PFF: Cincinnati did exactly what it should have done

[*ochocincos*]

(05-05-2021, 11:33 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Cosmi yes.

Radunz is a possibility but needs development.

Spencer Brown is another guy that could but needs to develop from a smaller school.

Christensen has a decent chance as well.

Like I said the list of guys that can step in and play year one at tackle was short. Sewell, Darrisaw, Cosmi, Leatherwood. Then you have Christensen who might be ready, the guy from Stanford who might recover from injuries and play well. Eichenberg... eh we will see what happens.

Then there is a good list of guys who might develop into tackles with time like Radunz who could be amazing but you have to groom him, same as Brown.

That's the thing, you have at least a year of a stopgap in Riley Reiff starting to groom a RT.
So you could take the chance on Radunz or Brown and not worry as much.
They didn't have to be ready to start right away.

[OSUfan]

(05-05-2021, 05:35 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Sam Cosmi Rd 2 was available when Carman was selected. Dillon Radunz, Brady Christensen, and Spencer Brown were too.
You don't think any of those 4 will play OT in the NFL?

I see many talk about Cosmi but I am not a fan at all. Just does not play with real power. He was very low on my list of potential linemen to draft. I personally like D'Ante Smith more than Cosmi and I believe Smith has the potential to be a really special player. I would prefer Carman at RT over Cosmi.

[*ochocincos*]

(05-06-2021, 12:01 PM)OSUfan Wrote: I see many talk about Cosmi but I am not a fan at all. Just does not play with real power. He was very low on my list of potential linemen to draft. I personally like D'Ante Smith more than Cosmi and I believe Smith has the potential to be a really special player. I would prefer Carman at RT over Cosmi.

Power isn't really the MO of this offensive scheme.
It's about athleticism and movement.

If the Bengals were running a man/gap scheme where they were driving off the LOS, I'd agree. But I'm assuming it's true that Pollack wants athletic guys who can move because he wants to run a wide zone scheme.

[OSUfan]

(05-06-2021, 12:04 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Power isn't really the MO of this offensive scheme.
It's about athleticism and movement.

If the Bengals were running a man/gap scheme where they were driving off the LOS, I'd agree. But I'm assuming it's true that Pollack wants athletic guys who can move because he wants to run a wide zone scheme.

Okay I worded that inappropriately then. He does not show above average play strength. I was not talking schematics. Cosmi does not show natural strength in his play. D'Ante Smith at 297 displayed natural strength to go with above average athleticism.

Once you identify the defender in your zone you still need the natural strength to dispatch him.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(05-06-2021, 12:01 PM)OSUfan Wrote: I see many talk about Cosmi but I am not a fan at all. Just does not play with real power. He was very low on my list of potential linemen to draft. I personally like D'Ante Smith more than Cosmi and I believe Smith has the potential to be a really special player. I would prefer Carman at RT over Cosmi.

And you preferred Jawaan Taylor to Jonah Williams. You thought Ereck Flowers was a 10 year starter at LT. You wanted Dwayne Haskins. You wanted Nigel Bradham over Luke Kuechly. You claimed Bradham was a play maker and the only thing you saw Kuechly do was make tackles. LOL. Your player evaluations are nothing if not comedy gold.

[*ochocincos*]

(05-06-2021, 05:40 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: And you preferred Jawaan Taylor to Jonah Williams. You thought Ereck Flowers was a 10 year starter at LT. You wanted Dwayne Haskins. You wanted Nigel Bradham over Luke Kuechly. You claimed Bradham was a play maker and the only thing you saw Kuechly do was make tackles. LOL. Your player evaluations are nothing if not comedy gold.

Ereck Flowers was a lot better once he moved to OG.
Jawaan Taylor is more of a mauler and better in the run game than Jonah Williams, he's just not as good of a pass blocker.
There clearly is a preference for big mauling type guys vs more athletic guys who can move laterally.
Both work...in the right scheme.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(05-06-2021, 05:52 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Ereck Flowers was a lot better once he moved to OG.
Jawaan Taylor is more of a mauler and better in the run game than Jonah Williams, he's just not as good of a pass blocker.
There clearly is a preference for big mauling type guys vs more athletic guys who can move laterally.
Both work...in the right scheme.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/patriciatraina/2018/05/29/giants-head-coach-pat-shurmur-encouraged-by-ereck-flowers-effort-so-far/?sh=77bcb6192d92

Quote: In addition to leading the Giants in penalties every year, his 169 total pressures allowed are the most of any offensive tackle since 2015 according to Pro Football Focus.

The Giants passed on his 5th year option and released him before the end of his rookie contract after moving him to guard. He is currently on his 5th team since 2018.

http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-Fans-Speack-Challenge-as-well-Check-it-out?pid=699078&highlight=Jawaan+taylor#pid699078

Quote: 11: R1P11

OT JAWAAN TAYLOR 6'5" 312
FLORIDA


[Image: usatsi_9664705.jpg?w=1000&h=600&crop=1]
Meet your starting RT for the next 10 years. Taylor has shown Willie Anderson dominance with more athleticism. When you watch Taylor on film you see a guy that on occasion will use poor technique but while using poor technique still stonewalls the defender. Taylor gets the second level with fluidity and identifies next target.

Dayum! Willie Anderson with more athleticism.

[*ochocincos*]

(05-06-2021, 06:18 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: https://www.forbes.com/sites/patriciatraina/2018/05/29/giants-head-coach-pat-shurmur-encouraged-by-ereck-flowers-effort-so-far/?sh=77bcb6192d92


The Giants passed on his 5th year option and released him before the end of his rookie contract after moving him to guard. He is currently on his 5th team since 2018.

http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-Fans-Speack-Challenge-as-well-Check-it-out?pid=699078&highlight=Jawaan+taylor#pid699078


Dayum!  Willie Anderson with more athleticism.

Flowers performed decently well actually, just not lived up to his draft status and hype.

PFF ratings by year:
2016 - 69.7 overall (64.3 pass block, 73.2 run block)
2017 - 66.8 overall (70.4 pass block, 52.8 run block)
2018 - 65.4 overall (62.0 pass block, 63.9 run block)
2019 - 64.1 overall (69.0 pass block, 59.9 run block)
2020 - 65.9 overall (73.8 pass block, 58.1 run block)

Anything 60-69 is considered decent, anything 70-79 is considered good, and anything 80+ is considered elite.

As for Jawaan Taylor, you're referring to draft hype. But Taylor was a 2nd round pick. Anyone who said Willie Anderson comparison is talking about his absolute ceiling, not that he's there yet. Heck, he's only played in the league two years.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(05-06-2021, 06:49 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Flowers performed decently well actually, just not lived up to his draft status and hype.

PFF ratings by year:
2016 - 69.7 overall (64.3 pass block, 73.2 run block)
2017 - 66.8 overall (70.4 pass block, 52.8 run block)
2018 - 65.4 overall (62.0 pass block, 63.9 run block)
2019 - 64.1 overall (69.0 pass block, 59.9 run block)
2020 - 65.9 overall (73.8 pass block, 58.1 run block)

Anything 60-69 is considered decent, anything 70-79 is considered good, and anything 80+ is considered elite.

As for Jawaan Taylor, you're referring to draft hype. But Taylor was a 2nd round pick. Anyone who said Willie Anderson comparison is talking about his absolute ceiling, not that he's there yet. Heck, he's only played in the league two years.

First round draft bust turned journey man guard is significantly different than Top 10 franchise left tackle no matter how you sugar coat it.

[OSUfan]

(05-06-2021, 05:52 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Ereck Flowers was a lot better once he moved to OG.
Jawaan Taylor is more of a mauler and better in the run game than Jonah Williams, he's just not as good of a pass blocker.
There clearly is a preference for big mauling type guys vs more athletic guys who can move laterally.
Both work...in the right scheme.

He really is not worth your time. He has changed names on here multiple times because of being banned from the boards. He has not point other than trying to insult others. Trust me not worth your time.

[*ochocincos*]

(05-06-2021, 10:40 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: First round draft bust turned journey man guard is significantly different than Top 10 franchise left tackle no matter how you sugar coat it.

Did he live up to his draft round and expectations? Definitely not.
However, he has been solid.
He probably should have gone in Rd 3, but people thought he would be better than he was.
He's still been way better than Ogbuehi and Fisher, so I would have preferred him over either of them if he was available at 21.

[Bengalholic]

(05-05-2021, 09:20 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: I didn’t have a “pic” of Sewell or “noone” so you’re wrong as usual. I would have been fine with trading down and drafting Slater, Darrisaw, or Vera-Tucker, and accumulating multiple picks to address multiple positions. It was Tobin who was locked in on his “pic” of one of three players and refusing to view the draft any other way.

And if you’re idea of a great strategic plan is to draft a projection with weight and injury concerns in the second round and apply a one year bandaid to the RT position making it a draft need again next year then I don’t think you understand strategic thinking.

And he should have been, unless someone just offered them a crazy ass deal to move up. When you have the opportunity in front of you to land one of those 3, it would have been foolish to pass it up without incredible compensation.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-06-2021, 09:06 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: If Phillips can put it all together and stay healthy with better consistency he will be in line for a nice second contract, a la Carl Lawson.

I am sure he is well aware of that.  I loved how they used Phillips in the first Baltimore game.  That is probably what they see Hilton being each week, but Phillips had an insane game, statistically.  He is a total enigma, though, and you never seem to know which Phillips you are going to get.  Like the way WJIII was playing against Miami, and then other games he was a total dud.  Odd.  

Darius is very inconsistent. I think he just needs to stay healthy and it will come together for him.

He is definitely very talented. Ballhawk and was just a gamechanger in college and has shown flashes here.

High hopes for Phillips if Waynes sucks.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-06-2021, 05:40 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: And you preferred Jawaan Taylor to Jonah Williams. You thought Ereck Flowers was a 10 year starter at LT. You wanted Dwayne Haskins. You wanted Nigel Bradham over Luke Kuechly. You claimed Bradham was a play maker and the only thing you saw Kuechly do was make tackles. LOL. Your player evaluations are nothing if not comedy gold.

You sound very bitter...

[*SHRacerX*]

(05-05-2021, 10:26 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Here is what I would have done....

I would have given Zeitler a multi-year deal (3 years, $24+ mill) to get him to choose CIN over BAL.
That way, RG would have been set.

Going into the draft, the starting OL would have been Williams-Spain/XSF-Hopkins-Zeitler-Reiff

Then in the draft, I would have done the following (only replacing picks with guys who were taken after them):
1) Chase
2) Sam Cosmi, OT Texas - Serve as swing OT this year before taking over for Reiff next year
3) Ossai
4a) Cam Sample
4b) Daviyon Nixon, DT Iowa - I preferred more of a pass rushing IDL over a NT
4c) Imhir Smith-Marsette, WR Iowa - A guy to groom at WR4, can knock off Thomas or Tate
5) McPherson
6a) Elijah Mitchell, RB LA Tech - I liked Mitchell more than Evans as a RB3/4 based on the videos I watched of him in college
6b) Dazz Newsome, WR/PR UNC - I still think Bengals need a backup slot who can handle PR duties to replace Erickson. I do think there are guys on the roster who might be fine doing PR, but they really aren't experienced in PR.
7) Alaric Jackson, OL Iowa - Guy who I think has OT-OG versatility and has the skill set and potential to knock off Johnson from the roster.

EDIT - You may be asking, "What about a C?" Well, I really didn't like any C available on Day 3, so I would have had to replace Ossai, which I didn't want to do. Bengals could go out right now and sign Austin Reiter to hold down the C position if they wanted.

I was not a fan of Cosmi at all, especially given that we wanted him for the right side.  He's very quick and athletic but I think he would get tossed around in our division.  Carman's strengths play him in to being a guard and I love the idea of him being there and the fact that he can play tackle in a pinch is just gravy. 

Mitchell was a RB I really coveted, but I can't believe the athlete that Evans is, and one of his biggest strengths is in blitz pick up.  Alaric Jackson might be a lottery ticket for someone.  Dude decided to become a vegan and lost a lot of his weight and strength, then switched back but a little too late.  I actually like the kid we got in Rd 7 as he had some real production and seems like the kind of nuts-and-bolts guy that Simmons will love on teams and might contribute if others are injured.

[*SHRacerX*]

(05-05-2021, 02:28 PM)OSUfan Wrote:  In sports there is not a sure thing just projection. 

While this is true, if one can "project" an average hit rate of 50% in a draft, the Bengals upped their chanced by turning 7 picks in to 10 picks (I know the first one was for Dunlap, which they later moved up to a 6th rounder with the Finley trade).  I wasn't the least bit surprised that they traded back in Rd 2, but I was surprised at the haul they received for doing so.  

The fourth round additions of Shelvin and Smith were outstanding.  Created competition with rare, albeit raw, athletes.  It also allowed them to draft a day 1 starter in Mcpherson.  Smith may not play a snap this year, but he is a nice prospect that Pollack can work to develop.  

I see both Ossai and Sample getting plenty of snaps this year, with Carman and Chase being day 1 starters.  That means just about every draft pick would be on the field contributing and that would be quite a haul.  

Again, just projections, but I like what is being projected.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(05-05-2021, 05:35 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Sam Cosmi Rd 2 was available when Carman was selected. Dillon Radunz, Brady Christensen, and Spencer Brown were too.
You don't think any of those 4 will play OT in the NFL?

I think the real question is:  will they play OT their rookie season, and if not, will they be a solid option at G?  I have strong reservations on everyone on this list as a guard for year 1 aside from possibly Radunz.  Carman, however, projects as a very solid option at Guard.  I have stated a number of times that I would have much rather had Brown over Ossai to develop behind Reiff, but as it sits, I feel really good about Carman.  

[OSUfan]

(05-08-2021, 08:13 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: While this is true, if one can "project" an average hit rate of 50% in a draft, the Bengals upped their chanced by turning 7 picks in to 10 picks (I know the first one was for Dunlap, which they later moved up to a 6th rounder with the Finley trade).  I wasn't the least bit surprised that they traded back in Rd 2, but I was surprised at the haul they received for doing so.  

The fourth round additions of Shelvin and Smith were outstanding.  Created competition with rare, albeit raw, athletes.  It also allowed them to draft a day 1 starter in Mcpherson.  Smith may not play a snap this year, but he is a nice prospect that Pollack can work to develop.  

I see both Ossai and Sample getting plenty of snaps this year, with Carman and Chase being day 1 starters.  That means just about every draft pick would be on the field contributing and that would be quite a haul.  

Again, just projections, but I like what is being projected.  

I could not agree more and I believe you are taking my statement out of context. I like what they did in the draft. My statement was in regard to another stating the X player is a sure thing when that just is not a fact at all. 

By the way D'Ante Smith may be one of my favorite selections in this draft. I believe he has the makings of being a very special lineman.

[PDub80]

(05-06-2021, 09:58 AM)ochocincos Wrote: That's the thing, you have at least a year of a stopgap in Riley Reiff starting to groom a RT.
So you could take the chance on Radunz or Brown and not worry as much.
They didn't have to be ready to start right away.

PERFECT! So, you should be 100% pleased with Smith, the OT from ECU for that role.... a 2nd round rated prospect back in Feb.... who dominated the senior bowl 1 on 1s.... who has much better arm length, size, and feet for OT then Cosmi or Radunz. Not an immediate starter, but should quickly develop.

And, you should be 100% pleased with Carman, who projects to be a higher end Guard prospect than Cosmi or Radunz and WILL more than likely start the season at RG.

[*ochocincos*]

(05-08-2021, 07:53 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I was not a fan of Cosmi at all, especially given that we wanted him for the right side.  He's very quick and athletic but I think he would get tossed around in our division.  Carman's strengths play him in to being a guard and I love the idea of him being there and the fact that he can play tackle in a pinch is just gravy. 

Mitchell was a RB I really coveted, but I can't believe the athlete that Evans is, and one of his biggest strengths is in blitz pick up.  Alaric Jackson might be a lottery ticket for someone.  Dude decided to become a vegan and lost a lot of his weight and strength, then switched back but a little too late.  I actually like the kid we got in Rd 7 as he had some real production and seems like the kind of nuts-and-bolts guy that Simmons will love on teams and might contribute if others are injured.

Alaric Jackson went to the Rams as a UDFA. They think he has a good shot to make the team and also make an impact on gameday.