in as the starting guard day 1 whether that was Sewell or Slater. I don’t believe Darrisaw was on there radar but he could be the best LT in this draft class

There wasn't a single... SINGLE OT in this draft that the Bengals could draft (including Sewell) that was going to come in and olay OT. Literally every single guy was going to stsrt at Guard. For anyone to knock Carman for that is goofy considering any 1st or 2nd roind O-lineman in this draft was going to be the RG if they won a starting role.

Pumped for the kid from GA to also fight for that G spot or just win the C role outright.

[BengalFanInCanada]

(05-02-2021, 02:10 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I'm pretty sure you're referencing when I said we could've had Sewell plus Terrance Marshall. Marshall went 13 picks after Carman, so we could've traded back and got those picks in either scenario.

You could have traded back in hindsight.  Marshall fell due to potential chronic injury concerns. I think you are assuming he is 100% healthy.  I doubt the Bengals could have taken that chance.

There is a reason he fell so far.

[CJD]

(05-02-2021, 12:49 PM)Beaker Wrote: This is not an I told you so thread. But this is to address whether or not Team Sewell people can now relax a bit after the draft is complete.

The biggest argument I heard coming out of those on team Sewell was that "winning teams build from the trenches". And if the Bengals took Chase, they were neglecting the trenches and Burrow was going to die. After taking the best WR in the draft, I would say the Bengals did a really nice job building from the trenches. In fact, of their 110 draft picks, they took 7 players on the Offensive and defensive lines. They got:

A starter a G in Carman. Some thought he was a reach based on his expected draft position. But those grades were based on him being evaluated as an OT prospect, not a G. The Bengals drafted him as a G who could also move out to play RT in case of injuries. Arguably G was our biggest  line need, not T. And with Rieff on a 1 yr deal, Carman is a stellar fit.

A run stuffing, immovable DT from a power SEC school. Shelvin will fit perfectly into our D line rotation and hopefully bring it back to like it was under Zimmer when he was always rotating in fresh players and getting pressure on opposing QBs.

An OT who is a bit light and needs some coaching, but has a great upside.

3 DEs, one of which was a consensus great pick in Ossai. DE was arguably our second biggest position of need. Lack of pressure on QBs was a huge problem last year.

A good C, who if he hadnt gotten injured was projected maybe 2 rounds earlier. We now have a backup/heir to our C who is coming off an ACL injury.

I would say that is a pretty strong job of addressing the trenches.

I also saw a poster who pointed out after the Carman pick that he would have rather had Sewell and a WR like Moore, than Chase and Carman. What he failed to recognize with that post was that it wasn't Chase/Carman. Because of the trade, we also got Tyler Shelvin and D'Ante Smith. Call me stupid, but with the number of holes we had on both lines, I think the Bengals did a fantastic job getting Chase/Carman/Shelvin/Smith which is a huge advantage over Sewell/Moore with those picks.

In conclusion, those who  were upset after round one and were positive the Bengals had screwed up and that our FO was only interested in flashy toys as weapons for Burrow while neglecting the glaring needs....do you still feel the same way now?

The correct comparison isn't Chase/Carman vs Sewell/Moore for the reasons you mentioned.

The correct comparison is Chase/Carman/Shelvin/Smith vs Sewell/Marshall Jr/Shelvin/Smith

Or you can change the 2 4th round picks in the theoretical case if you'd like to replace Smith with a guard prospect.

Now, I was very much a team Sewell player. And if you gave me the option right now, I would trade Chase and Carman for Sewell and Marshall, assuming Marshall didn't fall for serious medical reasons.

But I also am not at the same alarm level as I was pre-draft about the Oline because the first round fell really well for us. I was concerned that guys like Eichenberg would be pushed into the first round because a bunch of teams needed OL really badly. This didn't occur and we still chose Carman, which tells me the coaches just have that high of a grade on him, so I'm at peace with Chase/Carman.

To me, this entire draft hinges on Carman.

If he is what the coaches think he is (a day 1, quality starter at Guard who completely solves and solidifies a huge weakness on the oline), this draft is an A+.


If he struggles in his rookie year and doesn't win the starting job, is benched or, worse, struggles immensely but is kept in despite this, this draft will feel a lot more like a C or D. And God help the Bengals if they passed on Teven Jenkins because of injury concerns and then Carman has recurring injury issues from his back surgery in his rookie year.


Chase will almost certainly be an instant star and compete for rookie of the year.


Ossai, Sample and Shelvin were great value along the Dline that desperately needs a talent infusion but I really wish we had taken another O lineman in that 3rd to early 4th round range.


Smith seems like a really good prospect but is probably too light to do much in his rookie year but I have hopes for him seeing some time in 2022 if we don't re-sign Reiff.


And then the 5th round we got a good kicker who will become a day 1 starter ( just don't cut him because Seifert has a hot steak in the pre-season, you idiots) and some decent depth pieces in the 6th and 7th rounds.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(05-02-2021, 06:45 PM)TecmoBengals Wrote: For Team Sewell,

Remove your Sewell stuff from the forum signature options. He's a Lion.

[BenZoo2]

(05-02-2021, 05:32 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote:

Never tell me the odds


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