Dalton: The Point Guard

[masterpanthera_t]

(11-06-2015, 02:13 PM)bengalguy71 Wrote: Except when he plays Denver!

Too lazy to do it myself, but I would wonder if Brady has ever been held under 100 yards passing, except maybe in the playoff game that year they beat the Colts where Blount was running out of his mind.

Meh, one outlier doesn't change that perception.  There were playoff games when Brady has "felt" pressure when it didn't exist and a majority of time, when he is forced to move out of the pocket one can clearly see his only athletic strengths are his mind and his arm, not his feet.  It's not even a criticism of Brady, just an observation.  He makes things happen with his strengths and so does Rodgers or any other qb who has success.  Both Brady and Rodgers have had some unbelievable streaks going at one time or another, so it's pretty hard to say definitively one is better than the other as each guy has something that he's the best at doing.

On a separate discussion, I think while Brady is a great, great QB, he also has the one benefit that most others don't have : An all time HOF coach who knows how to attack defenses and how to defend offenses a whole lot better than most if not all of the coaches he coaches against.  

[clevelandsdad]

(11-06-2015, 02:23 PM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: Subjectively?  I've seen Dalton make plenty of "big-time" throws in his career.  

Cool dude! Me too!

I don't get what bone you're trying to pick at. All I have said is that he is playing better than ever because he seems to have settled down and has become a highly efficient distributor of the ball rather than trying to Rodgers.

Not taking away from his play. At all.

[*bengalfan74*]

(11-06-2015, 02:07 PM)masterpanthera_t Wrote: I will agree and disagree.  No one is as good at exploiting the defense and also at making accurate/precision power throws like Brady, when he has an extra second to set up.  But Rodgers is on an otherworldly level when it comes to making throws from off balance positions, or from across his body and also while on the move.  

Agree,

There's little doubt Brady is at the top at throwing from the pocket, exploiting defenses, great accuracy, throwing guys open, etc.

But there's also little doubt Rodgers is better at throwing on the run, moving around and making hard to do off balance throws and such. He's in a class by himself as that goes.

Brady can move and make things happen but he's not on the same level as Rodgers in that area.

[WhoDeyWho]

(11-06-2015, 02:26 PM)clevelandsdad Wrote: Cool dude! Me too!

I don't get what bone you're trying to pick at. All I have said is that he is playing better than ever because he seems to have settled down and has become a highly efficient distributor of the ball rather than trying to Rodgers.

Not taking away from his play. At all.

Not only is he playing "better than ever", numbers would suggest, he's playing just as good (if not better) than Brady and Rodgers in terms of completing difficult throws.  

That's all I'm saying.  

[clevelandsdad]

(11-06-2015, 02:29 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Agree,

There's little doubt Brady is at the top at throwing from the pocket, exploiting defenses, great accuracy, throwing guys open, etc.

But there's also little doubt Rodgers is better at throwing on the run, moving around and making hard to do off balance throws and such. He's in a class by himself as that goes.

Brady can move and make things happen but he's not on the same level as Rodgers in that area.

Great assessments. They're both incredible in their own respects.

I would still say Brady is better though. It's incredibly cliche, but he does way more with less.

[clevelandsdad]

(11-06-2015, 02:33 PM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: Not only is he playing "better than ever", numbers would suggest, he's playing just as good (if not better) than Brady and Rodgers in terms of completing difficult throws.  

That's all I'm saying.  

OK. I guess that's where we disagree. I don't think Dalton has played at their level yet. I think he can get there though. This year even.

[masterpanthera_t]

(11-06-2015, 02:35 PM)clevelandsdad Wrote: Great assessments. They're both incredible in their own respects.

I would still say Brady is better though. It's incredibly cliche, but he does way more with less.

I know this is going to sound like a nitpick, but I could argue Rodgers does way more with less.  Rodgers takes seemingly no-name, average talent receivers and makes stars out of them.  I've seen Brady do the same in the past.  I've also seen Green Bay not have good defenses and still win because of Rodgers and the same for Brady.  When Gronk is missing Brady seems very beatable.  Both guys can win even if they  have no running games.  The deciding factor for me is that while Brady has Belicheck, Rodgers has McCarthy.  McCarthy might, MIGHT be a great coach, I don't know.  But he is not as good as Belicheck and that advantage has always been with Brady.

[WhoDeyWho]

(11-06-2015, 02:38 PM)clevelandsdad Wrote: OK. I guess that's where we disagree. I don't think Dalton has played at their level yet. I think he can get there though. This year even.

Numbers would suggest otherwise.  

[anthonyf]

Hopefully he is over the Jon Kitna Syndrome , at least one horrible pass a game.

[clevelandsdad]

(11-06-2015, 02:40 PM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: Numbers would suggest otherwise.  

Numbers aren't everything. This is isn't baseball. I think the eyeball test is more important in football.

And these eyeballs tell me differently.

[bengalguy71]

(11-06-2015, 02:23 PM)masterpanthera_t Wrote: Meh, one outlier doesn't change that perception.  There were playoff games when Brady has "felt" pressure when it didn't exist and a majority of time, when he is forced to move out of the pocket one can clearly see his only athletic strengths are his mind and his arm, not his feet.  It's not even a criticism of Brady, just an observation.  He makes things happen with his strengths and so does Rodgers or any other qb who has success.  Both Brady and Rodgers have had some unbelievable streaks going at one time or another, so it's pretty hard to say definitively one is better than the other as each guy has something that he's the best at doing.

On a separate discussion, I think while Brady is a great, great QB, he also has the one benefit that most others don't have : An all time HOF coach who knows how to attack defenses and how to defend offenses a whole lot better than most if not all of the coaches he coaches against.  

Has Brady ever been held to under 100 yards passing?  II don't know. He's played a ton more games than Rodgers, so maybe he has.

[masterpanthera_t]

(11-06-2015, 02:44 PM)bengalguy71 Wrote: Has Brady ever been held to under 100 yards passing?  II don't know. He's played a ton more games than Rodgers, so maybe he has.

If this is a serious question, then the answer is I don't think he has.  If this question is instead intended to prove a point, then I will refer you to the first line of my post that you quoted.

[*rfaulk34*]

(11-06-2015, 01:23 PM)clevelandsdad Wrote: I feel like this is the best way to qualify Dalton's play this year. It's like he's Chris Paul out there, but his teammates are Durant, Melo, Curry, and Dirk.

He hasn't been the Jordan-esque scorer that Brady has been. He hasn't been something-out-of-nothing guy that Rodgers is. But he has been dishing the ball to all of our playmakers perfectly. Minimal mistakes, highly efficient. Hasn't had to make the big throws all the time. That's not who he is. He's like a more athletic yet slightly less accurate Drew Brees.

If he can play this style of football consistently, "Bad Andy" will be stuck in the closet all season. Of course, at some point he's going to have to make the big-time throws to win big games. But at this rate, he won't need to very often.

This gives me confidence that even in the clutch situations, Andy can come through. With such a stacked supporting cast, all he'll have to do is make a few big throws the rest of the season. And that might be enough to break through to the Super Bowl.

Excited to see what he can do the rest of the season. Especially in the playoffs!

This year, Brady has been just as much of a point guard. Dalton has a higher YPA, more 20+ and 40+ yd completions and a higher longest completion. Brady just has 31 more attempts in one less game. He's not going bombs away like he did with Moss, he's distributing the ball to his playmakers too.

[*bengalfan74*]

(11-06-2015, 02:35 PM)clevelandsdad Wrote: Great assessments. They're both incredible in their own respects.

I would still say Brady is better though. It's incredibly cliche, but he does way more with less.

Oh I think there's little doubt all things considered if you do a list of best QB's - right now. And Bradys not #1 ???

You're fooling yourself.

And I also believe Dalton is right there in the discussion with Brady, Rodgers, Manning - this season.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-06-2015, 01:55 PM)clevelandsdad Wrote: I never said Andy was dinking and dunking. And I don't think throwing the ball downfield is the same thing as a big-time throw.

A big-time throw to me is the throws that are the pinpoint, needle-threaded, and the seemingly-impossible-yet-just-made-possible throws. 

Of course, that definition is highly subjective. But still, how many throws like that have you seen Dalton make this year? Or ever?

I think the throw to Eifert against Seattle in the 4th quarter when Eifert dove for it is one. Maybe the last TD to Green in the Baltimore game. The deep shot to Marvin Jones against Buffalo was sick, but that seemed more like a great play by Marvin Jones.

Also, I'm not saying Andy can't make these throws. I believe he can. The point is that he doesn't have to anymore.

Yep....and he hit a pretty tight window to Eifert on one of those TDs in the first half.

[clevelandsdad]

(11-06-2015, 02:50 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Oh I think there's little doubt all things considered if you do a list of best QB's - right now. And Bradys not #1 ???

You're fooling yourself.

And I also believe Dalton is right there in the discussion with Brady, Rodgers, Manning - this season.

Agreed, except for Manning. Dude's a shell of what he was. 

Dalton's balling out there. That's for sure.

[WhoDeyWho]

(11-06-2015, 02:57 PM)clevelandsdad Wrote: Agreed, except for Manning. Dude's a shell of what he was. 

Dalton's balling out there. That's for sure.

Manning's nowhere to be seen on that list this year.  He and Luck lead the league in picks.  

[*bengalfan74*]

(11-06-2015, 02:57 PM)clevelandsdad Wrote: Agreed, except for Manning. Dude's a shell of what he was. 

Dalton's balling out there. That's for sure.

You're right, included Manning from force of habit. Not sure he can continue turning in performances like he did against the Packers all season long.

I wouldn't doubt at all that this is Mannings last hurrah.

[XenoMorph]

(11-06-2015, 03:03 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: You're right, included Manning from force of habit. Not sure he can continue turning in performances like he did against the Packers all season long.

I wouldn't doubt at all that this is Mannings last hurrah.

even that preformance was what 340 yards 0 TDs 1 INT

[Joelist]

Also just last night Andy dropped a dime on Eifert for a TD when flushed from the pocket and running to his left. Sidearm no less.